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  #21  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:44 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
And maybe what we are looking for is that unicorn, I don't know. I get what she wants, just not so sure we can provide.....
You and several thousand others, it is a pretty futile hunt to be honest, you had the third, most of those couples would kill for that opportunity but because not all boxes were ticked you threw something that could have been good and long lasting away (for all you know this other guy may not have lasted) what you have now is the benefit of experience, you have seen exactly how you both can ruin this type of relationship, now you have the opportunity to start anew with that experience, you can go forward with a better grasp of polyamory or you can fall back to fantasyland looking for your new Golden Unicorn, the choice is yours.
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2013, 10:02 PM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
You and several thousand others, it is a pretty futile hunt to be honest, you had the third, most of those couples would kill for that opportunity but because not all boxes were ticked you threw something that could have been good and long lasting away (for all you know this other guy may not have lasted) what you have now is the benefit of experience, you have seen exactly how you both can ruin this type of relationship, now you have the opportunity to start anew with that experience, you can go forward with a better grasp of polyamory or you can fall back to fantasyland looking for your new Golden Unicorn, the choice is yours.

Blunt but honest. Thank you

I don't know if we can do it (or if we want to) but moving forward at least I have an idea from the other view point

Thanks
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2013, 10:42 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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I am still reading the thread, but if your initial fear was that through sharing you *might* see less of her, it seems that now you have assured it. In essence you gave her an ultimatum. Most people do not respond kindly to such behavior. And now you are heartbroken because you forced her to choose.

I am sincerely sorry you and your wife are so hurt. I imagine your gf is too.
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:26 PM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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I am still reading the thread, but if your initial fear was that through sharing you *might* see less of her, it seems that now you have assured it. In essence you gave her an ultimatum. Most people do not respond kindly to such behavior. And now you are heartbroken because you forced her to choose.

I am sincerely sorry you and your wife are so hurt. I imagine your gf is too.
But wouldn't it be worse to lie to her and ourselves and pretend that we are happy she is off seeing another.

Like I said before, maybe we aren't 100% poly (whatever that means) I don't know if she is hurt or not and this isn't the ending my wife and I wanted but we had to be honest
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:08 AM
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But wouldn't it be worse to lie to her and ourselves and pretend that we are happy she is off seeing another.
Depending on what your soft and hard limits are, couldn't you negotiate with her rather than just give her the ultimatum that she can't see anyone else?

If your problem is time, why not go to her with "we're worried that we won't see you enough when you start dating," and then work through it - maybe work out a plan where you see her x nights a week or something that seems manageable, or even give her a night a week away to herself for some time frame and see how that feels before negotiating more? It's time to not only date, but maybe do other activities that she'd like to do on her own.

Would a night a week have been a good start for her? Would it have been workable for you? You'll never know.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
But wouldn't it be worse to lie to her and ourselves and pretend that we are happy she is off seeing another.

Like I said before, maybe we aren't 100% poly (whatever that means) I don't know if she is hurt or not and this isn't the ending my wife and I wanted but we had to be honest
I think what disturbs me (and it might be niggling others, I am not sure) is it appears that instead of making an effort to confront the reasons why your gf having a partner may disturb you, instead of coming here and talking that particular issue over, getting all the varied opinions and points of view regarding why this is an issue, instead of you fall back into 'but we can't do that it is too (emotionally) hard'.

I don't mean to be harsh but it seems SO weak minded and defeatist, as if you have no real desire to grow as people, as individuals, you just want to create a box and find someone to fill it and have it all the same.

No maybe you are not really 'Poly' maybe you would be better off going back to monogamy, I don't know, at least you wouldn't need to challenge yourself, but it is quite frustrating to read

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But wouldn't it be worse to lie to her and ourselves and pretend that we are happy she is off seeing another.
No, it is not her job to make you happy! Only you can do that. I am pretty sure she would be as happy as a clam if you pretended you were happy whilst at the same time dealing with your issues!!! What is wrong with being unhappy anyway? When your unhappiness is a by-product of misplaced expectation? If my (mythical) husband is not a doctor and that makes me unhappy because I wanted to marry a doctor, is my husband wrong? Or is my expectation?

You are the cause of this pain, yourself and your wife because your Unicorn turned out to be a real woman with real needs, you will find this with any woman who agrees (however briefly) to a triad.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2013, 02:06 AM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I think what disturbs me (and it might be niggling others, I am not sure) is it appears that instead of making an effort to confront the reasons why your gf having a partner may disturb you, instead of coming here and talking that particular issue over, getting all the varied opinions and points of view regarding why this is an issue, instead of you fall back into 'but we can't do that it is too (emotionally) hard'.

I don't mean to be harsh but it seems SO weak minded and defeatist, as if you have no real desire to grow as people, as individuals, you just want to create a box and find someone to fill it and have it all the same.

No maybe you are not really 'Poly' maybe you would be better off going back to monogamy, I don't know, at least you wouldn't need to challenge yourself, but it is quite frustrating to read



No, it is not her job to make you happy! Only you can do that. I am pretty sure she would be as happy as a clam if you pretended you were happy whilst at the same time dealing with your issues!!! What is wrong with being unhappy anyway? When your unhappiness is a by-product of misplaced expectation? If my (mythical) husband is not a doctor and that makes me unhappy because I wanted to marry a doctor, is my husband wrong? Or is my expectation?

You are the cause of this pain, yourself and your wife because your Unicorn turned out to be a real woman with real needs, you will find this with any woman who agrees (however briefly) to a triad.
I appreciate your honesty but I am surprised at the amount of venom in your post. This is new to me and my wife and maybe we don't have the same ideas on what a perfect relationship is. I came here to get some different perspectives on my situation so that I could maybe understand. Some people have provided that and others have attacked me and called me week minded and defeatist. I am sorry I don't fit into your idea of what poly is.

Thank you people for some of your posts. I will seek understanding elsewhere
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2013, 02:14 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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No doubt that honesty is incredibly important. But in my experience honesty is the starting point - the starting point for discussions to increase mutual understanding.

For example, do you know what needs your gf hopes to have met by this new guy? Simply a chance to explore? Maybe a chance at marriage like you and your wife? Maybe some other need that a conversation might have elucidated - a need that if understood perhaps you and your wife could have met.

Having been that proverbial unicorn twice - I have some perspective. In one relationship, I was a full-fledged member of the family. We held joint bank accounts. It lasted nearly 2 decades and ended when one of my partners died. In the other, it was presented to me as if I would be a full-fledged member of the family, and one of my partners treated me as such, and the other began excluding so that they could be a couple.

Now, it could be that your gf really just wants the traditional marriage and kids. And if that is the case, sadly ther is nothing traditional about a triad. Nothing you and your wife could have done to change it. However if your triad, instead of being three equal individuals was in fact composed of your coupledom and your gf, that begets any number of stings, knowing you are always excluded at the core. Frankly, I found it unbearable.
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2013, 03:53 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
She had her own place but would be over between 3-5 times a week. I should also add that there is an age difference (she is younger) and I think she was afraid of commitment at this stage in her life
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I think it's easy to assume it's commitment that is the problem but it's more likely to be that she wants what you had, a chance to establish her own family. You attempted to prevent her from doing that and she, rightly, ended things.
The above two quotes could work in either order. But let me just make sure I have this right.

You and your wife have a marriage, a joint home, joint bank accounts. You support each other, you presumably provide things like insurance and retirement for your wife, along with the ability to have a nicer home and cars based on your joint income. Your wife either has children with you or has the opportunity to have children with you. You are there for each other 24/7 and spend any evening together that you want to, and presumably every night together. You go to events and family functions together.

Your girlfriend gets to work two, three, maybe ten times as hard to provide all of this for herself. Because she has only her income, she will be unable to provide herself as much as if she was with the two of you or with a primary partner. She has to sleep alone 2 to 4 times per week at least, compared to yours and your wife's NEVER. She gets to see the two of you...when the two of you are not having couple time? Does she get the opportunity to have children with you? If not, she gives that up. She gets to keep the people she loves in secret and not have anyone to bring to family functions. She gives up ever having a primary partner or husband of her own.

And in return, she gets....what? To have hot threesomes with you and your wife when the two of you want them? Or does she get one on one time with either of you...when the two of you have time for her?

Do I have that right? If so, the exchange rate would have to be pretty incredible for that to be a sufficient trade-off.
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  #30  
Old 09-10-2013, 06:37 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
I appreciate your honesty but I am surprised at the amount of venom in your post.
Trust me, this is not venom.

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This is new to me and my wife and maybe we don't have the same ideas on what a perfect relationship is.
You have to understand, this line is one of the things that might cause frustration. Perfect relationships have not yet been discussed but surely a "perfect" relationship is one which exists where everyone gets their needs met in it?

Quote:
I am sorry I don't fit into your idea of what poly is.
Don't do this mock apology thing we aren't (I hope) teenagers. I never said what my idea of poly is, what I have done is tell you where I think you went wrong with your relationship, which I hoped to move you from a 'she did us wrong' pov. To a 'perhaps we could have handled this better' mindset.

Quote:
others have attacked me and called me week minded and defeatist.

I will seek understanding elsewhere
No. 'I' called you that, what is the point of the general "others have" when responding directly to me? Does that last line prove me wrong? Is swanning off a sign of strength or a passive aggressive move? I am not attacking you, I disagree with the way your mindset and I am telling you my perspectives on it.

You have had sympathy for your pain on this thread but you did not ask for "understanding" you asked for different perspectives, advice and guidance of which you have had loads.

Or are you using "understanding" as in 'people who think you made the right choice'? Well that might be hard to find anywhere on the net Wouldn't it be better to keep with the current discussion, talk about 'why' you feel you made the right choice and why the other suggestions offered will not work for you instead of going to find people who will just tell you what you want to hear?
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