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  #111  
Old 03-05-2010, 12:23 AM
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My kids actually are the reason I have an issue with Primary/Secondary or any other Heirarchy layout.

See-I am training them.
One of the concepts I'm trying to teach them is that Loving isn't the same as favoritism or even related.
Just because something is your favorite thing, doesn't mean you LOVE it and just because you LOVE someone doesn't mean they are the FAVORITE.

I prefer to think of it as I have a "favorite" box and all those I LOVE are in it together....

I explained to Maca today that "marriage" to me isn't what the world defines it. The world considers marriage a contract between two people. I consider marriage to be a COMMITMENT between two people. ANY two people. I consider it a commitment between myself and my child to do my best for them and love them unconditionally. I consider it a commitment between myself and my parents to love each other unconditionally. I consider it a commitment between myself and my friends to be there for one another and love each other unconditionally. I consider it to be a commitment between myself and my lovers to be there for one another and to Love each other unconditionally.

I consider it MY commitment to be unconditional and stand by my commitments to others REGARDLESS of them choosing to do so.

BUT-if I want to teach my children not to play "favorites" in the way they treat those they love, then I need to SHOW them that behavior, not tell them about it.

Therefore it's very important to me that I not use primary/secondary status with Maca and GG. Because the truth is that I love both of them with no conditions and I don't believe that Love ends and I don't believe that one or the other will stop being important if they leave, I will still love them....
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  #112  
Old 03-05-2010, 01:10 AM
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I think I'm starting to see where both "schools" see eye-to-eye...

It's just like that whole "poly relationships are just like mono relationships, but with more people" thing.

The concerns the poly parents here are describing echo what any monogamous "good parent" would say when looking for partners. They don't tend to get together with the other parent and decide a-priori what future relationships will be like, when they'll date or whether they're "allowed" to fall in love. But when someone does come along, if one parent has a concern about whether that new boyfriend is a good influence on their child or if they're distracting the parent so much that the child starts to feel neglected, they tend to bring it up.

To that end, my step-daughter's monogamous mom recently "dumped" (daughter's words, not ours) her at our house for the weekend so that her new boyfriend could come spend some time without the kids around. But she brought her to our city, 1 1/2 hours away from where she lives, for a "shopping" trip and then told her when she was here that she had to go to her dad's for the night, no toothbrush or pajamas... This is meant to illustrate that none of the issues brought up by parents here are unique to polyamory, they apply any time any parent is dating anyone, and monos can fuck it up just as bad as we can. At least if one parent of a poly relationship gets a little bit lovestruck and distracted for a while, there's another parent living there full-time who's on top of it and looking out for the kid. Meanwhile, my step-daughter is feeling completely neglected and abandoned, and there's not much we can do because she doesn't want to live with us. And her mom never listens to us when we voice our concerns, she tells us to mind our own business (as if the daughter wasn't "our business".) But if she were our partner, she would "have to" listen to us :P

So as far as kids are concerned, and "making rules" to prescribe how new relationships will look: I can see how that would be a problem and bother new potential partners. And as was said previously, if a new partner is a genuine "cause for concern" in that they may try to come between the existing partners, or may be negative influences on the kids, and if the partner dating them is too caught up in the moment to see that, then all the rules in the world won't mean bubkiss. But if the relationship is healthy and there are good lines of communication, then formal rules are unnessesary.

For example, I somewhat doubt that redpepper ever sat down with mono and explicitly said "look, I have a kid, and if he ever needs me, I may have to cancel our date." Maybe she did, but mono seems like a very reasonable and responsible person, and I just don't think it was necessary to say that. And if she did say it just to make sure, then I'm sure he said "well obviously!"
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  #113  
Old 03-05-2010, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post

For example, I somewhat doubt that redpepper ever sat down with mono and explicitly said "look, I have a kid, and if he ever needs me, I may have to cancel our date." Maybe she did, but mono seems like a very reasonable and responsible person, and I just don't think it was necessary to say that. And if she did say it just to make sure, then I'm sure he said "well obviously!"
Right you are SchrodingersCat! I also have a 16 year old daughter so I've been there.
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  #114  
Old 03-05-2010, 02:26 AM
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Mono you are too damn fast.
I read that and was SO ready to write a smart ass reply. (in a good way guys not a bad way).

I was trying to PICTURE a conversation between you two along those lines and it brought me a fresh (and much needed) giggle!

I never said a word to GG about it when we met, it was just reality and he picked up on how it went as he hung around.

My oldest daughter was SO accident prone. The number of times I ran out of work to meet her caretaker and her at the E.R. or ran out of the house rushing her to the E.R. UGH-we were just talking about that the other night!!

But no, nothing was laid out in a list of "rules". I think in some ways we're arguing semantics of terminology. When I say it's a rule for me, and for my relationships that my kids come first, it's kind of like saying "what goes up must come down" is the RULE of gravity. We don't have to agree to it, write it down or any of that, it's just the way it is.

Someone doesn't have to agree with my rule, but if they don't, they will leave me, because it's the "rule of LR's life"... just like "what goes up must come down" is "the rule of gravity".

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  #115  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:19 AM
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(in a good way guys not a bad way).


I am a little "pre-mature" but in my defence I consider most things a race so if I get there first...I WIN!!
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  #116  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:15 AM
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I'm feeling a little hurt by this assumption that I would somehow have rules for partners around my child. I need to be loved and like nothing more than to share that with several people. Why would I want to constrict that by setting rules and making assumptions that people do things my way.

I am sorry if people have been hurt by couples that are parents that have set rules excluding people. Rules such as primary/secondary. I would wonder what the purpose would be in doing that and assume that they were thinking it might work better for their children. Maybe they were right and maybe they were wrong for them and those involved. I would think that would become evident to them and whomever was involved. That hurt can sometimes last a life time if it didn't work out and if a person continues to gain some kind of benefit by playing the victim.

To put it on others that weren't involved is unfair to me and perpetuates that hurt and pain. Now I think it is put on me and other parents who have and/or want other partners in their lives. We are not the ones that caused that hurt. Someone else did that. Yes I agree that couples with kids have to be careful with their intentions. We have talked about that a million times on here and it still comes up. The thing is, everyone has to start somewhere and that should be respected.

Its our job I think, to respectfully educate and engage others by using examples from our own lives and that of others. Not immediately disagree and bombard them with anger over our pain and hurt. It has made me feel disrespected and hurt. I am not wanting to write anything and certainly haven't learned anything. I just feel defensive and hurt. I would like to feel engaged, thoughtful about peoples experiences and respected for where I am at in my own journey about parenting and relationship juggling. I like to think I do my best to meet people where they are at, I expect that same respect.
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  #117  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:31 AM
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I like to devote my time entirely to a person and since I have had a child I haven't been able to do that. Its getting better as he gets older and does his own thing more, but yesterday was a reminder of how sometimes I am not able to give what I feel someone deserves. I understand that they just have to accept that, I just personally struggle with it sometimes.
That makes more sense when you put it this way. I'm not sure what you mean by "yesterday", but I can see, in general, how you would feel apologetic not because you have a kid, but because you would like to give more than you actually can. I tend to devote to others as well.
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  #118  
Old 03-05-2010, 05:08 AM
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RP-
I hope what I said wasn't hurting your feelings. I wasn't in anyway making a bad assumption about you.
In fact I was trying to imagine the conversation as suggested and found the whole idea so hysterical I couldn't do it.
Primarily because neither of you strike me as the type to have the need for THAT type of conversation.
Anyway-xoxooxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

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  #119  
Old 03-05-2010, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I'm feeling a little hurt by this assumption that I would somehow have rules for partners around my child. I need to be loved and like nothing more than to share that with several people. Why would I want to constrict that by setting rules and making assumptions that people do things my way.
Nobody to my knowledge is making assumptions about you specifically. You brought up the subject with posting about Franklin's post and everybody- yourself, myself and everyone else- is coming at the discussion from their own hard earned experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Its our job I think, to respectfully educate and engage others by using examples from our own lives and that of others. Not immediately disagree and bombard them with anger over our pain and hurt. It has made me feel disrespected and hurt. I am not wanting to write anything and certainly haven't learned anything. I just feel defensive and hurt. I would like to feel engaged, thoughtful about peoples experiences and respected for where I am at in my own journey about parenting and relationship juggling. I like to think I do my best to meet people where they are at, I expect that same respect.
I think it's also our job to be honest about when certain actions or ways of relating create hurtful consequences for others.

You have certainly bombarded others with anger when you have felt hurt over what somebody says, often when it's not even about you. You're not the only person struggling and it would be very hard to have any conversations if people aren't allowed to express their hurt and anger, especially since it's been repeatedly said that if you're not one of the people who do the things that are hurtful, then the people expressing the hurt and anger are not talking about you. I'm sorry to be blunt about this, but I'm honestly having a hard time understanding how expecting others to be less than honest about their own feelings is respectful. It's not something that's healthy to do in any relationship.
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  #120  
Old 03-08-2010, 07:14 AM
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I'm sorry to be blunt about this, but I'm honestly having a hard time understanding how expecting others to be less than honest about their own feelings is respectful. It's not something that's healthy to do in any relationship.
You're right, I certainly have gotten angry with people on these forums. I have room for people being angry with situations on here and even with me, but when that anger continues and becomes directed towards me in terms of *chalking me up to something that they assume is me*, I have a hard time with that.

I may get angry with people, but I still do my best to find a way to meet them where they are at.... eventually. I am getting better with that the longer I hang out here. I used to blow up at everyone on here as they pushed my idea of what I thought poly was. I have learned that what my experience is is just different and unique to me... I am learning and we all are learning. All I ask is that there be respect and patience for that. As I am doing my best to do the same.
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