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  #31  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:45 PM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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LR, I totally get how you feel on this issue. My husband and I have never, not even once, paid a sitter to come to our house and watch our kids so that we could go out and do something social or adult. WE take turns, or we bring them along. Maybe my parents take them once in a while so we get a date night, but they live an hour away so that is not often.

I do pay a sitter during the day when I need to work and TB is at work too. But that is one person that we have been bringing our kids to for 5 years. Same woman, and our kids love going there. Now that we have a teenager who is old enough to watch the little ones, we will take one or two nights a month together. But, really, they are OUR kids and WE take responsibility for them at all times. Not that I think that parents who DO hire babysitters are not, just that we have never wanted to do that.

My BF is the same way. He has two teens, who need ferrying to various sports and school events. He will not make arrangements for someone else to pick them up just so he can come and meet with me. WE work around THEIR schedule. His kids will only be living at home a few more years. I will not take that time away from him.

AS to being able to speak to you directly, well some people are just not good at direct communication. They probably think it's easier to negotiate or pass along messages through their partner, hoping that the "Love" will filter out any hostility or misunderstanding. But, really, it is triangular communication, AND the telephone game. Just today my husband asked me to tell my BF something, and I was like "Why dont you just Facebook him yourself?!?!"
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Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:56 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by MeeraReed View Post
I missed the original context of this, LR, but you are coming across as sounding crazy-jealous of any women who want to date Maca.
I completely disagree. That may be your interpretation, but I think she's coming across as a woman who just wants to manage her own life herself.

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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
They think it's ANNOYING when people expect that everything needs to go through a third party.
I really wish I'd learned how to do this when my husband's daughter used to visit. She was already a teenager and I knew I was never going to be "like a mother" to her, so I was always timid about telling her what to do in my own house. I felt like I needed to ask my husband to ask her to pick up after herself, or else I'd be perceived as the wicked stepmother. But if I could do that all over again, I'd say fuck it: you're a teenager visiting my house, please hang up your towels and put your dishes in the dishwasher.

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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
If I have an issue with one of their friends or coworkers or boss-I call them myself.
OK, it took me a minute to realize that you said if you have an issue with their boss... At first I was imagining a situation where Maca comes home complaining about his boss being a jerk, and you call up the boss and tell him off. Recently, Gralson had some trouble with some bullshit at work. I'm just trying to imagine how much he'd freak the fuck out if I called up his supervisor and stuck my nose into his professional life like that. It would not go over well, let's leave it at that. But I don't think that's at all what you're talking about. If he brought home a coworker who proceeded to wear muddy boots through the house, you can bet your ass I wouldn't sit there waiting for Gralson to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by london View Post
I shouldn't need to speak up about a metamour mistreating me, my partner should already be making sure that doesn't happen. I shouldn't need rules to ensure my partner(S) protect and maintain our relationship, that should be something they do naturally. I don't want to babysitting anyone. I don't want to have to speak for my partner, I don't want to have to overrule him, I don't want to have to have his relationships for him.
You don't want to have to speak for your partner... and yet you're saying that you want your partner to speak for you. Curious.

People are not omniscient. Problems could come up that are completely unpredictable. I can't imagine anything more disempowering than needing my husband to speak on my behalf every time there's an issue. Hello 1850s... If an unexpected issue arises between you and your metamour, wouldn't be much simpler to just deal with it yourselves, like two grown-ups? Not only is it more efficient, but it doesn't require that the mutual partner even fully understand the issue. And let's face it: most men will never fully understand the issues that come up between two women.

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Originally Posted by london View Post
However, the idea of having to police their other relationships because your partner(s) are unable to maintain those boundaries is undesirable at best.
If you're asking your partner to tell his other partner how to treat you, then you're actually asking your partner to manage the relationship between you and the other partner.

LR isn't policing the relationships between her partners and their other partners. She's policing the relationships between HERSELF and her partners' other partners. And who could possibly be better qualified to police her own relationships than she herself?

At the end of the day, the responsibility to maintain my boundaries is mine and mine alone. I don't expect my partners to spend all their time talking about me and my boundaries. It's my job to tell people where my boundaries are and when they're being crossed. The most I can expect from my partners is to choose other partners who aren't douchebags, so that boundary-crossing will be as infrequent as possible.
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  #33  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:45 AM
london london is offline
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*You don't want to have to speak for your partner... and yet you're saying that you want your partner to speak for you. Curious.*

No, if my partner and I have an agreement about something, I shouldn't have to be the person to enforce that agreement with his partner. That's not speaking for me, that's him maintaining his relationship with me.

Quote:
If you're asking your partner to tell his other partner how to treat you,
I'm not though. I want very casual, distant relationships with my metamours. They don't get to "treat me" any way at all because we do/will have very little contact, if any. That's why someone would have to really go out of their way to impact on our relationship and if they did go that far out of their way, it would be my partner's job to nip it in the bud. If he didn't, I would be wanting words with him, not her. And that goes for everything: rules around our home, our kids, our relationship(s), family etc etc. It's his job to maintain those boundaries in his other relationships, not mine. An inability to do this spells trouble to me.

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It's my job to tell people where my boundaries are and when they're being crossed
I agree that it's one's job to tell one's partner(s) where their boundaries lay and when they have been crossed. It's the idea that one should routinely expect to have to maintain those boundaries in other relationships that I wholly disagree with.
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2013, 02:03 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I think it could be a case of "my interdependent poly isn't your independent poly."

Both approaches resonate with me.

When I was younger, single -- I wanted an independent model. I wanted to be with my partner and beyond him? I didn't want to deal with it. I wasn't interested in his family, his friends, his other dating partners. Beyond what I needed to know for calendar (sorry, I have a family bday) or sex health (That person I'm seeing? It's looking to go lover soon....) I didn't care to know. If he wanted to share, I'd listen. But I wasn't going to ask too deeply. The expectation was that it was his job to keep them from crossing lines and if he couldn't? We could be done. The expectation was that I would be doing same on my end of things.

At that time I just didn't want drama, too many shared entanglements, etc. I knew the polymath was there -- it always is. But certain tiers for me were not close. It was "live in the present only." It was just the NOW -- no past entanglements or planning future ones. It was fun.

As a married with kids now? I want an interdependent model and as a result my polysaturation point is different. Past, present, and future entanglements do apply now. When there's entanglements like shared children, aging parents, mortgages, cars, bank accounts, other property -- my way of going is different because my emotional energy/time management is different than it used to be.

It's neither here nor there to me. I think interdependent and independent models each have their strengths and limitations -- just in different places. Both approaches can work within their respective models.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-26-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:10 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I agree that it's one's job to tell one's partner(s) where their boundaries lay and when they have been crossed. It's the idea that one should routinely expect to have to maintain those boundaries in other relationships that I wholly disagree with.
May I assume "other relationships" only refers to partners of your partners?

I was referring to all aspects of life: partners, metamours, friends, family, co-workers, the guy staring at you in the supermarket, solicitors coming to the door... Metamours are but one small component of "outside relations."

To me, if having to maintain my boundaries with my metamours becomes a full time job, then there's a bigger problem than "who should be enforcing this?" At that point, the conversation isn't "you need to control your girlfriend," it's "your girlfriend needs to get the fuck out of my life." Since you mention keeping them at a distance, it sounds like you crossed that line before it was drawn.
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The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:44 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post


OK, it took me a minute to realize that you said if you have an issue with their boss... At first I was imagining a situation where Maca comes home complaining about his boss being a jerk, and you call up the boss and tell him off. Recently, Gralson had some trouble with some bullshit at work. I'm just trying to imagine how much he'd freak the fuck out if I called up his supervisor and stuck my nose into his professional life like that. It would not go over well, let's leave it at that. But I don't think that's at all what you're talking about. If he brought home a coworker who proceeded to wear muddy boots through the house, you can bet your ass I wouldn't sit there waiting for Gralson to do something about it.
Giggle-no-he has all sorts of venting to do about work. That's not my business except to patiently listen.
I meant if I had an issue.
He does work for a small company-his boss is married to a lady I grew up with and Maca does consider him a friend.
The prior boss-did actually call me periodically about things such as wanting to send Maca out of town for work-because the company is run on the basis of family first. So they try to work with the families in so much as possible.
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  #37  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:55 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Giggle-no-he has all sorts of venting to do about work. That's not my business except to patiently listen.
I meant if I had an issue.
He does work for a small company-his boss is married to a lady I grew up with and Maca does consider him a friend.
The prior boss-did actually call me periodically about things such as wanting to send Maca out of town for work-because the company is run on the basis of family first. So they try to work with the families in so much as possible.
Yup. Gralson works for a big national company full of unionized morons who place seniority above competence and even safety. As satisfying as it would be to call up some assistant foreman and scream at him for almost getting my husband killed, I don't think that would be especially productive.

"Family...family...Oh! You mean the support staff back home, who do your laundry and pack your lunch. Yeah, family is great! What? You want time off because your old lady is going in for surgery? Wellll... I gueeessss so... If you must. But doesn't she have some, like, girlfriends or something that can go with her? How soon can you be back?"
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #38  
Old 08-27-2013, 12:00 PM
london london is offline
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At that point, the conversation isn't "you need to control your girlfriend," it's "your girlfriend needs to get the fuck out of my life." Since you mention keeping them at a distance, it sounds like you crossed that line before it was drawn.
Other than being able to support our partner in the same place when he wants us to, I see no reason for me to foster a friendship with a metamour. If we happen to meet and really get along well, there is no reason for us not to be friends, but it isn't something that I need.
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  #39  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:18 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
Other than being able to support our partner in the same place when he wants us to, I see no reason for me to foster a friendship with a metamour. If we happen to meet and really get along well, there is no reason for us not to be friends, but it isn't something that I need.
And that's perfectly valid. However, it does put you in a completely different situation than LR, who prefers to have friendships with her metamours, and whose partners prefer to bring their other partners home. Your approach of letting your partner be a buffer would never work if your metamours were frequently in your space. Then like with any friend, you would need to stand up for your own self.

Because your and LR's family arrangements and friendship preference are completely different, it's nonsense to make the leap from
Quote:
I shouldn't need to speak up about a metamour mistreating me, my partner should already be making sure that doesn't happen.
to a generalized
Quote:
it is up to an individual to ensure one relationship does not negatively impact on others
To turn it on its head, Maca and GG are metamours and they live together. Obviously that would never happen in your world. But in theirs, it would be ludicrous to expect LR to buffer their interactions.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 08-27-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:21 PM
london london is offline
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Nope, I still can't see how anything changes once you drop the expectation to have metamours that you like. A house rule such as no smoking should be maintained by my partner and if I don't want to spend time with my metamour whilst s/he is in our home, I'll go somewhere else so we don't share the same space.
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