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  #191  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:49 AM
london london is offline
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That we did agree to always live together no matter what till Wolf becomes an adult (or as long as she lives at home).
Have you considered that having two, or even one, unhappy parent in the home may not be best for your child?

I also think that it probably isn't in the best interests of your child to move her away from her father. Her needs should come before yours or his. I think you are looking for ways to make him choose. I'm actually going to stop reading this thread altogether because I just find it seriously upsetting when adults behave in this way. Like I literally have a lump in my throat.
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  #192  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Iíll attempt to clear up what is either a misunderstanding, a mis communication, an assumption, or just completely unclear all together.

First:
Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Have you considered that having two, or even one, unhappy parent in the home may not be best for your child?
Airynís decision to get his own place/move out will be made despite our YOUTHFUL agreement(s) to live together. That is not truly being taken into consideration. It is a fact however that Airyn has used this agreement in arguments where/when I have attempted to kick him out. If you have read my recent post on Airyn moving out you will see that this is where things are headed. At this moment Airyn getting his own place is the decision Airyn has made. What have you read that makes you think Airyn and I will live together in such a way that we are unhappy at home?

Which brings me to another point.

There are many, MANY configuration where two people (adults) can live together despite their differences. (One example). Some configurations require or expect a large amount of interactions between the two, while others expect a lot less or even no interactions. What Airyn and I decide will be what we see as our BEST option for US. Just because I do not talk about Wolfís views, or concerns, desires when it comes to this does not mean that she has not been taken into consideration.

WOLF has a voice of her own. She has a place in deciding to move, or not move. She has a place in deciding where she will live, and how she will spend her time should Airyn and I split, temporarily, or for good. She is already being included, and her opinions, concerns, and stated wants/desires are being considered. Wolf is all for moving out of state, She was all for it before Chipmunk, and is even more interested as she has gotten to know my family better, and has become dissatisfied with certain things relating to Chipmunk.


Moving out of state is a decision that has been discussed and put off for various reason over the course of several years (at least 5). This is not a new sudden ďtime to moveĒ thing. And is not something that is happening right now. It is something that is in the planning stages with the expectation of moving next year.
Also Airyn has been on board with move from the very first time we discussed it, and is still on board today. As a matter of fact Airyn has taken many of the first steps in helping this proposed move happen. On a related note: a few months ago Airyn and I got an offer to move out of the country, Airyn was very very interested in this possibility. He was actively seeking to understand how to make this move a reality, and this is still a possibility. How difficult would it be for Airyn to hold on to a relationship with Chipmunk (who gets unreasonably upset after 7 days time not seeing Airyn, or 2-3 days not hearing from him-with or without being informed of Airyn lack of availability) if we decide to move out of the country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I think you are looking for ways to make him choose.
Airyn has so far been unwilling to make a choice. His choice (as I have stated before) is to NOT choose. His decision does not prevent me from making my own decision. Iím not willing to do/participate in certain things. If a decision on Airynís part requires, or expects me to participate in something I am not ok with, or not comfortable with I am quite capable of deciding to remove myself from the equation.
Yes this decision does take Airynís choice to have both myself and Chipmunk as SOís in his life away from him on my side of that equation. That does not make my decision wrong. It makes my decision my own. Making a decision that expects more from someone than they have stated they are willing to do/give is a risk. Airyn is taking that risk in what is for me an extreme way.

There are several motives for moving.
1 - To live closer to my own family Who gets to say that itís in Wolfís best interest to not have the opportunity to know her motherís family?

2 - Opportunity. There are better opportunities for all three of us in the cities/neighborhoods Airyn and I are looking at moving to. Education for Wolf, Job opportunities for Airyn, and I. Better housing options, plus more opportunity to explore our various hobbies without large amounts of travel being involved. An all around better/healthier environment that includes certain other opportunities Iíve not talked about.

3 - the obvious one for me to get away from Airynís relationship with Chipmunk.
3a. To protect myself, and Wolf for the potential harmful contact that Chipmunk appears to be capable of. A restraining order is only a piece of paper it is not actual protection if the person chooses to ignore it, and do harm any way. I have been considering a restraining order for several months (4ish). And I know that if the person you are attempting to restrain chooses to ignore the order the only thing you can go is call for help. It is an illusion of protection nothing more.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #193  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:30 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Quote:
Yes this decision does take Airynís choice to have both myself and Chipmunk as SOís in his life away from him on my side of that equation.
This is actually not entirely accurate. Airyn could still continue to pursue both relationships in tandem. One as a LDR, and one local.
I had a boss a few years back whoís wife and three children lived several thousand miles away. They only saw each other, on weekends, holidays, vacations, should their various schedules permit. That setup worked well for my Boss and his Wife. Perhaps that would work for Airyn as well. It would not be exactly what he wants, but then we canít all have exactly what we want can we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I also think that it probably isn't in the best interests of your child to move her away from her father.
This is laughable to me. At what point have I stated that I am moving Wolf away from her father? For all anyone here knows Wolf will be living with her father full time. Or she may choose to spend school times with one parent, and vacation/summers with another. Or she may choose to be home schooled again so she can more easily switch between living with one parent or the other as she see fit.

Wolf is not a child so much any more. While she is also not an adult she is intelligent, and very much capable of making her own decisions, mistakes, ect. Not all kids/children her age are at that mental level, but she is. When presented with something in a calm manner she is more than willing to take it in, think about it, and discuss it later to come to a conclusion of her own.

Does this clear things up at all for anyone?
Does it leave more questions than answers?
Is it upsetting to you personally?

Feel free to ask questions. If you choose to write a response in a way that can be taken in a negative tone then itís probably best to make a PM versus a post to my blog. Iím willing to read and consider the opinions, and experiences of other people, but i do not view others experience, and opinions as superior to my own, nor do I put a (normally) whole lot of stock into the opinions of strangers. This does not mean that I donít ever get my feeling hurt, by the opinion of a stranger. It means (for me) that if/when an opinion has such a negative effect it ends up holding less weight in my thought process (once Iíve processed what was said and how I feel about it).

The opinions and advice offered by someone who knows me, my family, and has had a better view of the situation holds much more weight in the end.

Has anyone noticed that as I have written more in these few weeks Iím less angry, less venting then I was when I first came to writing in this blog or even just a few months ago?

Perhaps itís just me, but I feel that things are changing. Some changes will be good, some may not be so good. I however am willing to make the best of what comes next, and choose where i will go, and what i will do via conversations within my family. And yes that includes Wolf, and Airyn.

What ever else Airyn and I are to each other we are still the others closest friend. Perhaps his moving out will allow us to heal and be able to live together again as more then just roommates, perhaps not. I'm no entirely stuck expecting any particular conclusion. Sure I have a preference, but preferences can and do change.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #194  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:55 PM
london london is offline
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At what point have I stated that I am moving Wolf away from her father?

Quote:
I am determined to move after this school year. I have talked and talked for 5+ years about moving closer to some of my family. Now I’m determined to actually do it. I told Airyn that I’m moving because I have wanted to for years, and because I want to get away from his relationship with Chipmunk. I am moving with or without him.

How did Airyn take that? Not well. His initial response was that I’m telling him I’m move thousands of miles away and taking his daughter where he won’t see her very often.

I explained that how often Wolf sees either of us is up to her. That she’ll likely spend school times with one, and summer/holiday times with the other. I also pointed out that she may chose to switch whom she lives with during school times every other year. Wolf is old enough to think for herself and make that kind of decision. That ended that conversation. He can’t point his finger at me as “taking Wolf from him”.
I am only answering this here like this because you asked as well as sent me a pm directing me to respond to this here. This is where you said that you will be taking the child away. Yes, you state that she will have to decide what she wants to do but it is the state of your relationship that is forcing this choice.

The last thing I'll say is what I would do if I was in this situation which is to acknowledge that a) my husband and I are incompatible b) that our incompatibility is making us both unhappy and very much more than likely impacting on our kid and thus it is unfair for us to continue it. I get that financially, you might not be able to move away from each other, but I cannot see you guys ending up the amicable exes nicely sharing a home whilst being able to live your own lives without interference from one another. Again, if I was in that situation, I would make it a priority to have our own space as quickly as possible. From there, who knows? We might be able to reconnect, but the first priority is to end the madness, for your kids sake and I cannot see you acheiving that without emotional and/or physical distance. Good luck.
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  #195  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:59 PM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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So hard when the other person in your life is not making decisions. I have that issue in my relationship with my husband. I told him it was a very bdsm dynamic. He then is in total control, by not making a decision. It forces me to make decisions in my life and he gets to blame me and be responsible for his own life. I get to be labeled controlling. I am furious with that. I am not the bad guy for choosing to be responsible for running our life and making my child safe.

I think your plan of going through with your life plans and living life is the most healthly decision of all. I have a fourteen year old dd, she is fully aware of her Dad's life choices. She has told him her feelings about this and told him that they aren't healthly for her. She has let him know he is choosing to make her home an unhealthly place for her. She picks up on his choices and mine. She told me that my last partner was a problem for her. She let me know that she felt I distanced from her. The difference is I listened and acted in a respectful manner. I also apologized and then worked that out with my long term boyfriend, so it did work better for her.

My husband and I live in the same house but are separated, by my choice. He is also my best friend. It is hard to say that but he continues to be. He finally had a wake up call recently when his individual counselor told him that there is no point in counseling as he makes agreements and then chooses without disclosing not to follow these simple agreements. That it is a total waste of money to keep doing the same thing over and over again.

I know this is a sad time for you, and I fully applaud you for moving forward with long term plans. I fully applaud you for showing Wolfe that you are a strong woman and despite the problems in your life your moving forward with it. I agree that Wolfe knows her mind and as long as you honor her wishes but still parent, this is a healthier path, then waiting in limbo for Aaryn.

By caring for your self first you are caring for Wolfe best!!!!
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  #196  
Old 09-23-2013, 05:08 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
I think your plan of going through with your life plans and living life is the most healthly decision of all. I have a fourteen year old dd, she is fully aware of her Dad's life choices.
. . .
He is also my best friend. It is hard to say that but he continues to be.
Ahhh see you understand, and also have a child in the right age group as Wolf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
By caring for your self first you are caring for Wolfe best!!!!
Wolf and I have talked a lot about the things that are going on. What she sees, hears, and understands. What she doesnít fully understand (usually from lack of info) she asks about. And this statement she gets 100%.

Twice Wolf has told me that if I have to get out sooner then her school schedule allows for then I should do so. Not just in the particular instance of moving out of state. She has her own frustrations with her father, and loves him very much. She works at spending quality time with him whenever they can make it happen. She was very displeased by several events that affected her, and her relationship to her father. It took a good bit of time and notes, discussions, arguments with Airyn for him to realize what was happening. Over all Airyn loves his child very much, it was his blindness in NRE with Chipmunk that has caused issues and stress in his relationships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
I know this is a sad time for you, and I fully applaud you for moving forward with long term plans. I fully applaud you for showing Wolfe that you are a strong woman and despite the problems in your life your moving forward with it. I agree that Wolfe knows her mind and as long as you honor her wishes but still parent, this is a healthier path, then waiting in limbo for Aaryn.
Wolf knows that getting out of this situation, and into a place where we have more family will be a better place overall. She also understands that her father can make his own decisions. On my end I have to do what is right for me, and Wolf. Airyn sees that this choice is right for all of us, to move. His hang up is Chipmunk.

Many times Airyn has talked about how unlikely it is that any relationship between him and Chipmunk will last due to their incompatibility. As far as the compatibility between Airyn and I goes, that is a partial question mark. There has been an increase in distance between us, we were once very very compatible, and probably still are. There was just a pause that has changed the landscape between us. So we now have to discover if the changes are more than we can work through, or are just a rather bumpy road we can learn to travel past together. Airyn will always be my closest friend. I have offered him more then once the opportunity to work out some kind of living arrangement with me. In one instance he dropped the ball completely (NRE? fear? donít know why doesnít matter now). In the second he was telling me what I wanted to hear, but was not hearing what I was telling him. His feeling were sincere, but did not fit with my needs then (or now).

Honestly I see Airyn moving out as heís currently planning to do. Getting the space we need from each other, and talking when we are both ok with doing so. I also see him considering the pros and cons of a life tied to Chipmunk (which he has been doing more in the last month or two). He talked last night about looking for closure. Heís not saying that heís ending things out right, just that he wants/needs closure on certain things that have happened. And due to circumstance he doesnít currently have a place that he can feel in control of his environment and the flow of conversation to air grievances between him and Chipmunk (and the two of us though he didnít say that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
This is where you said that you will be taking the child away. Yes, you state that she will have to decide what she wants to do but it is the state of your relationship that is forcing this choice.
The state of my relationship with Airyn will be forcing this choice no matter where I live (once Airyn and I are no longer living together). Never once have I said that I was TAKING Wolf with me. I have either chosen not to say anything when accused of this, or have pointed out that where Wolf lives is not up to me, and that if Airyn wants more time with Wolf he will have to show her that, and talk with her, not me.

Again - If her father and I are not living in the same home she has to decide where she will stay (when, how long, ect.). In one set of circumstance (same city two homes) that decision can be for as little as a single day, and as much as several months. (She will soon be seeing how that works, and how she feels about it in the moment) In the event of moving to another state her decision will by necessity need to be for at least a week (more likely 2-3 weeks) at a time depending on cost of travel, and income between her father and I. This is something she may never have to deal with, but is already thinking about.

One more time for clarities sake. Airyn and I splitting up PHYSICALLY living in two different location even within the same city will put Wolf in the position of having to decide which home she stays at. She may find that she ENJOYS having more space, and a second home, or she may HATE it. Either way she will let us BOTH know her thoughts and feelings (probably separately at first). We will all talk about it as a family, and make our decision from there. (I know my child and I fully expect that she will actively work towards Airyn and I living together.)

My decision to move is made, and approved of by Wolf, and Airyn. The only thing uncertain about it is the actual move date, the actual home we will move to and if Airyn plans to be a part of the move. Right now his answer is that we are moving as a family all three of us. So the eventuality of Wolf deciding how she wants to split her time over a larger distance than a single city does not look like it will come about. However, she is thinking about the possibility in the event this occurs.

Over the next several months, including Airyn moving out there will be talks and consideration to the type of home structure we will be looking for once we move. How many rooms we will be looking for, are we looking for a place that is set up as a single family home or a place set up more like two apartments? That is the current question, and isnít something that can be truthfully answered right now.

There is the possibility that Airyn will move out, and come to me to say that heís just not that into me, and heís going to go ahead with his life following a different path. He currently does not believe that will happen for reason I donít care to share here. But there is that option, and I will only put as much effort into maintaining a relationship with Airyn as he is willing to put in himself. We shall see how things go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I am only answering this here like this because you asked as well as sent me a pm directing me to respond to this here.
Actually I did not request that you respond here, nor did I request that you respond at all. I sent a PM and stated why I felt a PM versus responding within my blog was best in this instance. The PM was to explain why i have never responded directly to any of your prior post, but did to this one, and to inform you that I did respond since you state you were no longer going to follow my blog. I do not mind in the least that you have decided not to follow my blog thatís your choice. However I felt that your comment warranted a response (which I explained in the PM why i felt that way).
I made at least 2 comments (one privately to you, and one in my blog) about a PM sometimes being the better choice over a post in a blog.

Seems to me that I was right. There is some difference in communication, you donít understand what I am saying to you, and your words donít have your intended effect on me. Now that IS an incompatibility you and I could NEVER do Poly together this way.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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