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  #11  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:59 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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I've always been accepting of the idea for others but knew it was never me.
This sounds like a personal limitation. Which is totally fine to have. People come as they come, they are as they are.

You have a strong preferences for your relationships to be monoamorous and monogamous. The one and only. There is NOTHING WRONG with that preference!

So how does you dating outside your preference pool and you ignoring a personal limit help you attain what you most want?

It doesn't. Strike one with him. He's not compatible in relationship configuration wants from the beginning.

You date anyway. He's been abusive to you and you broke up once already. Strike two. Nobody deserves abuse!

Wearing down your boundaries so he gets what he wants from you? That is not kind loving behavior. You could check the tactics list to see if anything else has been going on. Maybe it has and you are not mentioning it out loud or to yourself. Again, nobody deserves to be abused.

You say you want to take a cold hard look at your baggage -- could start here reading stages 1 - 5 with leaving abuse. Guard against getting sucked back into the drama. Could guard against "sweetie pie honey bunch" sweet talkin' -- you've already walked away once for A REASON.

Quote:
When it felt like it was a choice between being with him and my sanity and security, being with him won.
So you put YOU meeting your own needs for health on the back burner. How did you come to choose that? Promises of a better tomorrow?

The cycle of abuse includes a honeymoon period of fake promises to change. But over time the abuse circle comes back around faster and faster. Are you aware of that?

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I just don't know how to give us both the utmost sense of happiness and security when all talk of compromise had brought nothing but heartache and resentment.
If all you experience here is heartache and resentment? Loving him feels hard and like you have to choose between being with him and your own well being? Limit reached. You could choose what is healthy for you in the long term.

Could stop signing up for more and don't be with him. Choose YOU.

It may be hard to FEEL, but the actions for your behavior are pretty clear. Being here sucks? HIs behaviors don't change? Don't be here then. Get out of the way. Love him from a safer distance, but know he's not a good partner up close, allow yourself to be open to loving someone new later down when you have healed. But could reach toward that healing process.

Be very careful and make a safety plan if you have to. Leaving an abusive person is sometimes very scary/ hard. Talk to your mom straight up about what you are experiencing and ask for guidance and/or access to local resources if you need them.

Yes, breaking up is yucky to feel. But not all choices in life are "win or lose" -- some are "this choice stinks. That choice stinks. Which one stinks the LEAST then?"

I think breaking up and allowing yourself time to process and heal is less stinky that staying here. That way you could give YOU a shot at dating again when ready to find a partner who is more compatible with your values. Someone who does not abuse you. Someone who is ADDING to your sense of well being and to your "secure" and to your "happy" buckets. Rather than taking away.

You deserve to be treated well in loving and kind ways. Not in less than kind and less than loving ways.

You are 20 years old. He may be "a" love of your life. Is he a healthy/safe love to be loving up close? Doesn't sound like it.

I get that if he is among the first loves, it could feel very intense and you could not imagine feeling that way again. But could give yourself a shot at what you really want most in relationship. It is not to be found here.

Life is long. There are many loves out there. Could give yourself a shot at experiencing healthy, loving, kind relationship. Not drama fest.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-23-2013 at 01:39 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:10 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
We both agreed there was abuse from both sides regarding the issue of poly
How does the philosophy that love is not a scarce resource and that efforts to restrict it should be avoided causing abuse?

What happened that is abuse? And... since you (and your partner) agree that there has been abuse... why the heck are you continuing down this road? Polyamory, loving multiple people, caused abuse? I really don't understand how you have come to this conclusion and I think it's important for you to look a bit deeper into your assertion.

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Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
When it felt like it was a choice between being with him and my sanity and security, being with him won. I choose to be in this mess, to try being with him
That's your choice; as self-admittedly destructive as it is.

Personally I think it's good to know what your priorities are, even if they happen to be acquiring as much pain as possible.

Good luck with your decision to live a life of pain
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2013, 02:29 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default I can't speak for the OP

but abuse does happen among all demographics, it isn't the theory that love is not scarce that is abusive, nor does it have to do with basic poly principles, however there are numerous abuses that take place which are specific to certain sects of polyamory

Once a person is labeled a cowboy or a cowgirl, no matter if it is true or not, is one situation where people justify abusive behavior by rationalizing that they deserve it.

Some polyships, in the name of openess or being able to trust those you are involved with, allow others to have their passwords so that they can read any email of messenger communications, which isn't wrong, but without letting others know by saying "by the way, we share an e-mail account, so just know that I might not be the only one reading our conversation" is not exactly respecting a person's privacy, although that is not black and white in regards to abuse until one begins corresponding with multiple people but under the impression he is messaging one person's private account. Things like changing fonts or variation in the way you end or start a message does not qualify as letting them know they are not corresponding with who they believe they are.

When the person believes they are corresponding with someone they care deeply about, yet their metamour is the one who responds, that is abusive behavior. Even if you don't mind being mislead and honesty and clarity is not important to you, treating others like that without their permission is abusive unless they desire to be treated like that. Since most people -- in general -- don't like being mislead, pretending it was an honesty mistake I would find rather hard to believe.

They way to identify the worst types of abusers is to see how their behavior changes when they believe the cannot get caught -- and therefore will not be held accountable for their actions. Abusers would never abuse others if they were held accountable for their abusive behavior, so they rely to a large degree on subtlety and anonymity, and they will continue to abuse so long as they believe they can get away with it.

I can only speak for myself but if the only reason a person does not commit crimes, is because of a large police presence, I would waste my time with such a person as how are they going to behave the minute the police are gone?

They take advantage of situations as they present themselves which is a red flag to me, I would rather become involved with those who I trust not to abuse another human because it is against their belief system, and not because they won't get caught and certainly not because they simply disagree with another's poly dynamic.

there are many people who would rather poly remain underground and as secretive as possible, because that is the number one way abusers get away with abuse, by keeping secrets that go beyond person privacy

these are just a few of ways abuse happens
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2013, 03:24 AM
keymasterryuko keymasterryuko is offline
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How do you get rid of jealousy? That has to be a good way to start.
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2013, 04:10 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default A good place to start

is being involved with respectful people. Respectful people take their partners feelings into consideration, and when they decide to do whatever they are going to do they are honest about it and honest about their intentions.

There is nothing you can do to help with jealousy issues if your partners are not considerate or your metamours are assholes, as in those cases it's often a matter of living in denial or the dark of don't ask don't tell. If you are that much in love with people whom it is going to be very difficult -- if not impossible -- to have a healthy poly relationship, yet you are adamant about seeing it through til it damages your relationship beyond repair, at the very least you need to be able to agree on safe sex practices so that you can realistically make smart decisions about your physical health in regards to diseases.

Some people are what is often referred to as veterans, and can deal quite well with the emotional hardships that most people face in polyamory. But you will want to avoid those who get into pissing contests about how "OK" they are with the most difficult aspects of non-monogamy. There are also those who had a real hard time themselves dealing with things like jealousy and every other obstacle that most be overcome, so they may not be very sympathetic to you having to deal with it.

And they are not wrong for not wanting to deal with your insecurities any more than is absolutely necessary. Some people subscribe to the theory that there are very minor things that your partners and metamours can do that will make a dramatic difference in your ability to deal with poly difficulties. But there too, there are some who firmly believe that doing so will only cause more trouble in the long run.

You need to find to out what works for you, but it doesn't sound like tough poly love is going to be the solution to your poly problems.
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  #16  
Old 10-24-2013, 05:42 AM
london london is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
How do you get rid of jealousy? That has to be a good way to start.
You have to beat down that core part of you that wants monogamy. Kill it dead. After that, you should be numb and apathetic enough not to care. You'll also feel devalued, miserable and not quite yourself though.
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  #17  
Old 10-24-2013, 06:01 AM
Dstone Dstone is offline
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Default Jealoucy sometimes sneeks up on us.

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Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
How do you get rid of jealousy? That has to be a good way to start.
Not sure how to get 'Rid' of jealousy, but I only once in my life had true feelings of jealousy. I had a girlfriend who wanted so bad, to be with 2 guys at the same time. She Never experienced it, and I gave that to her. I got a friend to come over one night, and didn't tell him what we were up to. We snuck off into the bedroom and started making love, rather loudly, and he went around the corner of the bedroom to 'Listen In'. It turned her on and drove her nuts, knowing he was likely shagging it to our sounds, so I told her to quietly go out to him, and around the corner, and 'Help him' a bit before bringing him into the room with us. That way he wasn't thrown into the situation all at once...

What she didn't know, and I never told her, was that I followed her out, peeking around the corner, to watch them go at it a bit, and to see the look of surprise on his face. I waited a few minutes, and peeked out when I heard him moan a bit, the thought of watching her go at it with another guy, like a 'Live Porn' scene, but when I looked, she was sucking on him wildly, and enjoying herself greatly.

At that moment, I suddenly, and without warning, instead felt an immense wave of jealousy in its full fury. It came from nowhere, and was totally unexpected. I had to remind myself more than once, that I was the one that sent her to him, and tried to swallow it. It was difficult, but I did so, and looked out again. This time, she saw me look out, so i gestured for her to bring him in. I jumped back into bed, and she jumped on top of me, bringing him to her, him standing up. We all had a great night, and the three-some we enjoyed was really wonderful.

We had 3-way sex many, many times after that, and I never felt that way again, but never forgot it. I did not ask or expect that feeling to overwhelm me, but it did that night. I did however learn to get a hold of myself and shove it aside, because If I hadn't, I think things would have been disastrous for all of us. The most intense 'turn-ons' in my life were when we were 3-way-ing it. It is certainly an experience worth perusing, even if it was 2 straight guys and one girl.

Just some thoughts on it,...Dstoned

Last edited by Dstone; 10-24-2013 at 06:04 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:44 PM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
How do you get rid of jealousy? That has to be a good way to start.
My way of having dealt with jealousy is by having gotten to a place internally where I would be completely OK with being alone. I much prefer to have people in my life and I treasure them greatly. But there is no fear in them finding someone else because I'd rather someone be with me because they truly want to be rather than because they feel that they need to be. I know that every day my partners chose to be with me and that's comforting.
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  #19  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keymasterryuko View Post
How do you get rid of jealousy? That has to be a good way to start.
I've had to knock it down to *why* I'm upset - what I feel I'm missing, or what I feel I need. Saying that, though, is MUCH simpler than doing it, and it's definitely taken time and practice to be able to do that. I have revisited the same thing over and over again, thinking I've gotten to the meat of the issue, but really just peeling a layer off each time.

And, for me, it hasn't all gone away. I still have particular trigger items that I'm envious of, that due to circumstances aren't going away any time soon (being able to spend time with P's friends and family - M1 is close, location-wise, to them, and has a flexible schedule, while neither is true for me, so she ends up with more of P's family/friend time, and I tend to feel invisible at times). However, I've gotten to a point of understanding what it is that bothers me, rather than "I hate this, this sucks!" and we all know it will keep coming up from time to time until we can find a way for me to be more closely integrated into his life.

So, to get rid of jealousy? It's a lot of self-introspection, a lot of work, and a lot of time. It will not happen right away, and it will probably frustrate the hell out of you at some point. You're the only one who can decide if it's worth it for you to continue, or if it's too much.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids, two cats, one house with many projects.
Chops (previously 'P'): My partner of ~3 years. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena (previously M1): Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa (previously AG): Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

My navel-gazing blog thread:
A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2013, 03:00 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Not just with jealousy, but being plagued by any unwanted emotion, I ask myself what am I afraid of? That is usually a great starting point. But don't take the first answer that comes to mind. So for example, maybe your answer is "I mad afraid he will leave me." Okay. Why are you afraid of that? Fear of being alone? Fear that it means you're not good enough? Fear of something else?

I don't have much issues with jealousy, because I am not afraid of someone wanting to be with someone different than me. I like myself. However, the unique me has a certain set of qualities (I can't have all of them). The other loves in my guy's life have different qualities. He enjoys mine and he enjoys hers. Why wouldn't I be okay with that?

And while it is counter-intuitive in a mono dominant culture permitting variety often elevates appreciation of everyone's qualities. As a simplistic example, my favorite color is purple. But if purple was the only color I ever saw? Now imagine seeing purple against a background of teal, yellow, orange. I love those color colors, but now purple is particularly outstanding.
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