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  #21  
Old 10-01-2013, 06:53 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
We are working on it. Alaska is a VERY VERY different place.
Some things are good.
Some are SO NOT.

(FYI-there was never a question of respecting the boundary, but she just would not let it go)
Sadly, such shenanigans could happen anywhere, even in 'civilization'.
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2013, 07:00 PM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I would find it very rude if someone I was going on a date with was more interested in accommodating their wife's needs than thinking about what I might need for the date to have a chance at success.
What exactly are you referring to here? What do you think I have said that invalidates the needs of a possibly date?

Anyone I accept a date invite from, or ask out on a date will know that I am poly, married with a kid. Depending on where, and how we met they will likely also know quite a few other important things about me and my lifestyle as well.

Perhaps you are saying that the needs of my SO means that my attention will not be on our date? Like spending our time together texting my partners, kids, ect? What do you NEED for a first date to have a chance to be successful?
Your needs for a first date to be successful may not match what I need for a first date to be successful. That is really not the question here though. The question is how will your First date, and the potential you see with this person affect your network?

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Originally Posted by london View Post
Again, just because you haven't formalised any sort of relationship agreement or commitment to someone that you are interacting with, it doesn't mean that their opinions get to be dismissed, or deemed less important than those of your partner.
I do not take the opinions of people I have no relationship with as anything all that important to me. If I did I would be much more offended by some posts on these forums then I am, and by your explanation confused whose opinion I should consider, there are so many differences of opinion on every topic within this forum. (I can say the same thing about the opinions of people I work with) I interact with and have a relationship with many posters to this forum. Their opinions I may or I may not be taken into consideration.

When it comes to meeting someone, for a date, social gathering. My own opinion/decision comes first. As someone else pointed out you are your own primary.


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Originally Posted by london View Post
You can easily replace primary with "relationship that has existed the longest". Because that is what you are asking, isn't it? You are creating this dichotomy between meeting the needs of your existing partner and meeting the needs of potential/new partners.
This feels like an assumption being made. I suppose it was wishful thinking on my part to believe that my polystyle would not be called into question versus the topic actually getting discussed.

If you must know, my “primary” partner (per your description) whose needs, wants, opinions come before any other partner is my child Momoiroi. You will see that most often I use my relationship with Momoiroi as an example, not my relationship with my long term partner Kuroi.

I use the term primary to mean simply any SO with whom I have a lot of obligations and shared responsibilities.
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I have responsibilities to the people who are already apart of my partnership(s), I do not have the same responsibilities to someone I’m just now getting to know. For me once I have discussed the possibility of starting a new partner/love connection with someone new (In my case this happens BEFORE I start looking to date) with my current partners, then I would need to talk to my new potential and see what their expectations are, and if what I have available will fit within their expectations, or if more negotiation needs to be made.
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Originally Posted by london View Post
See, what would be logical to me is to discuss what that person would need for that option to be there and then I would consider whether I can meet those needs given the obligations I already have. Discussing how I develop new relationships, ie my polyamory, is something that should be settled between any existing partners already, before there are any potential partners on the scene. So, when I do meet someone else, I think about interacting and bonding with them and not having to console my existing partner(s). I am or should be already meeting their needs. We already know what my obligations and how much time I have to spend with any additional partners. I know that I will need to find someone who doesn't require an amount of time that I am unable to give as well as maintain the relationships and responsibilities I have already. Why will my existing partner's needs suddenly going to drastically change now I have someone else on the scene? If that was a regular occurrence, I'd certainly question whether it was a manipulation technique.
This makes me think that you are LOOKING for an argument. I clearly stated that these discussion happen BEFORE I start looking to date. At least between myself and my romantic partners. I’ll stick to offering the benefit of the doubt, and decide to believe that you skipped over that part unintentionally, or that it got lost in all the text around it.

When I decide that I am ready to date again I will talk to Momoiroi about it. I will ask how Momoiroi feels about, and discuss how my dating other people may affect my relationship, role, rules, responsibilities, and expectation with Momoiroi. For instance, before I put my profile back up on OKC I would let Momoiroi know I’m feeling ready to start dating again. Momoiroi and I would then discuss how this may affect our relationship short term, and long term. Including things like my not driving Momoiroi to School every morning, or picking up every afternoon. I would not spring these changes on Momoiroi without discussing it first.

Yes Momoiroi comes first, and any new person I invite into my life has to deal with that. If they can not, that is their problem. I see it as them losing out, nothing more than that.

A new person needs are not something i will mind reader. When someone new and I decide to meet up they are free to let me know what they are looking for. Most likely that will have been talked about before deciding to meet up.

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Originally Posted by london View Post
I think that if there are rules and agreements in the existing relationship that define how and when one interacts with potential partners, then the existing relationship is controlling new relationships. My obligation to my existing partner is to meet the needs that he has of his romantic partner(s). When I stop doing that, I am then being a less than responsible partner. If his needs included controlling the way I interact with new partners regardless of whether I am fulfilling my obligations to him, it would be me and him that have the incompatibility. If my new/potential partner needed me to shirk my ongoing responsibilities in order to create a relationship with them, that would be a sign of our incompatibility. I will not treat someone badly (by dismissing their needs) in order to maintain or build another relationship.
Again this feels like you are looking for an argument. Where have I said that there are “rules and agreements in the existing relationship that define how and when one interacts with potential partners”? What I have been looking for with this thread is an explanation on how your relationship(s) affect each other. Your first post or two were in line with the point of this thread, now you are questioning my poly style, and do not have the information to lodge judgements and accusations on me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I absolutely agree that both people have to be flexible and acknowledge that their shared partner has obligations to more than one person. I disagree that "solo" poly involves less accommodation of this kind:
I am not a solo poly person, but from what I have seen/read on these forums solo poly people have very few major responsibilities with their partners. There’s usually no shared finances, no shared housing, and no co-parenting with (romantic) partners (ex-spouse aside). You do not have to meet my other partners, family, kids, friend for my relationship with you to affect my relationship(s) with them. Adding new relationships to my life affects my financial status, and the amount of time I have available to spend with the people already apart of my everyday life. This will affect poeple whom I have financial, child care, and home care responsibilities with more then people whom I do not have these responsibilities with.

If your response continue saying that my primary partner (my child) is controlling my other relationship(s) and is therefore manipulative; it is very unlikely that I will respond directly to you again. As continuing that line of conversation shows our incompatibility, and that there is a disconnect between us.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #23  
Old 10-01-2013, 07:10 PM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Originally Posted by Inyourendo View Post
Special circumstances like a weekend trip.would require special consideration. We aren't completely rigid.
Your original wordning did sound rigid, that's why I asked more questions. I didn't want to assume that what you were saying was a hard line, and not something that have room negotiation.

If no kids are present, would it not be a possibility for N to see if his other partner wanted to have a couple sleep over (at one home or the other) during the nights you are not available, and then he'd possibly being free one extra night while you are not working? To me this would be a plus. If I were N and it worked out with both my partners then I'd get an extra night with each of you.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2013, 07:13 PM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Murasaki-absolutely! We had help from our adult daughter and her husband, my mom and stepdad and my sister. The other family is spread far enough they werent readily available.
But- as noted, this wasn't a request to stop a relationship, deter or even set boundaries on frequency of visits/contact.
It was actually a request to not have her in my presence while I was already suffering. Ironically-she wouldnt know, but it wasnt just her. I dont care for any people I am not close to around me during a crisis.
Even in labor and delivery, no nurses, no friends, no extra family. Just my SO and dr (or midwife).
Medical vulnerability for me is significant and I dont want people I dont trust *in that circumstance* around me.

Which-in my opinion is a minor request.

But it erupted into a shitstorm that acquaintances in Washington who were involved in helping start the poly group here witnessed.
I suppose its telling that I exited silently.
The drama ensued.
It took about a year and most of the original people reached out to me with "I just didnt know what to do" explanations.
But for me personally-I see it as a burned bridge.

I don't accept that its ok to stand by and allow someone to be so abusive (details logged in other threads) and a group not step up and say "we dont allow that behavior in our social events". Its not side taking. Its expecting adult behavior. But-that is not the attitude here.
I have read some of your story, and do recall that you prefer to have very very few people around during labor and delivery include your SO's. So it makes sense that this preference is for all medical issues. I actually very much appreciate your poly style. It is closer to what I prefer.

I will eventually get caught up on your story. >.>
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2013, 02:12 AM
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Inyourendo Inyourendo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murasaki View Post
Your original wordning did sound rigid, that's why I asked more questions. I didn't want to assume that what you were saying was a hard line, and not something that have room negotiation.

If no kids are present, would it not be a possibility for N to see if his other partner wanted to have a couple sleep over (at one home or the other) during the nights you are not available, and then he'd possibly being free one extra night while you are not working? To me this would be a plus. If I were N and it worked out with both my partners then I'd get an extra night with each of you.
He currently has option to see her 4 nights a week as it. We aren't concerned about hiding Anything from the kids. She often brings her kids here and sleeps over
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:24 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murasaki View Post
. . . I created this thread hoping to get discussion going about how relationship actually affect each other. How successful (or new) poly people handle the changes that come into their lives as partners come and go. I am hoping that more people will post their points of view so that poly people who come here to read and learn can get points of view in a non-threatening, non-argumentative manner.
This site's been around a number of years and there are are plenty of non-threatening, non-argumentative threads here where one can find tips, advice, and a multitude of perspectives on how each relationship one has can affect another (or not), and various other aspects of polyamory - all one need do is use the search function or visit our Golden Nuggets forum to find them. Oh, there are so many good ones here!
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-02-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:27 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Nyc-
That's true, but there's nothing wrong with starting a new thread either.

I would say there might be something wrong with a person who feels the need to argue every thread they post on (not aimed at you-just pointing out the thought).
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:43 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Nyc-
That's true, but there's nothing wrong with starting a new thread either.

I would say there might be something wrong with a person who feels the need to argue every thread they post on (not aimed at you-just pointing out the thought).
I never said there was anything wrong with starting a new thread on this topic - sure, sounds good to get various points of view on how relationships affect each other. However, it also sounded like the OP has been seeing so many argumentative threads here lately that he appeared to be saying that is all we have here or that this thread would be some sort of remedy for that, so I wondered if perhaps he hadn't found some of the wonderfully compassionate, funny, uplifting, and joyful threads (where there are no arguments) that already exist here.

We have a Golden Nuggets forum for a reason, and there's "nothing wrong" with directing people to it.
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:08 AM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I never said there was anything wrong with starting a new thread on this topic - sure, sounds good to get various points of view on how relationships affect each other. However, it also sounded like the OP has been seeing so many argumentative threads here lately that he appeared to be saying that is all we have here or that this thread would be some sort of remedy for that, so I wondered if perhaps he hadn't found some of the wonderfully compassionate, funny, uplifting, and joyful threads (where there are no arguments) that already exist here.

We have a Golden Nuggets forum for a reason, and there's "nothing wrong" with directing people to it.

Yes I have read a large portion of the threads in the "golden nuggets" Master thread section. Some of those threads are much older, and are no longer actively being talked about. And yes i have also noticed that a lot of the post I am interested in reading turn into arguments that derail to OP's topic. I'm not looking to remedy that. But I do feel I am within the rules to request someone stay on topic, and not derail my thread with arguments. I did the proper thing and answered some of the questions brought up, and made it clear that I was giving the benefit of the doubt in doing so.

I have done several searches on topics I was interested. These search in no way bring positive older threads back to the top of discussion. Sure I could make a post and "bump" an old thread up hoping people will find it still valid, and continue the discussion. However I have been a lurker here for more than a year, so I have not attempted "bumping" any threads thus far. But Yes I have done a lot of reading (mostly in the blogs, and master thread.) and found plenty of joyful and uplifting threads.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:54 AM
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Re (from Murasaki):
Quote:
"What rules, privileges, responsibilities, and expectations do you have in your various relationships and did those relationship start with those rules? or did they grow to include them, or did you have a relationship that had to adjust itself to accommodate changes to the rules it had?"
I guess I'm in luck for this particular thread since I have a poly-fi relationship, and it has been a trio from the start. I guess I did have a "phase of exploration" where I attempted to get somewhere on a couple of dating sites, but that all basically fizzled.

The basic deal in my V is that there's no sex outside the V, and if we ever become an N or M or whatever, it will be a gradual process, and depend on all four (five, etc.) of us getting along well together. These are rules that the three of us agreed to right from the start. Since then it has kind of been clarified that any "outside dating" any of us does, the new person must be introduced to the whole V right away, emails are to be openly shared with the whole V, and everyone must be kept updated on how the dating is going.

All of these rules/agreements were basically negotiated between all three of us from the start, and though I am the unmarried member of the V and the other two persons in it are married to each other, they don't have anything I'd call "couple privelage" per se. We consider all three of us to be "primary partners," and my two married companions have worked hard through the years to make me feel like a co-primary with them. So it has been, right from the beginning.

On the other hand, "the beginning" was in 2006: that's when the three of us decided to join forces as a poly unit. Before that, we had been friends, going back about as far as 1995. So it's not like we were just barely starting to date and get to know each other. We already had a strong base of trust and commitment towards each other.

Our poly life together has been turbulent at times and we've had to learn some things the hard way, but what's important is that we always learned and grew together. There was never a dynamic of two (married) people telling the third (unmarried) person how it was going to be -- nor the other way around. We have always tried to make all our major decisions together as a three-person unit.
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