Ahhhhhhh Love...

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

Wow. I tried and I really *can't* think of love that way. When I love someone, they are a source of joy in my life and that joy just multiplies between us when we're together. Measuring it in terms of how they can hurt me just doesn't seem to apply. I used to think that way and it just attached far too much pain to love. It's been so much more joyful and easy when I realized what a source of joy people are in life.

That is how I reach my joy in Love Ceoli. Without being that vulnerable I cannot reach that level. Love is not a sad thng for me..it is blissful.

But this thread is not a debate of how I love or an arena to question my interpretations.

Tell us more about what love is for you. I'd like to hear more about the internal workings of Ceoli so I may know her more

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

But this thread is not a debate of how I love or an arena to question my interpretations.

Tell us more about what love is for you. I'd like to hear more about the internal workings of Ceoli so I may know her more

Well, didn't I just say that?
That whole thing about people being a source of joy...or was that missed?

Edit:
Let me rephrase. Funnily enough, what I said wasn't about you or debating how you love. It was about how moving from viewing people as a source of hurt to a source of joy was a very important part of my journey in love.

If that bothers you, then I can't make that my problem.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

If that bothers you, then I can't make that my problem.

You are an interesting person, Ceoli.

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

You are an interesting person, Ceoli.

You'll have to forgive me if I've lost trust that there is positive intention behind ambiguously worded statements like that. Feel free to clear that up with me over PM if you feel so inclined. I'd rather not hijack this thread further.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

Feel free to clear that up with me over PM if you feel so inclined. I'd rather not hijack this thread further.

No need to pursue it on any level. This is a great thread and I look forward to reading the ideas of others.

[SchrodingersCat]

I would say I find personal truth in both versions of love.

For me, love is definitely a source of joy. It also so happens that everyone I truly love has the capacity to cause me a great deal of pain, but I certainly don't characterize love that way. It's more of a biproduct of opening myself up and trusting someone with my heart.

In other words, for me, it's not "I love them because I'm vulnerable to them" but rather "I'm vulnerable to them because I love them."

Just making myself more vulnerable to someone doesn't itself strengthen the connection I feel to them. But in order to truly open myself up to the wonderful possibilities that love has to offer, I must also open myself up to the pain that may come if things go sour.

What we would say in math is that it's "necessary but not sufficient."

I would never presume to "define" love. You know it when you feel it. It's like an orgasm: If you have to ask "was that it?" ... that wasn't it.

[redsirenn]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Do you think it would be possible to throw that switch 'off' - to 'choose' otherwise - to stop loving those who you feel love for ? Granted you might 'choose' to stop certain expressions of it if you were forced to - but could you intentionally cancel what you feel in your heart ?

GS

YES. I could. I have and I could do it again. That is because of how I view "love". I realize there is something else there, inside of you that many define as love. I don't believe it is love. That is my personal discovery. I think love, like many emotions is complex. It is a term used to describe and encompass these feelings. I decided that there is "love" and then there are other emotions or feelings associated in society with the term "love". -

Kind've similar to jealousy, actually, in the sense that jealousy is a term that can encompass many different emotions.

So, Some of those feelings that love is sometimes used to blanket over, such as compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. can stick around if I think of a good memory or something.

Case in point - I have these memories of my abusive ex... It Certainly does NOT mean I love him. EGAD.

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

In other words, for me, it's not "I love them because I'm vulnerable to them" but rather "I'm vulnerable to them because I love them."

Just making myself more vulnerable to someone doesn't itself strengthen the connection I feel to them. But in order to truly open myself up to the wonderful possibilities that love has to offer, I must also open myself up to the pain that may come if things go sour.

I completely agree with that. Vulnerability is a wonderful side effect of being in love. I don't see it as what love hinges on and I also don't really equate being vulnerable to somebody as opening up for them to hurt me. I see being vulnerable as allowing all parts of myself to access the love of my partner.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by redsirenn

YES. I could. I have and I could do it again. That is because of how I view "love". I realize there is something else there, inside of you that many define as love. I don't believe it is love.

Hmmmmm,

Very interesting !
So what do you think this 'something' is ?
And are you meaning to say that you could - or couldn't - 'cancel' that 'something' from your life like you imply that you can cancel your definition of love ?

Love to understand this more........ (oops ! )

And this....

Originally Posted by RS

Some of those feelings that love is sometimes used to blanket over, such as compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. can stick around

So maybe love is really more of an umbrella term made up of various component parts ?
So if I were for example to pick one - say compassion - is it safe for me to say that if I feel deep compassion for someone, that I 'love' them ? Would that be accurate ?

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

I would never presume to "define" love. You know it when you feel it. It's like an orgasm: If you have to ask "was that it?" ... that wasn't it.

And this. I like this. I can relate to it - and think many others can too.
But what IS this "feeling" ? And can you tune it out - deny it ?
Because we're (or at least not I) trying to 'define' love - but to better understand it. If someone tells me they 'love' me - I want to understand better what that implies. And maybe the only implication is that it's going to lead to a conversation such as this
But somewhere, down deep, I don't want to do that. I just want to be able to accept it - as the gift it is ?
And it's only when I go to return that gift and maybe our understanding is not the same that problems arise ?


GS

[redsirenn]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Hmmmmm,

Very interesting !
So what do you think this 'something' is ?
And are you meaning to say that you could - or couldn't - 'cancel' that 'something' from your life like you imply that you can cancel your definition of love ?

Love to understand this more........ (oops ! )

And this....


So maybe love is really more of an umbrella term made up of various component parts ?
So if I were for example to pick one - say compassion - is it safe for me to say that if I feel deep compassion for someone, that I 'love' them ? Would that be accurate ?


GS

No - That would be like saying that because you feel insecure you are jealous. When really you are jealous, and the feeling underlying that could be insecurity.

That "something" is the compassion, etc. that I listed earlier. I think empathy, appreciation, compassion, etc. are important aspects of love. BUT just because I have empathy for someone, certainly doesn't mean I love them. Just google "love is a choice" you will see a ton of stuff come up on that topic.

Furthermore, I think people have alot more control over thier emotions than they realize. I think there are times that you can choose to be happy, sad, angry, resentful, etc. Then there are times you cannot (medical depression) or times when it is certainly harder (death of a loved one).

Sometimes I choose to be sad, even if I do not want to be... Because I feel there are times when it is warranted and actually healthy to live in that emotion for a while. Other times i say "fuck off" to it.

This is all my opinion, of course... and how I try to live my life.