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  #61  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:39 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I like the color theme. That's very cool.

Maca and GG picked their own names on here, so I was kind of stuck with those lol.
The kids are all some sort of pea. LOL.
Spicy Pea (cause she's part Puerta Rican) (never can spell that)
Salty Pea (it fits his personality)
Split Pea (he's my Godson and has been split between families)
Sweet Pea (This is how it started, that was always his nickname)
Sour Pea (cause she had major digestion issue as a baby and we nicknamed her that)

Now the grandson is Little P. Because when he was born I was so excited and wanted to announce it and that is what popped in my head.
But Maca started calling him Peanut and it stuck, so when his baby brother was born we started calling him Cashew.

So NOW the grand babies are nuts.
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  #62  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:35 PM
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Re (from Murasaki):
Quote:
"Re: 'It has occurred to me to check and see if my prior posts would be tweaked at all by my particular situation, as you intimated, Murasaki.'
For the record I made that suggestion because reading your remarks gave me the impression that they were geared towards a married couple seeking a single. Which on the surface does seem to fit in your situation. I also felt that your wording was more looking at things as the Married couple being of the unicorn hunting variety, and I didn't believe you were anyone's Unicorn.
Perhaps my word choices were taken more aggressively then I intended. If offense was taken, none was intended."
No offense taken. I think I started out with the idea that since I am the unmarried person in my V, I am like the "would-be unicorn" to my two married companions. Of course, that would only fit the stereotype if we were a triad, I were a bi female, and my companions were a bi and hetero female and male respectively. So I'm not really a "unicorn," but I made comparisons to fit for the sake of argument.

At the time it hadn't occurred to me to compare our V to a "couple with privelage." The only difference is that there are three of us instead of two -- and yes, we are poised to exercise a certain amount of privelage (over a newcomer). One lesson to learn is that perhaps we, too, a trio, should be prepared to have some flexibility, should a fourth person ever come into our life.

Re (from LovingRadiance):
Quote:
"Too many people make the assumption that their ideas are everyone's ideas. Dangerous path!"
Indeed. As are almost all assumptions. I'll take "too much communication" any day over the risk of too little. Heh. Remember when NASA bungled a Mars mission because some of the planners were "assuming" English measurements while others were "assuming" metric measurements? A little extra communication could have saved everyone a whole lot of time, effort, and money.
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  #63  
Old 10-06-2013, 01:09 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Kdt-
lol

yes. assumptions.. so much fun.
I prefer too much communication over too little as well.
Its SO EASY to say "ok, break, my ears are over limit".
But how does one know when to say (before a crisis) "um... hey is there something you haven't told me but should?"

Blech.

Maca and I made way too many assumptions when we got together. Figuring all of them out (and then, the dramatic problems that they caused) so we could fix shit-was a FIASCO.

We had different working definitions for love, affection, hope, work, family, home, care, attention, quality time.....
I mean really-it's a wonder we survived the first 10 years at all!

Once we figured out that we were coming from (TOTALLY) different worlds; we were able to plan a joint venture. Talk about EYE OPENING!

Poor GG was stuck watching the whole thing play out, not really sure where it went awry, but knowing something was off.


Learn from mistakes. Learn from mistakes.
Now, I say everything and ask for everything to be said. Sometimes it's probably too much. But at least this way we aren't walking around like morons with our heads stuck in the ground, thinking we're going one place together and actually digging trenches to different places all on our own!
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  #64  
Old 10-06-2013, 11:49 PM
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Haha, well said. A little innocent assumption can cause so much grief. God, gods, or Mother Nature, take your pick, gave us a brain, mouth, and ears. How blessed we are when we use those blessings! Assumptions can be revealed at the get-go with minimal headache, or they can be revealed later by experience and full-blown migraines. I recommend getting them out of the way ahead of time.

It's always a surprise to find out how different another person's assumptions were, when you were both so sure it seemed so obvious. Ah, but things are never obvious until they are given plainly understood expression. Shoot, even I, who am prone to talking too much, have been known to leave out a detail that proved to be a major factor later on. So, never assume ... Always get confirmation.
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  #65  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
This seems like you are angry about a situation you have been in and I have become the target of that anger. I am sorry you found yourself in such a situation, I and my family did not create the situation which caused you such distress, and is the source of your current anger.
No, I can spot when a couple has those types of restrictive rules that signify control issues and couple privilege a mile off and I avoid them like the plague. I've thankfully never been in that situation.
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  #66  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
and their SOís have very different expectations on each other, and those expectation (to me) are easier to work with than the expectations on live-in partners.
If you mean that solo poly people are more likely to practice a relaxed, trust based form of ethical non monogamy opposed to couples who are more likely to feel the need to protect themselves from betrayal with rules and protocols, you're absolutely right. Yes, I am solo right now because, as I said, I don't share practical entanglements with anyone. I don't plan to always be solo, but this won't mean that I suddenly insert rules and regulations about having new partners that weren't there before. The foundation of trust, respect and freedom that we start with is what I want to carry through the relationship. Yes, our obligations will increase as we get more entangled, but I don't need to set rules/guidelines/protocols/boundaries that will ensure my partner will maintain his responsibilities. That is not the type of relationship I want.
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  #67  
Old 10-08-2013, 03:53 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
No, I can spot when a couple has those types of restrictive rules that signify control issues...
What type of rules would you regard as restrictive?

On what basis do these rules mean that a person or a couple has issues, rather than this is what works for them?
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  #68  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:46 AM
london london is offline
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What type of rules would you regard as restrictive?
I view rules that control how someone can interact and bond with a new partner as restrictive. For example, if there are rules around when and how a date can place, what can happen on that date and having to ask permission to interact in the ways that we want to. There is a difference between someone's wife saying "Will you check in with me on your date because I get the wobbles and it helps to maintain our relationships" and saying "Will you refrain from interacting with this person in this way and interact with them that way instead because it makes me feel more secure". Any rules that are designed to make sure that the people in the relationship maintain their responsibilities - this to me signifies distrust, more than anything. If a guy that I was planning to date has rules set by his wife to ensure that he spends enough time with his kids, it puts me off of him. Why doesn't he naturally want to spend time with his kids? Why doesn't she trust that he will put his kids before his love life? What kind of guy is he? I also know that "the kids" is useful manipulation tool when you are attempting to control your partner's outside relationships: if you can make your partner feel like any spare time spent away from the kids and with a partner is a betrayal to them, you can ensure that your partner will spend very little time away from the home (ie you) and any partner they see will also be under your supervision if they opt to see them at all under those circumstances.

Another thing is when a person has expectations for metamours to slot into a little gap, unicorn style, with no thought or consideration to what they might need or what works for them. The assumption that they will share their philosophies and want to build a romantic relationship the way that the spouse (not the potential partner) thinks is appropriate. It is meant to be the people who will have the relationship that decide how it is best for those two individuals to bond. On a side note, what I see happen in these cases is that when one of the people in the primary style relationship meets someone they really like, they too begin to actually want to accommodate their needs, simply because they want to build a relationship of some sort with them and they realise that unless they consider their needs, that won't happen. This puts the spouse up in arms because they feel like their primary union isn't being respected and most importantly, protected, by those initial rules and regulations they set. Sometimes those protection rules were set because the person forming the new relationship has a penchant for shirking their obligations when they develop new ones, other times that isn't the case at all. It's just a way for one or both parties to control their partner's other relationships and I am not into having my relationships controlled by someone else. I like my relationships to be organic, as hippified as that sounds, and they cannot develop organically when they are being influenced by someone else.

Quote:
On what basis do these rules mean that a person or a couple has issues, rather than this is what works for them?
What you are dismissing is the fact that it may "work for them" because "a person or a couple has issues". If you acknowledge that your partner is very insecure and has trust issues, and so that means that they put restrictions on your outside relationships but you are fine with those restrictions because it doesn't stop you getting what you need from those outside relationships, that's fine. Obviously, as long as you are forthcoming about those restrictions and the consequential privilege that will always give your primary relationship to any potential partner(s). It doesn't invalidate the fact that there are insecurity, control and trust issues in your relationship, it just means that you are cool with them being there. I'm just saying that I don't form relationships with people who are in that situation because it is incompatible with the types of relationships that I want to have.

Last edited by london; 10-08-2013 at 08:50 AM.
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  #69  
Old 10-10-2013, 02:06 PM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from Murasaki):
No offense taken. I think I started out with the idea that since I am the unmarried person in my V, I am like the "would-be unicorn" to my two married companions. Of course, that would only fit the stereotype if we were a triad, I were a bi female, and my companions were a bi and hetero female and male respectively. So I'm not really a "unicorn," but I made comparisons to fit for the sake of argument.

At the time it hadn't occurred to me to compare our V to a "couple with privelage." The only difference is that there are three of us instead of two -- and yes, we are poised to exercise a certain amount of privelage (over a newcomer). One lesson to learn is that perhaps we, too, a trio, should be prepared to have some flexibility, should a fourth person ever come into our life.
Until your comment about sharing emails I had not thought of a triad or V exhibiting privilege over a new relationship. I guess we are both thankful to your remarks on emailing It makes just as much sense as a couple who act in a privileged fashion. Food for thought.

On Sharing email info:
Kuroi and I have shared all login and password info on everything. This stems from the beginnings of the internet, when email was new. Due to forgetting logins, ect we created a shared address book that we store everything in. It's not common for either of us to "check" the others accounts, but it does occur on occasion with the other person permission or request depending on the situation. I let my potential SOís know for just in case. Not sure if Kuroi does the same, I have never asked. I have however stated that I expect it to be known.



Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I view rules that control how someone can interact and bond with a new partner as restrictive. For example, if there are rules around when and how a date can place,
Who says its a ďruleĒ that restricts WHEN a date can take place? Maybe itís more about time management then any rule. In my relationship itís time management. I may WANT weekends with Kuroi because that is the time I have available. Does that mean Kuroi is obligated to give me that? Or is it just that Kuroi NEEDS to take my requests into consideration when making plans with someone else?

If Kuroi decides to grant my request and then invites someone out on a weekday date, is that really me creating a controlling or restrictive ďruleĒ? Or is Kuroi taking that request into consideration? Is this a case of an assumption being made that my request is a demand with no flexibility? Or is Kuroi attempting to grant my request first, if the other person will accept a weekday date. If this other person isn't available and the only time they can meet is on the weekend does my request then get set aside? YES. at least this time it does, maybe next time I'll get my request granted.

This has actually only happened on the JOB front, but it illustrates my point I think. I asked Kuroi to see about getting a Friday or a Saturday off once or twice a month so we could have a day off together. So far I have gotten ONE Friday in a months time. But I'm hopeful for more each month that comes along.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #70  
Old 10-10-2013, 02:13 PM
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My spouse and I never had ďrulesĒ and now that Iím wanting some rules none of what I am talking about/suggesting controls what Kuroi and a new person can do between themselves.
The only restrictive things Kuroi (and myself for that matter) have to work around is the inability to have a sleepover at our place. We do not have the space for it. And having only one reliable mode of transportation at the moment. (not counting our own two feet, and trains/public transportation)


The rules Iím talking with Kuroi about are more an explanation of what I consider respect between Kuroi and I, between myself and any meta with whom I have contact. I have asked Kuroi to put a similar thing together for us to talk about.
When a new SO comes into the picture I would ask them the same thing, and I expect Kuroi to do the same with his SOís.

I have started this because of the issues NRE between my ex and Kuroi caused. Because Kuroi dropped the ball while experiencing NRE something that had not happened for a long time for Kuroi. Kuroi was not prepared. I was not prepared. My idea of respectful speech, and conduct are something I am not willing to budge on ever again. And I intend to be very very sure that Kuroi knows and understands how I want to be treated by my partners, and their SOís. (I will have a similar conversation with my SOís when I start dating and the time is right)

I do not expect people to be perfect. We are all human, flaws are part of being human. Iím willing to work with someone who has issues with jealousy, or insecurity (up to a point). Iím not going to up and walk away from a relationship that has potential because someone needs to work on themself some. Now if whomever has the issue refuses to acknowledge the issue, or to work on it thatís a different story.

As a matter of fact I was talking to Kuroi about providing the poly resource we have collected and offering them to new people (not everyone with have any idea, or info on Poly prior to meeting a poly person). For several reasons. Information is power. Education is a great way to reduce stress, and minimize some issues from cropping up. Offering information allows someone new to poly the ability to make a more informed decision. And there is the benefit of them being more likely to recognize their issues, and speak up when (for example) they feel jealous so we can help (whom evers help they want/need). There is the added benefit of this information allowing someone new to point out when Kuroi and I are doing the negative things, then this new person can help me, or Kuroi or both of us avoid making certain mistakes. This requires the ability for everyone to communicate at least cordially with each other.

In My case, I have a health issue that could require my SOís communicate at inconvenient times to me and that SO, and to my other SO and their partner. This will likely require more than just cordial communication. Especially for any new person dealing with my previously unwitnessed health issue. So My SO seeing me get sick, will likely need to call Kuroi for how to help me recover. And Kuroiís SO will NEED to know that this is a possibility (rare, but it does occur, and is not something within my control) so that hurt feelings can be reduced (hopefully prevented). Not sure Iím willing to share my health issue. It only comes up once every few years. But it happened while out with one of Kuroiís co-workers this past weekend, so Iím feeling very uncomfortable, embarrassed, and such about it.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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