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  #111  
Old 09-29-2013, 12:44 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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Correction: I would refer to them simply by their name.

I would not say "This is Prof he is just my friend". I have and would say, "This my friend, Prof."

Personally, I would be mortified if he introduced me to someone as his " lover".

I met a few of his friends at the pub this week, he introduced me as Atlantis, nothing else.

In my head he is my lover, I am his.

I also IMed Kip, he said similar, friend in public, lover and play partner in his head.

So we, meaning the 3 of us, are all in agreement. We have a few labels we use in our heads, those I will not repeat here and one we would use in public.

I think as long as you are in agreement with your partners then whatever works for y'all is best.
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Last edited by Atlantis; 09-29-2013 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Kip added more info
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  #112  
Old 09-29-2013, 12:48 AM
Eponine Eponine is offline
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Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
I would never refer to some one I love as "just a friend", I would find that highly insulting and demeaning of our relationship to be "just a friend".~ I wouldn't mind calling them BOTH "my friend and lover".~
What's insulting to me is the phrase "just a friend", because it implies that friendships are inherently inferior to romance. Platonic friendships can be as significant as romantic relationships, and all my SOs are my friends first and foremost.

That said, since most people perceive friendships as lesser than romantic relationships, I'd prefer to refer to my SOs as "special friends" or "romantic/affectionate friends" to distinguish them from casual friends. But we wouldn't mind introducing each other as only "friends" to people who don't need to know the full details (e.g. people who we'll never meet again), because our relationship configuration is too complicated to explain.
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Last edited by Eponine; 09-29-2013 at 12:52 AM.
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  #113  
Old 09-29-2013, 01:04 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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Originally Posted by Eponine View Post
But we wouldn't mind introducing each other as only "friends" to people who don't need to know the full details (e.g. people who we'll never meet again), because our relationship configuration is too complicated to explain.
This, much better than I put it, thanks.
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  #114  
Old 09-29-2013, 04:17 AM
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ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Eponine View Post
What's insulting to me is the phrase "just a friend", because it implies that friendships are inherently inferior to romance. Platonic friendships can be as significant as romantic relationships, and all my SOs are my friends first and foremost.

That said, since most people perceive friendships as lesser than romantic relationships, I'd prefer to refer to my SOs as "special friends" or "romantic/affectionate friends" to distinguish them from casual friends. But we wouldn't mind introducing each other as only "friends" to people who don't need to know the full details (e.g. people who we'll never meet again), because our relationship configuration is too complicated to explain.
I didn't consider that, thank you for helping me open my mind.~ ^_^

I guess I would consider every one my friend, because that's just the way I am I like to be friendly towards every one.~

When I find that some one who will love me back, I can finally call them my "lover" and not just call myself a "lover".~
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  #115  
Old 09-29-2013, 05:05 AM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Defining "friend"

What a fascinating point to have reached in this thread. In some cultures, like in German-speaking parts of the world, the word "friend" is reserved for what Americans call "best friends." You might have a few, in your whole liftetime. People you pour your soul out to may be no more, in the language, than "good acquaintances." And that's not a slam! It means you only did it once, twice, a few times, but not... all the time.

The American use of "friend" comes from being "friendly," perhaps, but many Europeans see that as superficial small talk. (I disagree, but that's for another conversation.) For me, it highlights the role of implicit meaning in language - we've already heard different opinons on "lover," and now "friend" has nuance, as well. I love listening in on these conversations. Thanks, folks!
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  #116  
Old 09-29-2013, 07:41 AM
Eponine Eponine is offline
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Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
What a fascinating point to have reached in this thread. In some cultures, like in German-speaking parts of the world, the word "friend" is reserved for what Americans call "best friends." You might have a few, in your whole liftetime. People you pour your soul out to may be no more, in the language, than "good acquaintances." And that's not a slam! It means you only did it once, twice, a few times, but not... all the time.

The American use of "friend" comes from being "friendly," perhaps, but many Europeans see that as superficial small talk. (I disagree, but that's for another conversation.) For me, it highlights the role of implicit meaning in language - we've already heard different opinons on "lover," and now "friend" has nuance, as well. I love listening in on these conversations. Thanks, folks!
Yeah, I think "friend" in English is too broad. Someone you hardly talk to expect for saying "happy birthday" on Facebook once a year is a friend; someone you can take a bullet for is also a friend. Personally I prefer a stricter definition of "friend", not necessarily as strict as in those German-speaking cultures, but at least someone I share a deep connection with, someone I really enjoy spending time with, someone I'll miss if they move away, etc. Maybe it's because I'm super introverted and only need a few real friends. I'm not interested in shallow friendships, and some people who consider me a friend are only acquaintances in my mind.
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  #117  
Old 09-29-2013, 05:06 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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The impact of titles on a relationship (romantic, business, or otherwise) is an interesting topic.

Titles are basically a short hand for quickly getting across a number of general assumptions. The assumptions aren't always identical for a title from one audience to another, but for frequently used titles there are a basic set which most people are aware of.

This is John, my __________:

Assumptions:
Boss - please don't say "fuck" in front of him because he can fire me
Buddy - we have some kind of hobby in common (football, hunting, fishing) and hang out socially on occasion
Boyfriend - we've been dating long enough to decide we want to make a go of it, we are exclusive romantically and sexually
Husband - we are legally married, plan to stay together the rest of our lives, probably will have kids, and are exclusive romantically and sexually
We drop these titles to give everyone a basic idea of who this person is, how they relate to us personally, and to suggest how the audience might interact with them. It's not a perfect system, obviously, because the exact definitions of these terms are usually not discussed and they are pretty general.

When I bring someone out to meet my crew and I say "this is my friend, Carl", my friends can assume that I've vetted Carl, that he's not a complete idiot, and that I'd like for them to give him a break.

If on the other hand I say "this is Carl, we met online and I invited him to hang with us" this lets them know that I have *not* vetted Carl and that he's a wild card. If he turns out to be a jackass it's not my fault.

If I introduce IV to my friends as "my girlfriend, IV" unfortunately it provides them with a set of assumptions which are not all true. It's the same when someone asks me "do you have a girlfriend?"... they are not asking me if I have a partner in the way that *I* relate (which is an uncommon approach to put it mildly), they are asking me if I have a partner in the way that people *commonly* have partners. So while my answer to this question is "yes"... it's also kind of "no, not in the way you mean it"
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  #118  
Old 09-29-2013, 07:01 PM
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ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponine View Post
Yeah, I think "friend" in English is too broad. Someone you hardly talk to expect for saying "happy birthday" on Facebook once a year is a friend; someone you can take a bullet for is also a friend. Personally I prefer a stricter definition of "friend", not necessarily as strict as in those German-speaking cultures, but at least someone I share a deep connection with, someone I really enjoy spending time with, someone I'll miss if they move away, etc. Maybe it's because I'm super introverted and only need a few real friends. I'm not interested in shallow friendships, and some people who consider me a friend are only acquaintances in my mind.
The only kind of "shallow" friendships to me are those based upon not being friendly simply for the sake of being friendly or wanting a friend, but those based upon "shallow" factors such as looks, status, and prestige.~
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  #119  
Old 09-29-2013, 07:02 PM
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ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The impact of titles on a relationship (romantic, business, or otherwise) is an interesting topic.

Titles are basically a short hand for quickly getting across a number of general assumptions. The assumptions aren't always identical for a title from one audience to another, but for frequently used titles there are a basic set which most people are aware of.

This is John, my __________:

Assumptions:
Boss - please don't say "fuck" in front of him because he can fire me
Buddy - we have some kind of hobby in common (football, hunting, fishing) and hang out socially on occasion
Boyfriend - we've been dating long enough to decide we want to make a go of it, we are exclusive romantically and sexually
Husband - we are legally married, plan to stay together the rest of our lives, probably will have kids, and are exclusive romantically and sexually
We drop these titles to give everyone a basic idea of who this person is, how they relate to us personally, and to suggest how the audience might interact with them. It's not a perfect system, obviously, because the exact definitions of these terms are usually not discussed and they are pretty general.

When I bring someone out to meet my crew and I say "this is my friend, Carl", my friends can assume that I've vetted Carl, that he's not a complete idiot, and that I'd like for them to give him a break.

If on the other hand I say "this is Carl, we met online and I invited him to hang with us" this lets them know that I have *not* vetted Carl and that he's a wild card. If he turns out to be a jackass it's not my fault.

If I introduce IV to my friends as "my girlfriend, IV" unfortunately it provides them with a set of assumptions which are not all true. It's the same when someone asks me "do you have a girlfriend?"... they are not asking me if I have a partner in the way that *I* relate (which is an uncommon approach to put it mildly), they are asking me if I have a partner in the way that people *commonly* have partners. So while my answer to this question is "yes"... it's also kind of "no, not in the way you mean it"
Thank you for sharing that with us, Marcus.~ That was beautiful!~ ^_^
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  #120  
Old 09-29-2013, 07:44 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Originally Posted by Eponine View Post
What's insulting to me is the phrase "just a friend", because it implies that friendships are inherently inferior to romance. Platonic friendships can be as significant as romantic relationships, and all my SOs are my friends first and foremost.

That said, since most people perceive friendships as lesser than romantic relationships, I'd prefer to refer to my SOs as "special friends" or "romantic/affectionate friends" to distinguish them from casual friends. But we wouldn't mind introducing each other as only "friends" to people who don't need to know the full details (e.g. people who we'll never meet again), because our relationship configuration is too complicated to explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
What a fascinating point to have reached in this thread. In some cultures, like in German-speaking parts of the world, the word "friend" is reserved for what Americans call "best friends." You might have a few, in your whole liftetime. People you pour your soul out to may be no more, in the language, than "good acquaintances." And that's not a slam! It means you only did it once, twice, a few times, but not... all the time.

The American use of "friend" comes from being "friendly," perhaps, but many Europeans see that as superficial small talk. (I disagree, but that's for another conversation.) For me, it highlights the role of implicit meaning in language - we've already heard different opinons on "lover," and now "friend" has nuance, as well. I love listening in on these conversations. Thanks, folks!
Yup, this.

I very much hesitate calling someone a friend - instead of just a(n) "(good) acquaintance" - if there isn't a mutual bond of love between us, regardless of whether that love is purely platonic or something else; and I think that's one thing that social networks have badly diluted... IMO, noone in this world has hundreds or thousands of friends; if you've got five or six friends in your life, that life is in the truest sense of the word a splendidly fulfilled one.

So, I personally do not see a difference between a healthy partnership and "(best) friends with (whatever kind of) benefits"... describing R. and me as each other's best friends seems pretty much spot on.

(And yeah... native German speaker here.)
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