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  #81  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:47 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I have my own very large and loud extended family to spend time with, it seems bizarre to leave my family to go and spend time with someone else's grandkids.
That would be bizarre. We don't do that-nor do others. We all get together. So-other partners and their other partners and their kids and their grandkids and their parents and our kids, our other partners, our grandkids etc.

But again-not going to be a lot of "not seeing anyone else in the family" happening.
Even on dates out as a couple-either set of couples in our household-it's COMMON to run into other family in town. It is a small town. Go out to dinner-going to see someone you know. Damn near impossible not to.
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  #82  
Old 09-07-2013, 04:46 PM
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That would be bizarre. We don't do that-nor do others. We all get together. So-other partners and their other partners and their kids and their grandkids and their parents and our kids, our other partners, our grandkids etc.
Remember I said this too.

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I have a child, yes. A child that I wouldn't dream of involving in my adult romantic relationships of any kind for at least a year of dating someone.
So, and I'm not bullshitting here, whilst your family does sound really nice, mainly because I get the hunch there would be heaps of lovely food at yours, my son wouldn't be meeting any of you until I had an established relationship with a view to a long term future with your partner.
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  #83  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:07 AM
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There was an awkward silence, nobody knew where to look or what to say. The host didn't know what was going on, and they all walked away and avoided each other at the party. The couple kept the shades drawn from then on.

True story.
What a horrible ending! I demand a re-write! In my movie, they would have introduced themselves and made a comment about how different each other looks with clothes on!

People and cultures are funny. I have no problem being naked or being seen naked. I sometimes sneak outside the backdoor to call in the cats, naked. I only sneak because technically it's illegal to be seen naked from outside your house, and I don't want to make enemies of my neighbours.
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 09-09-2013 at 05:18 AM.
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  #84  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:18 AM
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I don't want those kind of entwined relationships with metamours particularly in the early dating stage - especially whilst I am still deciding how I feel about the guy, and I believe that kids shouldn't be involved in their parents adult relationships at all for months and months and months. So altogether, that whole set up is everything I am fundamentally against in polyamory.
Yet again, you're looking down your nose at the way other people do things just because it isn't how you do things.

I have absolutely no objection to you making a personal choice not to involve YOUR kids with YOUR adult relationships until you feel comfortable. As the parent, that's your prerogative. However, your comment comes across as telling other people how they ought to run their lives. I've seen you express elsewhere that individuals do relationships differently; it would be nice if that sentiment was reflected in your writing.

Another thing that comes to mind is that if I'm a parent, I want to know right away whether my dates are good with kids. If they hate them and back away from kids like they're the plague, there's a good chance that the relationship won't work out long term. I would hate to learn that after investing months and months on building a relationship.

I think it also depends a lot on the children themselves and the family situation at home. Some kids are used to people coming in and out of their lives and they don't really think about it. They might miss someone when they don't see them anymore, but they're quickly distracted by some other new friend. Other kids get really really attached right away, and they really miss people when they go. I think a major factor in that is often whether they have enough love and role models at home. e.g., LR's kids have three parents who all love them, and grown-up siblings who probably fulfill that role as well. Since they're not missing anything at home, they would be less likely to latch on to the first male who walks in the door. Conversely, the child of a single mother may have no strong male role-model, so they may look to fill that role wherever they can. So every boyfriend who walks in the door has much more potential to break the kid's heart when they leave.

Auto's kids have two fathers and a mother. One of them also has a biological father who isn't really involved. So myself and Auto's husband's boyfriend aren't seen as parental figures in any way, shape, or form. The kids get really excited when we come over, but they don't cry for us when we're not there. I was introduced shortly after our first "official" date, at the same time I met Auto's husband. I'm pretty sure I was being vetted for my ability to handle toddlers as much as for my potential threat to their marriage. Auto and her husband have both had lovers leave their lives after meeting the kids, and the kids might ask about them now and then but their absence certainly hasn't left any gaping holes.
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Gralson: my husband. Auto: my girlfriend.
Zoffee: Auto's husband. Cue: Zoffee's boyfriend. Bookie: Cue's wife.

"A real relationship doesn't properly begin until the NRE burns away. That's when you have to start dealing with this person as an all-around human being, replete with irritating little habits. When disillusion sets in, love can begin."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 09-09-2013 at 05:35 AM.
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  #85  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:01 AM
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I think it also depends a lot on the children themselves and the family situation at home. Some kids are used to people coming in and out of their lives and they don't really think about it. They might miss someone when they don't see them anymore, but they're quickly distracted by some other new friend. Other kids get really really attached right away, and they really miss people when they go. I think a major factor in that is often whether they have enough love and role models at home. e.g., LR's kids have three parents who all love them, and grown-up siblings who probably fulfill that role as well. Since they're not missing anything at home, they would be less likely to latch on to the first male who walks in the door. Conversely, the child of a single mother may have no strong male role-model, so they may look to fill that role wherever they can. So every boyfriend who walks in the door has much more potential to break the kid's heart when they leave.


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  #86  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:31 PM
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Right, now that I have recovered from that shocking display of stereotypical slander against single parents and people who don't have a father figure/male role model in their lives, I am capable of a proper reply. Before we begin, just to let you know, I am a single parent, yes, but my son has a fantastically close relationship with his father and wider extended paternal family. Mostly because I have the views that I do about relationships and parenting. The reason that I keep my adult romantic relationships and dates totally separate from my son isn't because I am anxious about him developing "Daddy" feelings for someone I bring home, it's because I believe that your responsibility as a parent is of a higher priority than having a fulfilling romantic life and bringing people into his life that could potentially have a negative impact isn't me living up to my responsibilities. It takes time to really see someone for who they are and whilst it's fine to take a risk yourself, it isn't okay to take those sorts of risks for other people. I'm not talking about someone being a paedophile or anything as extreme as that, I'm simply talking about people who will have any sort of negative influence or impact on the life someone you have responsibility for. People who would become controlling, domineering or not accept that we are incompatible. People that will prolong an unhealthy relationship and the results spill over and affect his life. People who are unable to maintain boundaries and agreements and therefore might have people in their life who could negatively affect my child. People who have seemingly stable medical or psychological conditions that affect their behaviour and it does not become apparent how much it affects their behaviour for some time. When I date someone, I take the risk that they could be any of those things; that's a risk I take, myself. I do not have the right to take that risk for my son and so I would only bring a stranger into his life who I was pretty damn certain wasn't any of those things. Gaining that certainty takes months.

Now, there are some things that I think are just wrong and not many people will disagree, like not feeding your kids, and there are some things that I (or anyone) believes is wrong and people might disagree. It does not take away from the fact that I (or they) still believe that thing is wrong. I believe that involving your children with people you are not in a stable, romantic relationship with is wrong. I believe that establishing a stable romantic relationship takes months, at least. I believe it is always wrong to have people who make bonds with your children that terminate as soon as your romantic relationship fails. You cannot guarantee that someone does share those same sorts of values about children for some time. I believe that your adult dating should take place away from your parenting. I strongly believe in reinforcing a strict distinction between your romantic relationship and your role as parents - even amongst biological parents. Combining dating with hanging out with your kids is not doing that.

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If they hate them and back away from kids like they're the plague, there's a good chance that the relationship won't work out long term. I would hate to learn that after investing months and months on building a relationship.
I am not looking for a partner that will co parent my son in any way. I am not looking for someone who wants to join us for parent-child bonding sessions, activities or outings. My son has a father, he doesn't need or want an additional one. If he happens to get on marvelously with someone I am in a relationship with and in time, comes to view him as a significant person in his life, great! But that's not something I am seeking in a partner. It's not a role they need to fit. They only need to be a good partner for me, someone who happens to be a single parent - that just means they need to understand that we need to schedule around my parenting duties and that if something is up with him, that will take priority the majority of the time and we may have to reschedule. The only reason I like a partner who isn't turned off by children is because I probably want to have more children some day.not because I need them to co parent my existing child. I don't need to see how good they are with my son, I need to see how good they are as people generally.

Now, often in this conversation people say things like "Don't you bring friends into your son's life?" and the answer to that of course I do, but I have some friends, good friends, that aren't the kind of people I want around my kid. Yeah, they are fun for me to hang out with on occasion, but not good enough stock to be in any sort of position of influence in my son's life. I don't want their drama, their values or their general demeanor around my boy. Most of these people I had the advantage of knowing before his birth and I decided early on that they wouldn't be seeing much of my son after he was about 1, and they don't. My friends don't meet my kid until I have assessed them in a similar fashion to I would a partner. I. of course, have lots of friends (with and without kids) who are around him often and spend time with him alone.


If you read back through these forums, you will see numerous examples of how a romantic partner of a parent was able to harm or potentially harm the children of that parent because they had been allowed access to them far too early on. Way before they had any true indication of what that person was like on a bad day. There is nothing anyone can say that will convince me that putting your children in a position to be harmed by your lover is not a risk that can be greatly minimised by parents completely separating their dating lives and prioritising their duty as parents over their desire to have romantic relationships.
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  #87  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:31 PM
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OK, calm down.

I didn't single you out. I know that your kid's dad is involved, you've said that before. So you're not even the kind of family I'm talking about. What I said is that IF a child doesn't have any male role model, THEN they will be more likely to latch on to some random guy who happens to be available. It doesn't need to be the guy you bring home, it can be a male teacher, a scouting leader, or the mail man for that matter.

It wasn't "stereotypical." Nor was it slander against single parents. It was slander against people who try to raise children in isolation from the rest of their community, be they single parents or nuclear heterosexuals. Children need exposure to lots of people, lots of kinds of people, in order to grow up healthy and tolerant. One person cannot go it alone. Humans evolved in communal living arrangements, all the adults would take responsibility for all the kids. It's only in the last 50 years or so that everyone started acting like two people are all the authority figures any kid needs, and everyone else should mind their own business.

I think it's stupid to believe that just because modern families want to do things differently, that somehow negates tens of thousands of years of evolved brain development that governs the social needs of children and humans in general. Neanderthals had unpartnered parents all the time. The whole tribe would help out, just like they did for all the non-single parents. It's what they needed to do for the tribe to survive.

Kids need male and female role models. Fact. Anyone who thinks two women or two men, or one man, or one woman, can substitute for exposure to people of both genders, is both ignorant and arrogant. I'm not saying single parents are "bad," I'm not saying homosexual parents are "bad." I'm saying people who think they can single-handedly provide 100% of the social needs of a child are idiots. I'm saying that lesbians who only hang out with other lesbians and never let their kids meet a man are fucking up their kids. Humans are social creatures, they need socialization from all kinds of people. If the primary caregivers are women, they need male friends to be involved. If the primary caregivers are men, they need female friends to be involved. That's just obvious.

I didn't say every family needs a Mommy and a Daddy. I didn't even imply it. I said that every child needs both male and female role models. Little boys need to learn how good men treat women. Little girls need to learn how women are treated by good men. And vice-versa.
__________________
Gralson: my husband. Auto: my girlfriend.
Zoffee: Auto's husband. Cue: Zoffee's boyfriend. Bookie: Cue's wife.

"A real relationship doesn't properly begin until the NRE burns away. That's when you have to start dealing with this person as an all-around human being, replete with irritating little habits. When disillusion sets in, love can begin."
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  #88  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
OK, calm down.

I didn't single you out. I know that your kid's dad is involved, you've said that before. So you're not even the kind of family I'm talking about. What I said is that IF a child doesn't have any male role model, THEN they will be more likely to latch on to some random guy who happens to be available. It doesn't need to be the guy you bring home, it can be a male teacher, a scouting leader, or the mail man for that matter.

So effin offensive.
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  #89  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:23 PM
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Natja-
why is that offensive?
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  #90  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:42 PM
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Natja-
why is that offensive?
It is an offensive generalisation. Can't you see that? Am I going mad?
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