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  #11  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:36 PM
sleepygirl sleepygirl is offline
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I, too, have cried over some of the horrors I've seen at births. The first one of my friends that I saw give birth was when I was 16. So was she. It was a textbook handled, over-managed all-Amurrican birth trauma. That experience was what sent me running for a midwife from the very first time I was pregnant. I didn't 100% know about midwives or home birth, but I knew I didn't want that!

I only have one hospital birth experience of my own. With my 4th child, I had bells palsy. That almost always means delivery 4-5 weeks early, and thus I was remanded to an OB. The doc herself was quite friendly, understood that I was used to birthing naturally and quickly at home, agreed to my every whim and concern about birthing in the hospital. I thought I was gold, that I could have another phenomenal birth experience despite the hospital. I went into natural labor, 4 weeks before my son's EDD. It was 4 am when I went in, my doc wasn't there, and because I had no signed birth plan, I was subject to the demands of the nurses and the on-call doc, who basically made no bones about the fact she viewed me as just one more cow for the cattle chute. It was humiliating. It didn't matter what I wanted or what I said, it was control and interference from the get go. Trapped on my back, strapped to machines, the whole nine yards, pumped full of pitocin, for no medical reason. It was horrid. Still, I was sure when MY doc got there, things would change. Ha. In reality, I should have known better. I really should have. I've done hours, days of reading and research. I'd read thousands of "what went wrong" kind of stories. I knew, but it was head knowledge. In my heart, I didn't know yet, how brutal, how mechanical and managed birth can be here. I do now. In its own way, it was a lesson I can look back at and be thankful for, in that, I now have a taste of what is the only birth experience some women ever have. (God, what a painful and frightening thought!) Hopefully, it will make me a better birth assistant in the long run.

And yay! Now I just have to scare up the money for my certifications... heh.
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  #12  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:45 PM
sleepygirl sleepygirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyourendo View Post
My last 2 babies were unassisted homebirths and amazing.
I totally forgot. I was going to add we just had our first on purpose unassisted birth a few months ago. It was a.w.e.s.o.m.e. (My teeny boy is currently sleep-nursing in my lap as I type.) We had an accidental unassisted birth with my oldest daughter. Daddy delivered both.
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  #13  
Old 09-24-2013, 05:25 PM
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Inyourendo Inyourendo is online now
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My first 2 kids was birth center (induced ay 36 week) and hospital birth (40 week) thankfully both labors and births was fast and easy with minimal interventions but I know so many things can go wrong. I'm so glad I remarried and had my girls at home. By the time I learned about homebirth my ex was fixed and he was pro hospital birth anyway.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:29 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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I've given birth both in the States and in Europe. Every single experience in the US was far, far better than that in Europe.

I would say that having limits on who can be in the room has less to do with discrimination than simply recognizing it's a room ready for emergencies and too many people in the way is a problem if something goes wrong.
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:57 AM
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alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
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My first delivery is nothing like any one else has posted. I am not sure why, maybe it's the state and town it was in but it was awesome even for a regular ob/gyn and hospital.

My oldest was delivered in Jan 1998 in a suburb of Portland, OR. My birth room had a tub (never got to use due to have fast I hit 10 cm) and I had in the room the entire time:

DH, my mom, my sister, my 8 year old niece, my 2 year old nephew and my step dad. No one had to leave at all. They were all there for the pushing and actual birth (yeah mom took some candid pics of baby's head).

My second was in a pretty liberal state and at a Catholic hospital. Up until the moment when they decided I had to have a c-section, all the same family members were allowed in the birthing room. No one was going to have to leave. For my c-section, only DH was allowed in the operating room and I am happy that was the case (he took some fantastic pics too).

My third was 8 weeks early and due to the emergency of the situation, they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off, I had to be convinced to sign a form to negate having my tubes tied. There was more time (my fault as I had to understand the ramifications of why they wanted me to sign it...this is what I said "...so are you asking me to sign this cuz for some couples who loose a child at birth, one of the ways they get over their grief is to have another child...?" The answer was partly but found out later it was due to other reasons) spent on informing me the baby was not going to make it, that she probably would not be born alive, etc etc etc.

I have to say, I'm grateful of how the ER ob/gyn and one of my ob's discussed the reality of the situation with me. The only thing they weren't telling me was I had lost 3 pints of blood and I might not make it either. Through out the entire process all decisions were discussed with me prior to any staff doing anything, like the anetheologist discussing my spinal versus epidural, giving me the spinal to the actual operation of the c-section. They (the hospital staff) discussed everything with me, getting my ok's and what not. When they took my youngest out, she had flat lined a few minutes before hand, there were no screams, nothing and about a minute later she let us all know she was here. I never had a transfusion or anything (a miracle I've been told). The nicu was very family friendly, breastfeeding friendly, kangaroo bonding friendly. My 8 week premie came home at day 14 (more due to my involvement than anything else).

But I just wanted to point out not all US Births or doctors are as horrible as what is being discussed here. Maybe it's due to being in the Pacific Northwest, maybe not.
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  #16  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:05 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Ermm, Ali, this may be cultural and all but....that IS actually terrifying to me.

The majority of the time in the UK at least, they discuss emergency procedure during the pregnancy, this negates having papers flying in front of your face during labour. To be honest, I find that all rather shocking. I am glad you have felt your experiences were positive ones though and I am so happy to hear your baby was fine after that scare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I've given birth both in the States and in Europe. Every single experience in the US was far, far better than that in Europe.
Where in the tickety boo is "Europe"? There are many, many countries here all with different health services and different standards of care. We have so far been talking of the UK's National Health Service, no one from other parts of "Europe" have contributed yet, so where is it you speak of?
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2013, 08:37 AM
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I found that American women found our service undesirable because we wouldn't do things like give them epidurals when they are not in active labour, induce labour because she was over being pregnant or because we refuse to suction healthy neonates. They had been so brainwashed by a system where doctors are paid for every intervention they perform, that they thought these things were actually safer for the baby.
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2013, 01:10 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Where in the tickety boo is "Europe"? There are many, many countries here all with different health services and different standards of care. We have so far been talking of the UK's National Health Service, no one from other parts of "Europe" have contributed yet, so where is it you speak of?
The UK.

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Originally Posted by london View Post
I found that American women found our service undesirable because we wouldn't do things like give them epidurals when they are not in active labour, induce labour because she was over being pregnant or because we refuse to suction healthy neonates. They had been so brainwashed by a system where doctors are paid for every intervention they perform, that they thought these things were actually safer for the baby.
Are you suggesting that if someone dislikes US cares, it' evidence it's bad, but if someone dislikes UK care, it's evidence they're brainwashed? Or better yet, a brainwashed whiner who wants what she wants right now, when she wants it?

My problem with my experience there is that in a place that prided itself on having about the best maternal care in the world, I had severe bleeding which I realized after future pregnancies was long-term hemorrhaging. They sent me home like that. And among other things, they did induce labor, which led to other issues.
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  #19  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:16 PM
london london is offline
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No I was giving my experience of looking after American women as a midwife. They wanted us to do things that were not supported by evidence and felt that they were entitled to have these interventions because they would have been allowed or even recommended them in the US.

Induction is often medically indicated, but inducing someone simply because they have a few of the side effects of being heavily pregnant or to fit around a particular date is not a appropriate medical indication. It was very hard to get many of the US clients to understand this, along with getting them to understand why you cannot have an epidural when you are not in established labour. They would be the ones to tell us that "In America, you can have an epidural at 1cm" (as well as the fact that we see it on TV). They couldn't understand that their doctors have an incentive to ignore evidence based practice that minimises intervention because it means they get less money per birth.

And believe me, I have seen shocking practice here, in fact, a mother in my son's class died a couple of months ago after having a section. The difference here is that the system is set up to be evidence based and promote normal birth. That isn't the case in the US. That is the fundamental difference.
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  #20  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:25 PM
sleepygirl sleepygirl is offline
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Well, before we descend into mommy war madness... let's stop for a sec, shall we? Everybody breathe... ok, ready to go on?

Look, london has a valid point. Most American women are inclined towards epidurals and induction. Evidence based care is not the "norm" for this country. She and I had already been talking back and forth about this subject. I don't know that what she said was a specific poke at you, WH. You and Ali also have a valid point. Not everyone's hospital experiences here have been awful. There are good ones too. My good ones just happen to be at home instead, that's all.

Maternity care and birth are different everywhere. I'm sure we could nitpick the bad in every single country. It's more effective and beneficial, however, to find the good and reinforce it. Who doesn't want better birth, right? Isn't that the goal? Better births mean better babies and better mamas. Yes, we have to talk about the bad too. We have to assess it, learn from it, and find ways to make it better. Birth trauma and birth rape are very, very real and damaging experiences. Healing these wounds in our mothers sometimes requires extensive and painful conversation.

But we can surely have this dialogue without stabbing one another over opinions and experiences, yes? The free flow of information and respect will serve us more effectively.


ETA: I see london posted while I was still typing. I hadn't seen her response before I posted. Sorry. I'm gonna let this post stand as it is though.
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Last edited by sleepygirl; 09-25-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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