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  #631  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
Thank you for the kind and so sweet response.~ I'm a little sensitive right now after having a lot people attack me for something I didn't even say...
So it's comforting to me to hear you speaking to me in such kinds words, I could use some kind words right now...~
You're welcome, but I really don't think this is a situation of a lot of people attacking you - many people were confused by your statements and asked for clarification, and instead received a reply stating that your comments were clear and being misinterpreted.

My point in my other response was that, regardless of how clear you think you're being, if a lot of people can't follow you, you may need to reevaluate what you're saying or how you're saying it. A teacher wouldn't be very successful if his students were confused, regardless of how clear he thought he was.

As for your question, it's worth exploring within your relationship(s). Talk about it and see what your partners think - maybe you'll be happily surprised.
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Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids, two cats, one house with many projects.
Chops (previously 'P'): My partner of ~3 years. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena (previously M1): Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa (previously AG): Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

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A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
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  #632  
Old 09-17-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
You're welcome, but I really don't think this is a situation of a lot of people attacking you - many people were confused by your statements and asked for clarification, and instead received a reply stating that your comments were clear and being misinterpreted.

My point in my other response was that, regardless of how clear you think you're being, if a lot of people can't follow you, you may need to reevaluate what you're saying or how you're saying it. A teacher wouldn't be very successful if his students were confused, regardless of how clear he thought he was.

As for your question, it's worth exploring within your relationship(s). Talk about it and see what your partners think - maybe you'll be happily surprised.
Thanks!~ ^_^
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  #633  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I just wanted to point out that even someone interested in BDSM like me still gets that feeling of incredible rage and immense frustration at not being able to fix it when I hear about anything happening non-consensually.
Actually, I would say I even have a hard time watching consensual BDSM. I really need to be part of it for it to be okay (and then it's more than ok, it's hot).

So I totally get it. I too am all for consensual BDSM relationships, but when I'm not part of a relationship I don't really know (I mean know inside of me, more that just logically knowing it because they told me so) that the people are consenting to everything, or how much they like it, and since I can't fix it because I'm not part of it, it makes me uncomfortable at best.

I feel there is a big amount of getting to know each other before you can do BDSM together because you need to be able to read each other. If at any time I felt like the other person wasn't enjoying themselves I would just lose it, it would stop being hot and would become disgusting and disturbing and I would have to stop everything. Being able to predict how far you can go or what you can`shouldn't do is essential to me. That doesn't work with strangers, even if I know they're enjoying it, so I'm not really able to differentiate between consensual and non-consensual when I'm merely an observer, therefore I don't wish to be one.

Fictional stories are fine because the way the characters feel about things is spelled out. Video porn is not because it's really happening to real people so the usual caveats apply.

However I am certainly fine with people having sex the way they want, and I am fine with porn that is consensual between the actors, too.
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  #634  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
.

I feel there is a big amount of getting to know each other before you can do BDSM together because you need to be able to read each other. If at any time I felt like the other person wasn't enjoying themselves I would just lose it, it would stop being hot and would become disgusting and disturbing and I would have to stop everything. Being able to predict how far you can go or what you can`shouldn't do is essential to me. That doesn't work with strangers, even if I know they're enjoying it, so I'm not really able to differentiate between consensual and non-consensual when I'm merely an observer, therefore I don't wish to be one.

.
While there are many people in the BDSM communities that play without knowing each other very well, often it is more thought out than say just a casual sex night. Even if two people interested in BDSM are only planning on playing once, there is often a good deal of negotiation that goes into a scene, which allows those involed to get to know each other's interests, dislikes, and hard limits. While it is true they may not be able to read someone's non-verbals very well the first time play happens, a good play partner should be frequently checking in with the partner during the scene to make sure they are ok.

While certainally not everyone in BDSM does this, and there are those in every community that can be irresponsible, the actions I listed above are strongly encouraged throughout BDSM. While I am involved in BDSM with both of my poly partners, I have known them each for 5+ years so we all know how to read each other very well, and, as a result, don't really need to do much negotiating anymore. However, on the occasions where I do play with either a new person or someone I am not quite as familiar with playing with, I tend to do less intense, less involved scenes, with expectations clearly discussed beforehand. With new/occasional play partners I sometimes also check in a day or two after a scene to make sure they are ok, got what they wanted out of the scene, etc.
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  #635  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:34 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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the "whatever floats you boat" mantra comes to mind.
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  #636  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:35 AM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I just wanted to point out that even someone interested in BDSM like me still gets that feeling of incredible rage and immense frustration at not being able to fix it when I hear about anything happening non-consensually.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who is not a sociopath will have some level of repulsion at the idea of non-consensual sex of any variety.

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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I too am all for consensual BDSM .
Is there a widely practiced trend of non-consensual acts perpetrated in the BDSM world? I think it's odd when discussing sexual practices and preferences that making the designation "as long as it is consensual" is required. I realize that there will always be rare villains out there who will enslave people... but is it really so common in the BDSM environment that consensual needs to be a staple prefix?
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  #637  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:07 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I'm pretty sure that anyone who is not a sociopath will have some level of repulsion at the idea of non-consensual sex of any variety.



Is there a widely practiced trend of non-consensual acts perpetrated in the BDSM world? I think it's odd when discussing sexual practices and preferences that making the designation "as long as it is consensual" is required. I realize that there will always be rare villains out there who will enslave people... but is it really so common in the BDSM environment that consensual needs to be a staple prefix?
It's more the other way around. I'm trying to explain that despite engaging in BDSM activity, and being totally ok with other people doing the same thing (intellectually), I'm uncomfortable watching people as I can't really differentiate when I'm not part of the scene.
So I'm not saying: "oh, but it's only fine when it's consensual", which I assume is obvious. I'm saying "even when it's consensual, and even though I think people should totally be able to do it, and even though I enjoy doing myself on a regular basis, watching does nothing for me and makes me feel horrible"

My point is that not being into BDSM isn't a pre-requisite to being completely turned off by seeing it done by strangers.
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  #638  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I'm pretty sure that anyone who is not a sociopath will have some level of repulsion at the idea of non-consensual sex of any variety.
This is entirely from your own perspective as it is debatable and ultimately no one really knows if compassion is intrinsic to all creatures or even just Humanity.~
But that's getting off-topic.~


Tonberry,

My feelings are more directed towards all creatures in general in relation to consent, one of the reasons I can not stand "pets" being treated as "slaves" and "property".~

When I see people in BDSM related play, I do not feel rage, because I assume that is consensual and they appear to be enjoying themselves.~

We as a species can not clearly understand others outside our own species and so non-Humans do not have that luxury of being able to give their "consent" of being in a cage like a Human can.~

I myself enjoy watching some BDSM acts, but I know because of my wild nature I would not be able to engage in such play willingly.~
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  #639  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:14 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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If I may ask, do you mean things like zoos, or are you also against people caring for cats, dogs, etc? Or are you fine with people having pets provided they're not caged?

For instance, I currently have 3 cats. However they come and go as they please as we have several pet doors. One of them doesn't really go out ever, another one I can spend several weeks without seeing. I don't consider them trapped or caged, but I do know that some people oppose the idea of pets to begin with, and I'm curious whether it is what you mean.

At least I am assuming you're talking about non-humans right now. Usually, using quotation marks around the word "pet" in a BDSM thread means human submissives, but it seems that's not what you mean, or am I misunderstanding you?
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  #640  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:35 AM
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ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
If I may ask, do you mean things like zoos, or are you also against people caring for cats, dogs, etc? Or are you fine with people having pets provided they're not caged?

For instance, I currently have 3 cats. However they come and go as they please as we have several pet doors. One of them doesn't really go out ever, another one I can spend several weeks without seeing. I don't consider them trapped or caged, but I do know that some people oppose the idea of pets to begin with, and I'm curious whether it is what you mean.

At least I am assuming you're talking about non-humans right now. Usually, using quotation marks around the word "pet" in a BDSM thread means human submissives, but it seems that's not what you mean, or am I misunderstanding you?
I think the relationship you have with your cats is the most wonderful relationship I have yet to hear anyone practice with the concept of "pets" in relation to Humans.~ I think every single Human and non-relationship should be exactly what you have with your pets.~

Yes, I dislike Zoos.~

If I were to ever form a bond of friendship with another creature who is not Human, I would treasure that friendship.~ I treat all creatures as equals to myself and so I always try to think from their perspective Human or not.~

I've always dreamed of one day having a flying squirrel fly into my boat-house and we form a friendship.~ The flying squirrel would come and go as it pleases, I am not and would not be its' or anyone's "master" so I have no right to command them, and I would never profess "ownership" of such a wonderful creature as that would infer that I am somehow its' "master" and I am no one's master.~

Last edited by ColorsWolf; 09-18-2013 at 06:40 AM.
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