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  #11  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:02 PM
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Hello! I've read this thread with interest, since I am a new poly with a mono husband. My husband asked about being given a veto early on, but we talked it out and agreed it wouldn't be fair for any partner of mine to be disposable on what he thought. He isn't in my relationship - I am. Why should he have the ability to close my heart off? Emotions aren't like a light switch. He decided instead that he trusted me and my judgement. My advice would be to definitely address that issue. Also, no vaginal penetration? That smacks of women as property type of thinking. My body, my rules. But if you are willing to submit to that sort of limitation, good for you, I guess. Honestly, those rules say to me that your husband has a long way to go with accepting you as poly. Keep the communication with him going, and good luck!
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2013, 11:51 PM
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Although you can't deal with everything that *might* come up, you do want to have some kind of provisions in place for what's *likely* to come up.

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"My feeling with potential partners is that there are so many ways to give and receive pleasure that this [PIV] restriction shouldn't be a hindrance. Am I being naive?"
Seems to me like it's really up to you and your partners what is/isn't good enough. I guess just about anyone would want to experience intercourse eventually, but that's really just me taking a shot in the dark and not at all accounting for how very different various people are. Certainly hand or oral favors tend to go a long ways towards making everyone happy.

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Quote:
"My personal rule is that 'A' and I will be on the same page before I allow myself to become physically involved with another man."
Oh ... aren't you and A already on the same page? "Same page" as I understand it is a common understanding of what's going on and why. Is there something missing in those terms, or is my definition off?

I guess you and A have an "uncomfortable agreement?" Doesn't sound like either of you is getting *quite* what you would have wanted out of the situation.

I'm pretty sure A isn't ready to meet M or T right now ...
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2013, 02:52 AM
PolyMC PolyMC is offline
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I know we can't have a contingency for *any* possible situation, but I've been almost bombarding "A" with a lot of "what if's" (and he's been doing the same). I'll admit that his mind is a lot more open than I would have expected, but he does have a ways to go before he's ok with the idea of other men in my life on a romantic/sexual level. We have been doing *A LOT* of talking/arguing/compromising over the past few weeks as you can imagine.

"A" understands that my brain is wired for poly and his for monogomy -- he always knew, from the first we met, that I was very "different" and more "unconventional" than the women he'd dated in the past, and universes different than his ex-wife. We just really never knew about this particular aspect of my personality until the circumstances forced it to emerge. (And it may now help me to understand a little better why I always seemed to be a bit promiscuous in my early adulthood) "A" also knows that nothing will ever diminish my love for him and we both agree that we couldn't have a more perfect partnership in every other respect--we really do have an honest "yin and yang" thing going on. As far as both understanding what it means for me to be poly and how it affects our marriage, we are getting there. We know we need to find some common ground we agree on somewhere between me saying "This is the way it is, deal with it" and "I'll remain mono to make you happy" -- either of these extremes will result in one of us being miserable. We'll get there, it's just not an easy journey. Perhaps when I said that "A" and I need to be on the "same page" I may have meant that we have a more balanced comfort level with a new arrangement--we have a ways to go to get there. In a way, the distance between me and both "M" and "T" have been a bit of a blessing in that the visits need to be carefully planned and that gives more time for "A" and me to have some meaningful discussions.

This may surprise you guys, but it was me who initially suggested the p.i.v. restriction as the "line in the sand" and I didn't have a problem with it (but I'll admit that after getting into the discussion here, my position might evolve...or reverse). It has never been an issue with "M" since at this point ours is a pretty platonic albeit very close relationship. Obviously "T" would prefer that it wasn't a restriction, but is willing to work within the parameters of the agreement to prevent problems in my marriage leading to strains in our relationship. Of course we haven't gotten together again in person yet (that's planned for the Spring) so it's easier to agree to those terms from a safe distance. "M" is a five-hour drive away and "T" is about 8-9 hours away. "A" would be content if these loving relationships remained strictly emotional -- it's potentially adding the component of physical intimacy that is the basis of these discussions.

Unless "A" has a profound moment of enlightenment in the near future, I don't see him ever being comfortable meeting either "M" or "T". As long as he comes to a point where trusts my judgement, that shouldn't be an issue should it? I never had the illusion that everyone would be "one big happy family" -- I'll just be happy if they all don't hate each other.
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2013, 11:48 AM
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Some people like to meet their metamours. I do. It helps to be in the same room with this other partner. Sometimes you can build up some sort of scary idea of the greatness of your partner's other partner, and meeting them can diffuse that: Oh, they are just another human being, with their own set of flaws, not a perfect Hollywood/fashion model angelic being to whom I could never measure up.

It can diffuse jealous and envy. Sometimes, and it's rather often, I'd estimate at least 50% of the time, you might actually feel a bond and a budding friendship with your metamour.

But as you say, your potentials live hundreds of miles away and don't plan to visit YOU, just you go to them. So, your h won't be meeting them. He could chat them, email them, something like that, just to get to know a little, firsthand, about these men that like his wife so much. That is, if your potential bfs want to chat with your husband also!

I have to say, your h is very caring and trusting to be cool with you emailing T several times a day. My ex was always so jealous, he would not have been cool with me doing something like that with another guy. (My poly gf and bf, of course, have no issue with me talking to, even lusting for, anyone else.)

I'd have to say, suggesting and upholding the no PIV is not something I'd ever do. As a poly woman, I need to be able to "do what comes naturally" sexually, with any other partner. I don't hold out PIV as sacred. I know some people have limitations. Some won't even kiss another partner! Some will reserves anal sex for their primary. Etc. I'd just hate to be in bed with someone and have to keep telling them, verbally or non-verbally, no we can't do that. One guy I dated told me he only kisses his gf. I found that so odd and off-putting. We are having sex...can I kiss your neck? Your nipple? Your cheek? I can suck your cock but not your tongue? Ugh. I stopped dating him once he told me he and his gf had made that agreement. It just seems so disrespectful. It definitely puts your husband on a pedestal and your new lover on a lower level of respect and love.

So, with T, can he slide his cock between your wet thighs, between your labia, but stop short of actually getting it in your vag? Or does the cock stay away from your vag completely? It just all seems so awkward.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2013, 01:50 PM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Hello PolyMC! I am also in upstate NY (waves!!). Welcome to Polyworld!

I will share some of my own experience with you, as there are some similarities between what you are dealing with and what I have had going on in my life.

I was already poly when I met my husband, now married almost 18 years. I made it clear to him (I thought) that I was poly, and while I was willing to be mono for a time for us to establish our own relationship ( I was inclined to do that myself, not just his request), after a couple of years and one kid I was ready for more.

He has always had trouble "sharing". Not just me, he has trouble sharing things like ice cream too. Childhood stuff, Im sure. But as I am bisexual, I agreed for years to pursue only women and not men. This was easier for him to deal with, and it is likely because of the no PIV potential...

This past winter, I reconnected with my high school sweetie and BFF. It was instantaneous, our chemistry has always been high together, and the few times we have seen each other over the years has always been something we both looked forward to intensely. I was his first love.

This was the "dealbreaker" relationship for my hubby and I. When I realized this was happening, we had to deal with the fact that I was going to be in relationship with another man. Which was very hard for him. Plus, there was an element of "there is no choice here, I am doing this." Which was very hard for me to say to him, and we spent many hours talking it out, crying it out, and my BF was very patient and understanding about it all. I realized that he was also my first love, and we have always loved each other, and always will. It is a lifelong connection that neither of us will walk away from.

What I have tried to explain to my husband is that, the whole point of poly (for me anyway) is that I can have them both. Or more. He sometimes gets caught up in the "you will like him better" or "he will do XXX better than I do, and you will want to be with him" mentality. Which is a mono thinking, that I would choose one over the other. I CANNOT choose one over the other. I LOVE them both. As hard as things are, I do not want to leave my husband. I love him and our family. What I DO want, is for BF to be part of our family. Someday maybe that will happen. But, what hubby is still learning is that I dont have to leave him to enjoy my other partner. We still share our connection. What it isnt, is exclusive. That's all.

We also did the "No PIV sex" for a while. We held out for 8 months. Which was really really hard. I was "done" waiting for him long before that, but we did not have the opportunity to be together all summer because of kids and other family stuff. Now that we are over that hurdle, we are now getting down to the real work of poly, the acceptance of the reality of this lifestyle, all the ups and downs, and all the joys as well. And my husband is learning that I can be with someone else I love, and have a sexual relationship with him, and I will still come home and snuggle with him, have sex with him, and have our family.

My advice to you would be to take it slow, and talk a lot. If you and T are okay with keeping things the way you describe for a while, then that may be a gentler transition for you all. But know that it may become hard to stop yourselves after a while. And, it should be your decision what you do in your relationships. Having your spouse enforce "rules" about what you can and cannot do with someone else, when he is not even around, is controlling. It may make him feel safe in the short run, but the sooner you can get past that the more genuine your interactions will be with both men.

Good luck to you!
Willow
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:52 PM
Cherub Cherub is offline
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Hello PolyMC, from another UpState New Yorker (Capital Region). Is it just me or is our area very well represented poly-wise?

Welcome to the forum and best wishes on your situation.

Im finding this discussion very helpful in that my wife of 18 years has recently told me of her desire to be poly with another man, while I still feel mono. That revelation came about two months ago, and I can relate to what your husband is possibly feeling. Thankfully from my p.o.v. her poly start has been slow as her first date last weekend stood her up. I confess that I had mixed feelings about things actually getting started so quickly. In the end my only hope was that if the new guy was a bad fit that it be apparent early, which I think that it was.

At least in your case you know M and T well and have been having open conversations about this with your husband. FWIW, Im finding that it is one thing to consider her polyship(s) as a theoretical exercise, but am concerned that the reality of it could be much more challenging and difficult to accept. To that end, shes told me not to worry since she so prioritizes our long standing relationship that if I told her it were more than I could handle, that she would end her polyship(s) to focus on us. The experiences of some other her suggests that should we reach this point, that her actually ending her polyship(s) may not be her priority in the reality of then, than while it is theoretical now.

Best wishes,
-Cherub
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:52 PM
PolyMC PolyMC is offline
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Wow, again I am in awe of all the great input I'm getting. Already you guys have made me re-think some of my own pre-conceived notions of what it means to be poly as well as having a partner who is mono. This is definitely an education process with a huge learning curve!

I know it's a bit surprising that I would be the one to set the p-i-v restriction with the secondaries, so I guess a little background is in order. Both "A" and I grew up in strict religious households (he was a fundamentalist Christian--I can't remember which specific sect and I was raised Roman Catholic--complete with 9 years of parochial school). As you can imagine this whole poly concept flies in the face of what we were each taught and believed about relationships and marriage while we were growing up. To complicate things even further, I had no idea until very recently that I am a poly -- when we married we were both mono and promised each other lifelong exclusivity in our vows. It wasn't until I Googled "Can I love more than one man" that I found a plethora of information about a lifestyle that even has a unique name to it! I knew it wasn't "swinging" as these growing feelings are not just desire for a casual sexual hookup. I love all three of these men very deeply, which from my understanding of swinging is a big no-no.

Anyways, part of the process of *my* coming to terms with the potential of being intimate with a man other than my husband, without the pejorative label of "cheating" or "adultery" slapped on it, was asking myself what is it about "A" that makes me want to continue to stay married to him while pursuing other intimate and loving relationships. It was the realization that there is very little chance I'd ever again meet such a perfect counterpart to *me*. As the cliche goes, neither one of us is perfect, but we're perfect for each other. And of course neither of us wants to end the marriage--we want to remain life partners forever. My still-new-to-this-idea perception was, that being my life partner (even in the legal sense), I *had* to put him on the proverbial pedestal above any others...show him that he is still my #1. And the first thing I thought of was to allow him something that is uniquely *his* (although I hadn't perceived this as possessiveness at the time) -- something I wouldn't share with any other potential partner. The first thing that came to mind was the p.i.v. sex -- perhaps part of my rationalizing mind thought that if I didn't do *that* with any other partner, then you really can't call it "adultery" can you (see the Catholic influence?) But of course after all the lively discussion over the past couple of days, I am able to see the flaws in my logic, despite the realization that this updated position of mine sends "A" and me back to the proverbial drawing board with our negotiations--I keep wanting to change the terms, dammit! Or maybe I'm beginning to understand and appreciate just how much work and commitment it takes to make a poly relationship work so that all of my partners feel that they are *the* special one in my life--which they are--all of them.

You guys helped me to understand that by doing that and imposing this "no p.i.v. sex rule", I am really disrespecting the other two men I purport to love by throwing it at them and expecting them to comply without question. And then Magdlyn pointed out the proverbial (and pardon the hell out of this pun) "slippery slope" of defining specifically what's in and what's out. And of course I was trusting that I'd always be able to pull myself back from the edge of plummeting into the "danger zone". Short of wearing a chastity belt, that probably takes more willpower than I'd ever see in my lifetime.

Yikes, things got complicated REALLY fast!

Last edited by PolyMC; 10-30-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:34 AM
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I can see trying the no-PIV rule for awhile, but check in with A frequently to find out when he thinks he might be able to let that rule go. Basically, as soon as he thinks he can stand the change, I would implement it. As shown in the other posts, a no-PIV rule can get complicated fast.

I sympathize with how hard it is to overcome religious conditioning. I was raised staunch Mormon and my brother-husband was raised staunch Catholic and ideas like polyamory were just so far out of the realm of thinkability that both us guys had to move through some major personal trauma before we could finally stand to share a woman (and even then, we had years of drama to slog through before our V relationship really found its sea legs).

Do the best you can. The LDR factor with M and T does give you time to think (and talk with your husband about all this stuff).

Regards,
Kevin T.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:59 PM
PolyMC PolyMC is offline
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Default Discussions Have Heated Up... :(

Things indeed got complicated pretty fast once I broached the idea with "A" of relaxing the "no PIV rule". Not quite a total meltdown (which wouldn't have surprised me if that happened) but I think we may have stumbled on something that's very sacred to him to the point where he's willing to take a strong stance -- and I really don't think it has anything to do with "possessiveness" on his part (that's not in his nature) -- it's just something he never in a million years dreamed he'd have to consider "sharing" with other men. Needless to say the communication has become even more stressful for both of us (and the actual "PIV cliff" hasn't even been anywhere in sight yet, except in my always-anticipating mind!) and sometimes has me wishing I hadn't opened this Pandora's box. But I did and that can't be changed. And still we communicate...that will never change as far as I'm concerned.

I did a little bit of introspection on the PIV thing and began to mentally recall my past dating life. I ended up having sex with a lot of guys I dated, but very few on the "first date" -- and those were mostly during my "one night stand" experimentation phase (which lasted only a few weeks if I recall). The results of the "getting to know you" stage usually was a good indicator if they were to become bed partners. In other words, I wasn't into having sex on the first date back then and that mentality has not changed ("A" and I dated a few weeks before that was included--by the time we were ready we already knew we were soul-mates). So in anticipation of my future poly dates, why should those be any different? "T" and I knew each other 25 years ago -- a lot of time and growth apart from each other has happened in the meantime so in a way we really don't know each other anymore and would have to spend time getting re-acquainted. (And if "M" ever decides he has feelings for me too, yeah we're really close as BFFs, but don't know each other as potential lovers.) So I came to the conclusion/decision that, as in my dating past, there will need to be an acquainting/reacquainting period before the PIV thing is even put on the table as a possibility. I don't think that's disrespectful to either "T" or "M" since I'd be doing the same thing if I was single, despite the distance which makes frequent dates impossible. And the promise of "no initial PIV" should help "A" to relax a little knowing this isn't an imminent event and there's still time for him to wrap his head around the poly thing. If potential PIV re-enters that radar at some point down the road, "A" and I will be back in negotiations again, except this time I will have input from all involved before any subsequent decisions are made. Another thing I thought of, and would have taken place anyway if I was single, is that any sex that might happen with secondary partners would always be done "safely" -- with an exemption of this for "A" (he's more receptive to that idea).

I probably should consider moving this thread to the blog section as my last few entries seem to be chronicling events in my emersion process, some of which have been a bit cathartic.

Anyhow, thanks for reading and once again for all the great input I've had from those of you who've had experience with similar situations. There is no one in my immediate support system, other than "A" who's involved, that I can confide in about this...I haven't been "outed" yet and not sure that will happen except for those directly involved. But that could just be where I am right now in the process.

Oh, and we both joined the Yahoo group focused on monos who have issues with their partners being poly. That was a definite positive step.

Last edited by PolyMC; 11-01-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2013, 05:42 AM
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Re:
Quote:
"I really don't think it has anything to do with 'possessiveness' on his part (that's not in his nature) -- it's just something he never in a million years dreamed he'd have to consider 'sharing' with other men."
Ah, but "sharing" and "possessiveness" are essentially opposite words. Maybe it's not normally in his nature to feel possessive, but maybe he has stumbled into one of the few things he does feel possessive over. If it were not so, then sharing this would by definition come easily for him.

Like jealousy, possessiveness often has to do with some kind of fear. Fear than M and/or T will be better lovers, fear that you'll leave him for them, fear that you'll spend more and more time with them and start neglecting him (not possible with the LDR's but fears aren't very rational and can conjure up all kinds of possibilities). Fear that his PIV with you will never be as good after M and/or T have had it. And so on.

Re:
Quote:
"Needless to say the communication has become even more stressful for both of us, and sometimes has me wishing I hadn't opened this Pandora's box."
Sure, you might have left the box closed, wondered for the rest of your life what was in it, and probably built up some subconscious resentment over never feeling free to open the box.

Taking it all slow, and keeping the communication channels open with A, are your two most important strategies. Compromise when you can, but only with compromises that you can live with.

Hope the mono/poly Yahoo group helps. Also I can't remember if you guys ever tried seeing a poly-friendly counselor? something to think about.

Regards,
Kevin T.

P.S. Moving the thread to the blog section requires mod/admin intervention I believe. For that you would check out the Moderators and administrators page.
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