Just need to talk

The situation I described involved an openly long-time poly guy who's partner was also poly. I'm certainly all for variety. Different people appeal to different parts of me. And I think you're entirely right about getting certain things from some partners that you don't get from others. I don't quite see that as a *lack* really. But I have noticed that people that even some poly people seek out relationships because of a *lack* in their current relationships. That can be a bit of a red flag for me. If I have a partner, it's because I *want* to be with them and I would want partners who *want* to be with me, not settle for me because they can get the bits they're missing elsewhere.

That's not quite the same as only dating people who are "perfect" for me.

(but now we're a bit off topic from the thread :) )

Hey Ceoli,

I only want to comment on this because I fear (the way you worded it) creates a circular reference that has a potential to confuse and befuddle some people.
I understand TOTALLY exactly what you are saying And I think it's nice that you are trying to semantically put a positive spin on what might otherwise be a potential negative.

But when you make a statement (in a negative intonation) that some poly people look for something 'in addition' and call it a lack - well - when it comes down to it - it IS a lack. And I think it's unfair to portray that/they as a negative.
But that's ok ! I think tippy-toeing around reality and playing semantic games is risky sometimes, leads to misunderstandings, and just complicates what should be simple.

By way of analogy................

If for example, I had a partner who had no interest in Tantra, but that was something which was very important to me, then my searching out this 'addition' would absolutely be in response to their 'lack' of interest.
It's ok ! Really - it is.
I 'lack' interest or ability in some things. It's ok. If that's important to someone I'm in relationship with then they need to seek that elsewhere. That's ok too. You could play semantic games to try to protect my fragile ego and say you were going seeking an 'addition'. But you ain't fooling me. I lack the interest. Oh well :)

GS
 
GS, It becomes negative when the "lack" is such that it makes the relationship unhealthy. For this guy, that was the case. He spoke of his girlfriend not being able to "satisfy" him. Despite the issue I had that he views relationship partners as "sources of satisfaction", I have no desire to get into a relationship with someone who chooses to take on other relationships as a band-aid for what is broken in another relationship. That's a huge red flag for me and something I do indeed view in a negative light.

As I said earlier, if a person chooses to tolerate being with someone who is missing things they want *because* they think they can find those qualities elsewhere, I have huge questions in that. If a person *wants* to be with someone who may not appeal to all aspects of them and is perfectly happy if someone else doesn't come along, but is also happy if someone else who offers some different qualities does come along, that's an entirely other matter.

In other words, my poly relationships are complete whole entities in and of themselves. I don't treat my poly relationships like a jigsaw puzzle where I put each one together to give me everything on my list of what I would love in a relationship.
 
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In other words, my poly relationships are complete whole entities in and of themselves. I don't treat my poly relationships like a jigsaw puzzle where I put each one together to give me everything on my list of what I would love in a relationship.

Yeppers, (notice my bolding)

I understand this perfectly.
This is YOUR unique & individual truth.
Which is likely rooted it your own personal views & desires. Anyone has the ability to 'choose' to be happy. We all have the ability to reduce our needs & wants to a level that is easy to satisfy. These to me are admirable traits.

But that is NOT the reality/view of many others. And they also deserve support in finding their own path.
Not condemnation.
You understand this - I know.

But any 'lack' CAN make relationships unhealthy. Especially if it goes unheeded and unaddressed. It festers. And sometimes those 'lacks' can be easily filled !
Other times they can't - and maybe shouldn't. Each situation has to be addressed individually.

GS
 
The red flag for me would be the potential partner's perception.

There is

"I am looking for a relationship with these qualities because it is something I need and want to include in my life where it doesn't exist currently."

and there is

"I am looking for relationship with these qualities because my current partner/s are not giving it to me."

I don't care whether the term lack/ing is used. It could be used in any of the above cases. The red flag is the difference between a person recognizing their needs and actively seeking them, from a person who is placing the blame/responsibility of those needs being un/fulfilled solely on another person. That focuses the 'lack' on a particular relationship as opposed to a personal 'lack' where someone is seeking to expand themselves.

I believe the first instance would be indicative of a band-aid for the current relationship as Ceoli states while the other is indicative of a desire for personal growth and fulfillment.

I'd stay away from the first person and gladly be with the second.

Yeppers, (notice my bolding)
But that is NOT the reality/view of many others. And they also deserve support in finding their own path.
Not condemnation.
You understand this - I know.
I did not understand anything that Ceoli said to be condemnation of others for having differing views or realities. She stated her view and reality obviously. Do you have a point here?

~Raven~
 
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I would feel very threatened and unappreciated if I thought my loves were looking for others because I am not filling a need they have in them. I want to be a whole package, I want them to be for me also. Any addition I make to my love life would be because I feel someone is worth it. Not because I have a need that isn't met.

If I have a need that is unfulfiled then I would take it up with who is in my life and ask for support and someone to walk hand in hand with me on it. I don't see my partners as outside of me in this way. We walk together, that is why I chose them. I simply wouldn't pick someone to fill a need and I wouldn't want to be chosen for that.

I see people and hear of people who gather lovers as if they are a commodit sometimes. I wonder if they feel lonely and need many people around them to ease that feeling. I wonder also if each lover fills a need... Or is it a matter of a certain level of comfort in the depth they have with each one that makes it work. Its not my reality so this is why I ponder these things in an attempt to understand.

I like the idea of saying and believing that a new partner is an addition to the amount of love rather than to fill a need. I think it keeps things positive and comes from a better place somehow. I understand that people are different than me that way, and that's okay, but if I was approached by someone who isn't getting there needs met and wants to see if I can fill them, then it would be a red flag for me too. I think it would make me feel that there is an agenda and that I am simply no use to them accept to fill that need. Also, what if I don't satisfy? Would I be cast aside? That certainly would be damaging. What about my needs anyway? Where would they come into play for the person? It all seems rather selfish somehow.

I have been considering this in inviting new love into my life lately. Its important for me not to have an agenda. I took on a female lover last year (and I say "took on," because I feel I was being selfish in my desiring to fill a need) and ended up ditching her because I realized she was filling a need and that I didn't love her. I felt guilt in that and that I was responsible for not letting her know I had in her in my life for certain reasons. She has become a good friend because I understood for myself that I was responsible for the relationship I had set up. I felt responsible for my selfishness in only having sex with her to fulfil a need in me. I don't any more, due to the fact that I chose to see her as a whole, worthy of being loved as a whole. Our lovely friendship that is far more deep because of me understanding now and all without my needs attached at all.

Now I am very careful of my motives and consider many details before taking on new love. I have decided that no relationship of mine, friend or otherwise, should be rushed into to fill a need I have. It makes me far to invested in them and I have expectations that are unrealistic for them. I set people up essentially and then get really hurt when they aren't who I thought they were and don't fill a need for me. Selfish I know, but I am learning.
 
At what point was I saying otherwise?
I see what you mean here. However I definitely believe that sustaining multiple relationships works best when all relationships involved are healthy and whole.

Actually, as someone new around here who doesn't know your histories or tendencies, I'm glad that GS cleared that up. I was interpreting Ceoli's comment as a form of "works best for everyone" and not "works best for me."

I guess it depends what you meant by relationships being "whole." I interpret that as "meeting all my needs" and like GS said, you can have a really awesome, functional, healthy relationship without it meeting all your needs. I'm bisexual and I really enjoy the love and sexuality of men and women. There's obviously no single person that could meet both those needs, unless they were one of those frogs that can change their gender. But I'm not sexually attracted to frogs, so that leaves me looking for a woman to add to my life and love.
 
I would feel very threatened and unappreciated if I thought my loves were looking for others because I am not filling a need they have in them. I want to be a whole package, I want them to be for me also.

Hey RP,

Would you - really ?
I don't think you should. It think that's unfair to yourself & unrealistic.
Now don't read me here saying we wouldn't want everything to appear all in one package. But on the flip side of that - if the package were not 100% complete - how much are devaluing that parts that ARE there - and those people. And why would you devalue yourself if you discovered yourself 'lacking' in some particular small thing ? Seems awfully harsh doesn't it ?

:)

GS
 
Hey RP,

Would you - really ?
I don't think you should. It think that's unfair to yourself & unrealistic.
Now don't read me here saying we wouldn't want everything to appear all in one package. But on the flip side of that - if the package were not 100% complete - how much are devaluing that parts that ARE there - and those people. And why would you devalue yourself if you discovered yourself 'lacking' in some particular small thing ? Seems awfully harsh doesn't it ?

:)

GS

No I don't find it harsh at all. I know I fulfil everything for my men. Whatever they seek that is outside of me is because they have more love to give and more to get, not because I am not capable of offering them what they need. Of course Mono has no desire to find anyone, but nerdist does and for the reason I mentioned above, is in no rush to find and give more love. It comes into his life and therefore mine in the time and way that is best for all of us.
 
If I have a need that is unfulfiled then I would take it up with who is in my life and ask for support and someone to walk hand in hand with me on it. I don't see my partners as outside of me in this way. We walk together, that is why I chose them. I simply wouldn't pick someone to fill a need and I wouldn't want to be chosen for that.

I see people and hear of people who gather lovers as if they are a commodit sometimes. I wonder if they feel lonely and need many people around them to ease that feeling. I wonder also if each lover fills a need... Or is it a matter of a certain level of comfort in the depth they have with each one that makes it work. Its not my reality so this is why I ponder these things in an attempt to understand.


I am so glad you wrote this. THIS is the basis for a thread I started a while back about needs... PLUS, needing someone to fill a need, is quite needy, isn't it... ew.
 
I am so glad you wrote this. THIS is the basis for a thread I started a while back about needs... PLUS, needing someone to fill a need, is quite needy, isn't it... ew.

Well I find it a bit ew. But each to their own. I don't think one can necessarily tell at first. Sometimes NRE gets in the way and things are doing well, so why look at it. It seems to come to the surface in time sometimes. I have found out later or chosen not to pay attention before and then feel used or like I had the wool pulled over my eyes.
 
Actually, as someone new around here who doesn't know your histories or tendencies, I'm glad that GS cleared that up. I was interpreting Ceoli's comment as a form of "works best for everyone" and not "works best for me."

I guess it depends what you meant by relationships being "whole." I interpret that as "meeting all my needs" and like GS said, you can have a really awesome, functional, healthy relationship without it meeting all your needs. I'm bisexual and I really enjoy the love and sexuality of men and women. There's obviously no single person that could meet both those needs, unless they were one of those frogs that can change their gender. But I'm not sexually attracted to frogs, so that leaves me looking for a woman to add to my life and love.


When I say "whole" I mean not broken (as in important needs are not being met, making the relationship difficult to sustain). I don't know of *any* relationship style (mono, poly and everything in between) that works well when relationships are unhealthy and broken.

I'm also bisexual. I definitely have a different feeling about it, though. I don't see my bisexuality as needing to have both genders (and more since I don't believe there are only two genders in this world) in order to be satisfied. It simply means that I can and have been attracted to people who happen to be many different genders.
 
You guys are making some excellent points and it's making me self-reflect...

I do admit that I have, in the past, been guilty of "looking for someone to satisfy x" ... and when I step back and think about it, that has *never* worked! At least not for romance... It's worked very well at fetish events when "I'm looking for someone to tie me up in front of all these people" and I don't think it left anyone feeling the least bit taken advantage of!

In my marriage, despite the fact that there are a few sexual acts that I would enjoy more of, likewise for my husband, I would still say that I have "the whole package." If someone put me in a police state and declared polyamory illegal, and I was forced to be with only one person at a time for the rest of my life, then I definitely don't feel I'd have to leave my husband in order to get my needs met. I feel that all my needs are met right now.

What Ceoli says about bisexuality also makes sense. Since I've never had a long-term relationship with a woman, and I've never felt that there's some huge gaping hole in my life, that should tell me that being in love with a woman isn't a "need" that I have. Perhaps a desire is a better term for it, and desires are very different from needs. I desire chocolate and vacations to the mountains. I need food and shelter. I enjoy both chicken and tofu as sources of protein, but if one is unavailable, I am very satisfied with the other.
 
Its been a few months since I posted on here. My ex came to visit again this weekend after I hadn't seen him for a whole year. We had emailed a fair amount and spoken on the phone a few times. My husband had managed to meet up with him on 3 occasions through the year as they are good friends but I hadn't been able to see him.

Anyway.. this weekend was so lovely. After a year there are definitely still sparks between us. We were cuddling and hand holding a little (discreetly and away from the children) but he was helping out around the house, playing with the kids (of course they already know him since he's a longtime friend) and generally feeling like a really comfortable person to have around. When it was almost time for him to leave I got to sit on the couch between my husband and him and hold both their hands and at one point had them both stroking my leg. Then when he left I kissed him goodbye after asking my husband if it was ok to do so. I told him I think I want a relationship with him but I need to get to know him some more and really really take our time because I definitely don't want to cross any lines and risk hurting my husband, or losing our friend.

Sorry for the dull update lol, this must be one of the slowest growing relationships ever I think.
 
Sorry for the dull update lol, this must be one of the slowest growing relationships ever I think.

Sounds to me like you are building a solid foundation. The rewards of taking your time can be incredibly gratifying and satisfying. Personally I like your "dull" update because it seems you are seeing past the blinding light of NRE and actually thinking every step of the way. You're concern for the existing friendship and the emotions of your husband are a great example!
 
Thankyou very much! I was thinking how much this year of not seeing him has been helpful in allowing us to have some of the NRE stuff die down before we moved on at all.

My husband has been so so wonderful this whole weekend, he took the kids out to the park on the Sunday morning so our friend and I could stay alone together to talk and on our outings he arranged it so he took our six year old (and another family friend) in his car so that I could travel alone with our 2 year old and my ex so that we could talk further. I am so in awe of his thoughtfulness and kindness and the trust he placed in us.
 
Actually its really nice to hear post NRE posts. They speak volumes to what comes along later and how "normal" comes around eventually. Thanks for posting your dull, yet inspiring post :)
 
I'd like to see more "dull" posts. It seems this forum gets a lot of the DRAMA of the coming out, the NRE and the Jealousy struggles.

I like seeing the progression to a new comfortable "normal."

Heck, I'd like to see the end of some of the older introductions... how are they doing? How did it work out?
 
Yes I love hearing how things work out. I'm fortunate enough to have lots of fb friends I met on the forum and get to see that :D of course the venue is totally different and we all get to be far more light there. Its interesting to see where peoples lives go and I have learned a lot about what dynamics works and what don't from continued friendships :)
 
This was some time ago now but I thought I'd post an update. We continue in our slow growing long distance relationship. My husband continues to be amazing and five years in it feels much more normal and relaxed than it did when I originally started this thread.

I still only see my other friend a few times a year and we talk when we can (which works out only every few weeks) but we email, we miss one another from time to time and we get really excited when visits are coming up.

I'm really happy with this constancy of just existing in one another's lives ready to pick up where we left off and love one another when circumstances allow. And I still love the way it feels when the three of us are together. The slowest growing but loveliest situation :)
 
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