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  #171  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:45 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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So this puts things where Iím telling Airyn no more. he canít see her, itís done. Iím not living like this. That this situation is not cool. and should not have happened.

So he starts trying to see her in secret. I find out.

He refuses to not see her, saying itís the principle of it.

This changes things. I tell him I will no longer participate in an intimate relationship with him while he is dating/pursuing his toxic relationship with Chipmunk. He moves his things out of our bedroom, and into the living room. Now he has the space to see her with less restrictions, other than not being able to use my car, and having no income of his own to spend on dating.

This makes for a stress filled few weeks. I start cutting Airyn off from the husbandly things he has always done for me. Like making my coffee, and lunch for work. I went off on him for having done so. Telling him that heís not my partner what the hell is he doing. And walk out the door for work not saying goodbye or offering to let him know when I make it to work. He panics when he realizes what happened. Itís several hours before I get online, and message him say that incase he wants to know I made it to work on time. I get some very angry, hurt, and upset responses to that. I tell him he chose to be in an intimate relationship with Chipmunk and to lose his intimate relationship with me.

So now heís saying he still wants to do all the THINGS for me he has always done. That it means something to him. Heís telling me he doesnít want our relationship to be over, just that we need to take a step or two back from it. So that he could have the space to continue his relationship with Chipmunk without hurting me. I tell him that I can not be in an intimate relationship with him while heís seeing her and not get hurt. That It will be hard enough to see him every day, love him the way I do, and know that his relationship with Chipmunk meant more to him than ours did. I told him he was getting what he wanted to still be able to live with me, and to keep seeing Chipmunk. (while Airyn is in the living room we take Wolf to spend her summer with her grand mother)

After a short time like this, Airyn tells me he wants to get closer to me. To be more than just friends and roommates. He tells me he wants to get back to the relationship we had before soon rather than later. I tell him Iíd like that, and remind him that I canít ďdateĒ him while heís dating Chipmunk. I find out that he has agreed to plans to spend Christmas with Chipmunk (at least 6 months in advance). I find out because I had asked to use his PC, and the messages were still pulled up. I didnít start yelling, but I did tell him that I was upset. That Iíd read those messages. I tell him that if he is serious about working things out with me then he wonít be spending Christmas with Chipmunk. I tell him he canít have it both ways. He canít get closer to me, and work on our relationship and tell Chipmunk that heíll be spending Christmas with her.

We donít typically celebrate Christmas at home, we do chanukah. However Wolf will get that time off from school, and will want to see her dad. He agrees that he was being too optimistic in agreeing to that request of Chipmunk. Iím telling him that when he said he wanted to make things work with me sooner, I felt he was talking soon, not sometime next year.

Mostly he and I were distant with each other, but sometimes we cuddled, there is still the same love between us. It is very difficult to live together, and not fall back into our family (husband/wife) patterns. Thing are actually getting easier between he and I. We talk better, and are better at comforting each other. Still not in a good place mentally and emotionally, but I have been slowly recovering from the quick unhealthy weight loss I had experienced. For me this is progress, slow that it is.

When we met Chipmunk I weighed about 140#, in Feb I had dropped to less about 108 (very much underweight and unhealthy). Airynís mom noticed, and got pissed at Airyn over his not seeing how ill I had become due to their relationship, and the damage it was causing. By the time Dance and Goth came to visit I was about 115#, today Iím at 122# which for me is healthy. At 140 I felt heavy, and not so happy with my shape. Mostly I just wanted to build some muscle. I consider myself to be a curvy girl. I had a shape, and wanted that back. I had (and have gained back) a round ass (often told I have ďjunk in my trunkĒ), a narrow waist, and a large ďrackĒ (to match my ass I guess). Any way in this last several week my friends have commented that Iím looking healthy, and sexy again. >.>
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Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #172  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:47 PM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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Honestly you need to get a restraining order on her. She's getting dangerous to both you and Wolf.
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  #173  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:04 PM
london london is offline
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Honestly, it sounds like your husband is the issue here. Why has he not cut her off completely? This is what I mean about trusting that your partner can enforce boundaries with other people that maintain the health of your relationship. If you can't do that, you have big, big problems. She sounds like a bit of a nutjob for sure, but that is his chick, he wants her, what does that say about him?
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  #174  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:59 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Oh Numina, the train wreck never ends! I thought it was a good move when you separated for a while, but then you took him back and the bullshit started all over again. I know you love him, and he might love you, but LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH! When are you going to kick his ass out and shut the door on his insanity? You have been nothing but patient and flexible yet all he ever does is treat you like garbage. Get out of there! You deserve better.
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #175  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:39 AM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Oh Numina, the train wreck never ends! I thought it was a good move when you separated for a while, but then you took him back and the bullshit started all over again. I know you love him, and he might love you, but LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH! When are you going to kick his ass out and shut the door on his insanity? You have been nothing but patient and flexible yet all he ever does is treat you like garbage. Get out of there! You deserve better.
This. He's made it clear over and over that he wants Chimpmunk more than you and only doesn't want you/Wolf to hate him.

Make the choice for him. Tell him you are done and he needs to move out.
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  #176  
Old 09-08-2013, 04:54 AM
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Phy Phy is offline
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The same old pattern ... I am sad to read about it. Chipmunk is childish and pouty, Airyn is indecisive and you are stating your boundaries but start to act for him as soon as he isn't able to uphold them himself.

I can understand that she is unable to respect you and your relationship but simply because he isn't able to do so first. The problem is definitely Airyn but mainly because he doesn't want to end the relationship. That seems to be a fact he tends to omit when necessary and you don't want to see. You can state "I won't be tolerating her in my life' as much as you want, Airyn isn't a partner who is able to keep his relationships separate to that degree. You on the other side, leave a minimal space in his life for another relationship, which is your right, you state what you need, but she will never be satisfied with that. And the saddest thing is: Each and everyone of you knows this. You are hurting each other unnecessarily, someone needs to step back.

I hope that this comes to an end soon and you find some peace.
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  #177  
Old 09-08-2013, 02:27 PM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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I feel a great deal of empathy for you. This is so sad, Chipmunk has made it clear that she is a cowgirl, and not only a cowgirl but wants to eliminate Wolf.

I think detaching from him is the best solution to save your relationship. I worry most about Wolf. It seems that it is all about his needs and yours are being ignored. When you try to detach, you shouldn't as he wants to continue to do for you. Frankly, that is a way to have his cake and eat it to.
It allows his feelings of guilt to over ride yours of self protection. Please take care of yourself first, he clearly is!

I am glad you came back to vent and for support.

I feel empathy in that I have been in limbo for 2 plus years with my husband.
It is painful and distressing. It has been hard on my 14 year old child. Finally in the last month his fog is lifting.

Hugs LMBL
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  #178  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Honestly, it sounds like your husband is the issue here. Why has he not cut her off completely? This is what I mean about trusting that your partner can enforce boundaries with other people that maintain the health of your relationship. If you can't do that, you have big, big problems. She sounds like a bit of a nutjob for sure, but that is his chick, he wants her, what does that say about him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Oh Numina, the train wreck never ends! I thought it was a good move when you separated for a while, but then you took him back and the bullshit started all over again. I know you love him, and he might love you, but LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH! When are you going to kick his ass out and shut the door on his insanity? You have been nothing but patient and flexible yet all he ever does is treat you like garbage. Get out of there! You deserve better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CattivaGattina View Post
This. He's made it clear over and over that he wants Chimpmunk more than you and only doesn't want you/Wolf to hate him.
Make the choice for him. Tell him you are done and he needs to move out.
*Tone of voice - since tone isnít share-able via text based communication. Iím not being angry with anyoneís response. They are honest response to a shitty situation.*

The suggestions are not unwise even if they are baffling. I think everyone who has been in love understands that ending a relationship that has been full of love, when there is still hope that it can be that way again isnít something easily considered. Nor is it something easily done

These three quotes make it seem like an easy thing. To just walk away from someone you love. And NYcindie you can say this now, but I saw a post from you on another blog about a three year ordeal between you and your x-husband before your marriage ended. So I believe it is actually hindsight for you, and maybe what you would attempt for yourself in a situation like this one. But I also see that you know ending things (if thatís what will happen) isnít quick or easy. You also know that ending things via divorce isnít quick or easy. We can maybe talk more on that in PM if you like.

Airyn is in love with me, and with Chipmunk and canít let go of either one of us. Choosing one over the other is a losing situation for him. I get that. If he lives with me, and cuts Chipmunk out then heís bitter, resentful, and angry over that loss. If he lives with Chipmunk (or on his own so he can see her when he wishes too) then he has that same bitter resentful anger over losing me.

The way I see it is this. It doesnít matter which way things go one of us is going to be bitter, resentful, and angry. No matter what the choices are everyone is going to hurt, itís just degrees of being hurt, and how long it might take to recover. The likelihood that Airyn will stay with me is actually rather high. How likely that the bitterness, resentment, and anger we will each feel in the different scenarios ending everything for all of us I feel is rather high as well.

I see it as very likely that staying together as things are I will get to a point where the bitterness, and resentment are greater than the love. And when that happens I wonít be just saying I've had enough any more. It will be for real. I was just talking to Airyn about that recently. Telling him that I feel like thatís where things are heading for me.

He feels like heís in that situation too. Where he is being bitter at being made to choose, and knowing how unhappy he will be at his losses no matter what choice he makes.

Also Airyn has not chosen Chipmunk over me in a long time now. What he has done is chosen to not choose between us. He lives with me, and made that choice before finding out that he could not live with Chipmunk. He lives with me not just for Wolf, or because he can't/won't live with Chipmunk. He lives with me to BE with me. To spend time with me. To take care of me in what ways he can considering that he isn't able to let go of Chipmunk.

And I know why he has lied and attempted to keep his continuing to see Chipmunk from me. I know what his reasons are for going to see her. I'm not saying I agree with his reasoning, but I do understand, and I see where some of the reason is my own fault. If you had his words, his view, his story there would be more empathy/sympathy for him and his situation. Especially if you read his story before reading mine. It's not patience I have, it's sympathy for how he feels and what he wants. He not actually getting what he want no matter what his choice is.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #179  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:52 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Default Responding #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
. . she is a cowgirl
I came across what the polyworld means by this term in the last couple weeks, and I agree. I do feel that Chipmunk is a cowgirl. I feel like we were tricked in part. I also feel that I choose not to see the warning signs in the beginning, or that I choose to not respond properly to them when I saw them. That I wanted a GF badly enough that I ignored that, so I canít put it all off on Chipmunkís shoulder. We all share equal blame when it comes to it. Every one of us made our share of mistakes.

What hurts where the relationship between Chipmunk and I is concerned has as much to do with how I hurt myself, as how she hurt me. I wasnít just looking for a female sexual partner, I was looking for a friend, someone who could be another member of my family. I accepted someone else's timetable on the sexual side of the relationship instead of following what I know works for me. I know I have to have a solid friendship in place before things become that physical. I didnít listen to myself, that one is on me. But Airyn blames himself for how that turned out for me too.

I made some very clumsy attempts at high intimacy friendship with Chipmunk that left me even more hurt by her negative response. Its more clear now how clumsy I was with that. That I should have been more clear, or come back and attempted to talk to her about it another time. Too late for that knowledge now. And likely her response would not have been any different since I now know her to be a very possessive, jealous person obsessed with Airyn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
I think detaching from him is the best solution to save your relationship.
. . .
I am glad you came back to vent and for support.
I feel empathy in that I have been in limbo for 2 plus years with my husband.
It is painful and distressing. It has been hard on my 14 year old child. Finally in the last month his fog is lifting.
Hugs LMBL
Detaching might be for the best, but I can not do that on my own, I need him to decided to go. We (I) have tried to just be friends/roommates. That didnít work. We both love each other too much despite all this animosity. Iíve asked myself, and Iíve asked Airyn many many times over the last 5 or 6 months, ďwhy am I still trying, why canít I just end things with him and move on?Ē My answer is the same as his. Because of LOVE. Doesnít matter that Love isnít enough to keep us from tearing each other apart. It doesnít matter that being in love with Airyn is hurting me because of his relationship to Chipmunk. I still feel all that love that he and I have build over the 2 decades we have been together.

I am looking for an answer to this puzzle that I can accept in my heart. And yes LMBL I came back mostly to vent.

My response posts today, what I'm saying in them is why the quotes I posted from BP's blog resonate with me. I understand what she was saying. Feel the sentiment, and could never have said it as eloquently as she has.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #180  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:55 PM
london london is offline
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let me show you something I wrote on my blog the other day about people who talk about being "in love":

Quote:
You see, to me, people would say they were "in love" when they wanted to justify why they behave unreasonably towards others, or even themselves by staying in an unhealthy or futile relationship. It was always the reason that people felt it was alright to sacrifice their dignity, self respect and their loyalty to the people who loved them (perhaps not romantically) before and during the time they had this romantic relationship; the same people that will still love you after it ends. So to me, I guess the definition of romantic love, was the point one reaches when the survival of the romantic relationship between two or more people who love one another supersedes whether that romantic relationship is actually healthy for the people involved. When it becomes more important to be in the relationship than happy in the relationship, you are officially "in love" and now, the usual norms and expectations of a functioning human being no longer apply.
This is a blog thingy so I am not going to say much more but, girl, if this was in relationships corner, there would be pages. Believe me.
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