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  #31  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:59 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I am sorry you are having these conflicts with Whip about parties.... and also him considering the military and moving away! That sucks.

I am sure you are very attractive though.

HUGS
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  #32  
Old 10-19-2013, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I am sure you are very attractive though.
Yes, she is - I've met her and can say so!

YES, Opal, you are pretty and have nothing to worry about. It was a long time ago, but I still remember your smile! We went to that poly cocktail party and you had no problem talking to people. You looked great, and your personality sparkled. I recall several people going over to talk to you!

I can totally relate to the self-deprecating thoughts that create a vicious circle - when I want to meet people but feel icky in some way, how I feel about myself creates this energy around me that prevents people from approaching, or if they do, my insecurities repel them. It is the feeling down about ourselves that is unattractive, nothing else!

I tell this to friends sometimes - just before gong to sleep at night, make a gratitude list. At least 10 things you are grateful for in your life. Do that every night and look at it in the morning. It does help to get me out of a funk when I do that!

Also know that these jealousies and fears you have are just indicators of where to look deeper within yourself. These are challenges and you will become stronger and more confident once you look at them, see where they come from, and step back from attaching any power to these feelings.
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  #33  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:44 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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@Magdyln, @NYCindie, thank you for the kind words. They helped. I am doing better. Nothing has changed really but I feel more capable of dealing with my emotions as they come up. And Whip continues to be open to talking and he keeps me up in the loop on his interests and partners. That helps me immensely.

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
YES, Opal, you are pretty and have nothing to worry about. It was a long time ago, but I still remember your smile! We went to that poly cocktail party and you had no problem talking to people. You looked great, and your personality sparkled. I recall several people going over to talk to you!
Aww, thank you NYCindie! That was fun, wasn't it? I didn't notice people coming over to talk to me but, then again, I never do. Kinda bad at that sort of thing.
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2013, 12:56 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I've recently realized that I often feel lonely when some need or want is not being met. And I've been feeling lonely more often.

I had been going over in my head if I should ask Whip to move in. His current living situation is manageable but not fun. He asked me some time ago and I said no, I wasn't ready. Moving in together is a big deal for me. It means commitment, longevity and so on. It's one of my markers of a primary relationship.

I've been thinking a lot about what a primary relationship looks like if it doesn't have the markers of primary-ness that a typical monogamous relationship has - like living together, shared finances, etc.

I don't have any idea what that would look like or feel like.

Anyway, we finally had a chance to talk about living together. Whip basically thought I would not do well living with him. Or anyone really. I kind of agree. I need a lot of alone time and I need quiet. He's kind of a loud guy. Big voice, is rather hard of hearing so cranks the television, radio, etc. But I'm also struggling not to hear 'I don't want to live you.' in that statement. I don't believe that is what he meant - in my head. But I fear that statement he didn't say or imply is what he 'really' meant. Trying not to go round and round on this but not always succeeding. I think I will ask for reassurance on this.

I don't know if I can live with anyone anymore. And I don't know if I like being the kind of person who can't live with anyone. I mostly liked living with Beaker. There were lots of adjustments needed for both of us. Sometimes I needed more truly alone time than I got. Sometimes I felt lonely when she was right there. I don't want that feeling ever again. So while I need quiet and time to myself, I need people too. I want people around. I find myself craving more contact with people. Real contact, not superficial. I've been trying to develop more friendships and nurture the ones I've got. I'm been trying to do all the things I tell other people to try when feeling lonely and sad and alone. More friendships, hobbies, loving my pets, working on my stuff. Check.

But all that stuff doesn't actually end loneliness, not entirely. And unless there's some magical threshold I have not hit, it manages loneliness, but is not a cure.

So I've been lonely. And I fear the reasons behind that loneliness. What if it is the sigh of something major? What if my needs are not being met in my relationship with Whip? What if they never are? Or can't be? I've been lonely in the middle of a loving, committed, faithful, monogamous partnership. So I know monogamy is not 'the' answer and that poly is not necessarily the problem.

I read "The Seven Levels of Intimacy" by Matthew Kelly - recommended by LovingRadiance. (Thanks LR!) I also recommend it. It's written from a Christian perspective but, if you are not Christian, read it anyway. Ignore or just agree to disagree with the parts that assume monogamy and Christianity and think about the rest. Lots of good stuff in there about what intimacy actually is.

In that book, the author encourages readers to figure out what they really want in a great relationship. So I've started doing that work. I don't know where it will take me.

But I realized that I may be repeating a pattern with Whip that I had with Beaker. I knew early on in my relationship with Beaker that her career would come first. I was a close second. I was mostly ok with that. Whip has told me that he has to put developing his career first. Because of the bad economy, he's had a terrible time starting a career. So that is his understandable focus. He's been very upfront about that. I understand his reasons. But I've been realizing I want someone to put me, and us, first. Not a close second.

I don't know what to do with this realization. It's possible things could evolve with Whip in that direction. Or it may stay the way it is now. I know I need to continue talking with him. I keep telling myself to let things flow, to see how things go. I didn't think we would get to this place so relax and keep talking and keep loving.
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  #35  
Old 12-09-2013, 09:37 AM
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Whip has told me that he has to put developing his career first . . . But I've been realizing I want someone to put me, and us, first. Not a close second.
It is perfectly okay to want to be first in someone's life, but I wonder - what would you say to someone who was putting their partner first before their own needs for a career, stability, a sense of feeling useful in the world at large, financial security, etc.? Would you encourage that or talk to them about being there for themselves first?

I think wanting to be of central importance to a loved one is probably an urge we have that comes from a very young version of ourselves. And it's good to have the self-awareness to realize this is something you want - but I am not sure it is something to ask for or try to strategize to move toward. I think the more you invest in yourself and your relationship with him, it will reverberate and he will invest more in himself and his relationship to you - but that doesn't mean it will look anything like how you picture "being first" in someone's life. You might discover that he does consider you as a first or top priority in his life, but how he manifests or expresses that might be totally different than what you would expect it to be. So, rather than saying "I want you to put me first," which is rather nebulous, ask yourself what that means, exactly. Specifically, how would he behave and what would he say to show you that you are first? What would change? What expectations would you have? Maybe if you tumble those questions around in your head and figure out, in specifics, what would give you this feeling of being first, you can find ask for those things rather than a blanket "me first" request.

Does that all make sense?
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"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 12-10-2013 at 02:00 AM.
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:19 PM
bofish bofish is offline
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Hi O,

I was reading what you wrote about menopause. How are you doing with it?

I am 44. Last mothers day (ironically) I noticed that I had been having periods pretty constantly for months (every two weeks!). Since then, I've had them lapse for six weeks and then I have one every two weeks. I got tested and I'm near the END of menopause. At 44! I'm with you, I would never go on hormones. I'm too emotional already. Hang in there!
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:58 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
It is perfectly okay to want to be first in someone's life, but I wonder - what would you say to someone who was putting their partner first before their own needs for a career, stability, a sense of feeling useful in the world at large, financial security, etc.? Would you encourage that or talk to them about being there for themselves first?

I think wanting to be of central importance to a loved one is probably an urge we have that comes from a very young version of ourselves. And it's good to have the self-awareness to realize this is something you want - but I am not sure it is something to ask for or try to strategize to move toward. I think the more you invest in yourself and your relationship with him, it will reverberate and he will invest more in himself and his relationship to you - but that doesn't mean it will look anything like how you picture "being first" in someone's life. You might discover that he does consider you as a first or top priority in his life, but how he manifests or expresses that might be totally different than what you would expect it to be. So, rather than saying "I want you to put me first," which is rather nebulous, ask yourself what that means, exactly. Specifically, how would he behave and what would he say to show you that you are first? What would change? What expectations would you have? Maybe if you tumble those questions around in your head and figure out, in specifics, what would give you this feeling of being first, you can find ask for those things rather than a blanket "me first" request.

Does that all make sense?
@NYCindie, yes it does. I would not want anyone to be lesser for me. I am encouraging him to follow what he wants to do, and I will continue to do so. I'm not going to make a blanket 'me first, us first' statement. He wouldn't know what I meant. It is fuzzy, very true. I will think about the questions. I think they are good ones.

@bofish, I'm not in menopause. Hopefully that's a decade or so away. I wonder if I am at the start of perimenopause but that's not been confirmed. I actually don't know if they can confirm that.

That's amazing you are at the end of menopause already. I know that happens for some women. Has it caused any health issues for you? I hope not.
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:53 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I don't want responses on this one. If you must say something, pm me.

-----

Whip has decided he is not going to bottom anymore in public. Not with me, not with anyone. Both of us are switches although he puts 'top' in the description box on Fetlife. He's encountered being demeaned, being treated less than respectfully and he feels it's due to the prejudice against men who bottom or sub in the scene. And he's not wrong. Men who are also subs are seen by too many people as not masculine enough. Men who receive are seen as lesser, as are subs in general. He's had women dismiss him as a top once they learn he sometimes bottoms. It's happened a lot in every scene he's been a part of. And I do feel it is an endemic problem in BDSM as a whole. But he's tired of it. And so he's not bottoming in public anymore.

And I as so fucking pissed about this. I'm incredibly angry at the people who treated him like this. I'm angry at him for being not realizing this is not about him. It's their own issues. I'm angry at him for punishing me for what other people have done. It's not my fucking fault. I'm angry at him for not standing up for himself more often. I'm angry at him for not realizing that hiding does jack shit. It won't fix anything. I'm angry at myself for not being more openly supportive. I'm angry at myself for not realizing when this was happening to him and stopping it. I wish he had said something. I hope he will say something from now on. I've encouraged him to do so. I will be sure to say something.

I don't have another partner right now. I don't have anyone else that I can top in public. I'm working towards meeting people and eventually I suppose I will find someone. But it's been a year long dry spell. Partly that's been because I've been happy and have not felt the need to really look. But also I just haven't met anyone that clicks for me as a play partner, much less a romantic/sexual partner. And I want both - my BDSM is very sexual. That's not true for everyone but it is for me. I don't think I can have solely a vanilla sexual relationship right now. Nothing wrong with that but I would miss the kink aspect.

So I have no one to top with besides Whip. He's willing to bottom in private, which has been about 95% of our sessions. I don't need to play in public all the time. I'm happy with it being more unusual rather than an everyday thing. But I do want to play in public sometimes, and I want to top in public sometimes. I'm not one of those attractive, popular people who has offers from everyone to play. I have to show skills in order to play - no one cares otherwise. If I can't show what I know, and learn more, I will never develop as a top. I will stuck at where I'm at. I won't grow just topping in private. I need to challenge myself and part of that is scening in public. I just started to work on developing as a top. And I haven't topped him in public much at all. It's been twice. That's it. I've bottomed in public with him more than that. I bottomed for a while while I was introducing myself to the scene and getting my feet wet. But I've been around enough that this is something I want to learn to do well.

And I love scening with Whip. We have great chemistry. I loved bottoming and I loved topping, both privately and at play parties. I want to play with him in public. That's a big deal for me. He's my partner and I want to play with my partner, in public. And sometimes I want to top my partner in public.

Now, I just don't want to bottom for him.Anywhere. It's childish and from a place of rage and hurt and I know I am just triggered all over the place. But I don't care right now. If I can't top him in public, then I'm not interested in topping him in private. I'm not interested in being a bottom for him in public and I'm not interested in doing so at home either. I am too angry to feel sexual with him at all. He has other people who will bottom. He doesn't need me. I know he won't be inconvenienced. His other partners are subs. He does not switch with them so this change won't affect them.

But it really affects me. A big part of our relationship from my perspective is that we are both exploring BDSM. And we both switch. I treasure that dynamic because it is hard to find. I need someone who can tolerate the fact that I *cannot* stay in one role. I cannot. I am by nature fluid. My sexuality is fluid, my relationship is open, and my kink flows from one pole to the next and everywhere in between. Whip didn't just tolerate that - he encouraged it and seemed to understand it. But this feels like that door in our relationship is closing. And I know that just because it feels this way does not mean it actually is. It hurts though. A lot.

I do not do well with feeling trapped. It causes me to rage and to fight and to struggle. I have all kinds of triggers about feeling trapped. And I am feeling trapped now. Hence the rage and anger targeting everyone. Because I do not have other partners I can't develop as a top. Which feels like I am stuck. I do not want to bottom or top in private right now because I AM TOO FUCKING PISSED. I don't see a way out right now. I know that is not true. I know I am being super triggered and need to figure out why. BUT I AM TRAPPED BY SOMEONE ELSE'S STUPID WEAK DECISION AND I FUCKING HATE IT.

I hate that I think Whip is being weak on this. Who would want to be demeaned and dismissed? Being dismissed is one of the things that can cause instant rage in me. I understand not wanting that experience. I am trying to be empathetic here and utterly failing because I feel trapped, and am raging and cannot find a WAY OUT.

I am too dependent on Whip. I was thinking about going all in and really putting myself out there and investing in the relationship. But now I feel myself withdrawing. I don't want to put in the energy now. I don't know how to figure out which needs this relationship will fill and then go find someone else for those other needs. I don't know how to parcel out my needs like that. I do want to play with others. But mostly I want to play with Whip. In public. Topping him sometimes. People keep jumping to the idea that finding me other play partners will solve things. It won't. He offered to find me a male sub. Which was nice but not the point. The point is that I fear our connection, one of the things that make us, us, is weakening and will fail. If we don't switch together, if we don't continue exploring together, then a major part of our relationship is dying. I don't know if we will survive that. I don't know if we have enough in common, enough invested, to continue growing as a couple. I don't trust he will be there for me if we don't have things in common. Finding other partners is not the point. I will continue to go out and meet people. But I don't want a replacement Whip. I want Whip.
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2013, 09:24 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Whip has found yet another play partner. If my needs were being met, I doubt I would care. But I do. Why in the hell is he adding more people?

I was doing kind of better with the whole play in public situation. But he told me that he has connected with someone at a party and they are play partners now. I'm glad he told me - that's our agreements. But I am angry all over again.

It didn't help that on the same day he told me this, someone I hoped to be a potential play partner was just interested in fucking me on the day he was off. I'm fine with casual but I'm not interested in being an available hole. He clearly gave the impression anyone would do as long as she was available right then. So I am terribly discouraged right now at finding just play partners, much less anything more significant.

And I am angry what feels like all the time.

I don't want to bottom for him at all. I am too angry to want sex with him. And I do not want a vanilla only relationship. It's just not what I want. I don't want to top in private because I am too angry.

I feel trapped with no way out again. I am failing to have any empathy for him. I cannot see past my own rage, and pain, and frustration.
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  #40  
Old 12-26-2013, 03:47 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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We talked some over the holiday. It was good to talk but this is not going to be resolved anytime soon. It may never be 'fixed'. I am realizing I am shit at tolerating situations I do not like. I tend to change the situation or leave it if I am unhappy.

I am not raging as I was. I cannot sustain that level of anger for long. Periodically cranky and feeling withdrawn. I am not sure if that is better. I think Whip understands my issues. He keeps trying to throw out suggestions to make it better. I'm not sure if he gets my rage comes from fear - fear of losing something essential in our relationship, fear that my needs will not get met, fear of having to walk away from this relationship if my needs can't be met. I fear that in general, not just this particular issue.

He did bring up that relationships can't fullfill every need. Which is very true. And I don't expect this one to do that. But I am also very unsure as to how to figure out what needs should be met in this relationship and which ones can't be.

Stupid figuring out adult stuff...
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