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  #11  
Old 03-05-2010, 01:44 AM
saudade saudade is offline
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The thing is, other than the financial benifits and the security of the kids, What does being married matter? I will care and love for LR anyways. Im commited to her and will remain so. So honestly, what besides mortal worldly benefits ,does a piece of paper and a cerimony mean?
@Maca, it is hard. In figuring this shit out ourselves, the answer I came up with, and I suspect K and Z agree, is that the social recognition of marriage is what matters. We want a public ceremony with our families and friends in which everyone agrees, "S and K are getting married. They plan on being together for the rest of their lives, and we support them in that intention."

I feel like I'm especially craving that support and recognition from the people in our lives because what we're doing romantically is so controversial. We're already out to a majority of the wedding guests, and we're seriously weighing coming out to the rest. (Basically, that means coming out to K's and my extended families, some of whom are conservative politically and/or religiously-- our immediate families and friends know about Z already.) That's also why I want Z and I to have a wedding in a few years, even if it carries no legal benefit: it's important to us that the people we care about are able to show support for us, and the life we are leading. I'm also appreciative of how the social institution of marriages and weddings gives us a venue for requesting that kind of support!
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2010, 02:00 AM
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maca maca is offline
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I can see and appreciate where your heart and where your desires are. I will chew on this for a bit more. Being a two time loser ( in what I believed marriage meant) Im skeptical. But one thing Ive learned is that fear based ideals are often misplaced. So thanks for your point of view it may just save whats left of my marriage.



Maca
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2010, 02:42 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Now that he's left the computer I'll chime in.

We're not really looking at having a commitment ceremony-though the first post sort of sounded that way.

Really the issue is that if I have a lover (GG) what does our marriage MEAN?
Maca's definition of marriage leaves no room for ANYONE but husband and wife 100% committed to one another.
My definition has never been that or even similar to that, but isn't really pertinent to the discussion at hand.

The reality is that much as Mono said-I love Maca, I don't NEED to prove it to anyone else, I know it inside of me like I know when my stomach hurts.
Likewise I love GG and I don't need to prove it to anyone else because I know it inside of me the same way.
There are others, who aren't "lovers".
I simply don't identify "love" as being such a singular concept. I can and do love all 4 of my children, my sisters and brothers (full, 1/2, step, foster), Maca, GG etc with a deep, all-encompassing love.
I don't "rate" them and I don't find that it's necessary to. They are all "my loves", period.

But it's never been so for Maca and so he's struggling to find himself in light of wanting to be with me, but not wanting to share me, not only with a lover, but with anyone.

As for ceremonies-I think that it's good to have one so long as you know what it is you are doing it for.
As for ensuring security of relationships, particularly in poly situation, it's IMPERATIVE to cover the details outlined previously.
Because laws limit rights and if those rights matter to you, you better cover the details before something happens to one or another of you and tragic heartbreak occurs ALSO.
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:00 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Maca's definition of marriage leaves no room for ANYONE but husband and wife 100% committed to one another.
.
And yet again me your hubby are alike. Because of this I have a hard time with the concept of marriage in multi-partner non-monogamous relationships. I fully realize that this is mostly conditioning but regardless, it does not mean I can just turn these feelings off anymore than someone can turn off the love for a wayward child.

At one time I would have said I could just play the part and act my way through a ceremony but that is not the case. When I understand the concept of non-monogamous vows within my heart, then I will be ready to say them. This is not one sided either. As hard as it is to say, hearing Redpepper say vows to me would be the same..I would wonder what they meant and what power they have. What difference would they make to us and those who witnessed them?

And this does not even touch on the affects of what my family/friends would be thinking. Essentially I would be getting an unknown validation from the community I barely understand. The community I do understand would probably judge and see it nothing more as an excuse to get drunk and three drinks into it there would be a fight.

My work continues!
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:02 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Yes Mono-I know.

I have no issue with that feeling. I agree wholeheartedly that people should not take vows that they don't comprehend.

Too bad more Mono people aren't so picky!

MUAH!!!!
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:13 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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too bad more mono people aren't so picky!

muah!!!!
hahhhhahhhhaaaa!!!
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:13 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Funny word, that commitment...

If someone is committed to being a good friend, no one interprets that as not having any other friends.

If someone is committed to being a good student, it doesn't mean they won't do any learning outside of school.

If someone is committed to being a good parent, it doesn't mean they might not adopt or foster other children.

So why does commitment in marriage carry this association with exclusivity?

I'm committed to keeping my promises to my husband, treating him with love and respect, supporting him when he's going through trouble and sharing his joy when he's in good times. Those are the things I was thinking of when I said "I do."

The default legal vows where I live include the exclusion of all others. I actually feel that the ceremony and vows themselves were just a formality. We were already committed before we made it formal. Getting married wasn't even a legal issue because of Canada's common-law legislation, we already shared every right given to married folk.

I often hear my friends say things like "he's a really great guy, I can imagine being together when we're old" and I feel like that sentiment is missing something. My opinion has always been: it's not that you should be able to imagine your life with them forever, it's that you shouldn't be able to imagine yourself without them. That's what marriage means to me, and that has nothing to do with the other people that may come into our lives.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:16 AM
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That is SUCH an awesome post!!!
Schroding, you should print that one and frame it!!!

I completely FEEL that post in my soul!!
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:45 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Hijacked by Maca on LR's Account...

Quote:
Funny word, that commitment...

If someone is committed to being a good friend, no one interprets that as not having any other friends.
Where does the term "BEST FRIEND " come into play? I agree that it dosent mean you cant have ANY other friends but there is the almighty "BEST FRIEND"


Quote:
If someone is committed to being a good student, it doesn't mean they won't do any learning outside of school.
Again I agree but why do we pick a major? And once we have picked a major we gear our learning towards that field.Even after finishing school the direction we gravitate towards for further learning is influenced by a commitment to a direction of learning.



Quote:
If someone is committed to being a good parent, it doesn't mean they might not adopt or foster other children.
When it comes to children I totally agree. Once you have a child I believe that you no longer have an option to commiting your self to there well being.Also if you make a choice to adopt then you are commiting that same commitment that you would to a natural born( by you) child.

Quote:
So why does commitment in marriage carry this association with exclusivity?
It only carries that association to exclusivity if that is what YOU believe it means to you. Every person is different and has a right to decide for themselves what the commitment of marriage meansto them.



Quote:
The default legal vows where I live include the exclusion of all others. I actually feel that the ceremony and vows themselves were just a formality.
Where you live is it not allowed to write your own vows? I dont know all the laws in the different parts of the world, but if it is legal then why would you say " I DO" when you do not believe in that? If it is the law then back to my first post that I made on this thread. Why get married? I can understand if it was for financial or security purposes but if you ( by law) have to agree to something that you dont believe in why do that??


Just someofmy thoughts. Im by no means arguring with you or saying that your opinion'sdont matter. Im only trying to get a better understanding.


Maca


Quote:
We were already committed before we made it formal. Getting married wasn't even a legal issue because of Canada's common-law legislation, we already shared every right given to married folk.
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2010, 11:15 PM
Blaidwynn Blaidwynn is offline
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Default love trumps paperwork

Sisterinlove and I have been married for 2+ years and we have recently created a trio. my new girlfriend is still absorbing the whole poly idea and concept so we are taking things slowly - she has expressed that her idea of a future with me included being married - this brought pause for only a few moments before my wife offered the proposal that if it is that important to her, and that kind of security is what she needed then she would be willing to dissolve the "paper" and even be willing to perform a wedding ceremony for us. Obviously this is something she had considered prior to the conversation and something only she could offer. She and I realize that we are going to be together and love each other no matter what and we are willing to do what is needed to bring security and comfort to my girlfriend. Don't go ringing wedding bells just yet lol - as I said we are taking things slowly and if/when we reach that place we'll make an announcement.

either way - use the system to your best advantage either financially or personally, prior to the discussion we had discussed a handfasting ceremony - celtic wedding tradition - to seal a "marriage" bond that while not recognised by the government would mean the same to our hearts as a symbol of our love. My advise.... don't let ink, paper and beauraracy be a barrier in any measure.
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