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  #21  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:27 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by polyq4 View Post
Really, We have been a fourple (quad) now for over 5 years. I still want to know how such a general statement can be made?
Have to agree.. I am in my 3rd year of the same setup, with kids, co parenting and the whole family dynamic.. going strong at this stage with no end in site.

I tend to think people project on others what hasn't or doesn't work for them. So I accept people saying pairing and coupling doesn't work.. *shrugs*..

If you go by this site and others online then 95% (pulling that from my butt) of poly relationships fail. So any poly setup is likely to blow up. Just go in accepting that fact and enjoy the relationships for what they are. Be true to yourself and keep yourself healthy and hopefully your partners will respect that as well..

Thats true for any relationship structure though..
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:36 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Sorry it didn't work out the way you'd hoped. I guess it's good that it was discovered early on that this wasn't going to work.

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I wouldn't date someone with a one penis policy anyway
These kinds of rules are indicative of an insecure partner. Insecure partners who are dealing with it by creating rules instead of dealing with it by growing past their insecurity is a good sign that there are choppy waters ahead.

Good call, on your part.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:53 PM
gorgeouskitten gorgeouskitten is offline
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These kinds of rules are indicative of an insecure partner. Insecure partners who are dealing with it by creating rules instead of dealing with it by growing past their insecurity is a good sign that there are choppy waters ahead.

Good call, on your part.
totally agree Marcus, thanks. Im glad I found out sooner rather than later, as well as my spouse before he got anymore involved with her
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:54 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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The reasons why in my opinion so many poly relationship fail can be summed up by "too many cooks spoil the soup."

Too many have people meddling in relationships that are not their own. My husband has no say what so ever in my relationship with Murf. Just like Murf has no say in what goes on between Butch and I.
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2013, 05:20 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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The reasons why in my opinion so many poly relationship fail can be summed up by "too many cooks spoil the soup."

Too many have people meddling in relationships that are not their own.
Based on the research I made into hundreds of poly setups (I wrote a book on poly) this is not quite true - or at least not in Western Europe. Other parts of the world may be different of course.

The main dynamic I saw in the breakdowns I studied was lack of clear agreements (or agreements that were broken) coupled with poor negotiation and communication skills. Add to that the fact that society doesn't generally support poly configurations. External support is difficult to source when things go pear-shaped and many people simply respond with "I told you it would never work" rather than trying to be helpful.

The main underlying cause for breakdowns was very often that people had expectations and/or ideals that did not match with the reality of their situations. But this is quite human, no?
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  #26  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:27 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Northhome you are always are pointing out that you have written books on poly and etc, but in reading through your posting history I have not ran across any PERSONAL accounts or experience that you may have. Just what you have claimed to research.

Research has its merit but I am sorry people aren't always completely candid when being interviewed as apart of someone's study.

Just because you have written a book doesn't mean you are an expert. Just like a degree isn't proof that someone truly is educated on their chosen field of study. It just proves that you were able to regurgitate what your teachers wanted you to learn.

For example i have dealt with vet techs straight out of school who think they are ready to conquer the world and know it all. But they are taught in a controlled environment the first time they hit a SNAFU they fall apart. Life has a habit of not following the rules. I would rather learn from someone who has been there done that and has the T-shirt than someone who just has clinical experience.
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  #27  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northhome View Post
Based on the research I made into hundreds of poly setups (I wrote a book on poly) this is not quite true - or at least not in Western Europe. Other parts of the world may be different of course.

The main dynamic I saw in the breakdowns I studied was lack of clear agreements (or agreements that were broken) coupled with poor negotiation and communication skills.

The main underlying cause for breakdowns was very often that people had expectations and/or ideals that did not match with the reality of their situations. But this is quite human, no?
People having expectations which aren't voiced clearly would certainly cause any relationship to have breakdowns. However, this breakdown is going to happen in any case if the expectations of the people involved are not compatible and certainly when the expectations themselves are unreasonable. In this case, if everyone is very clear and up front at the very beginning then the relationship stops before it starts. If everyone is using muddled and half assed communication then the relationship will fall apart at some point in the future.

Simply expressing an idea clearly does not validate it nor does it ensure that the people who you expect to act in a certain way have any intention of doing so.

I suspect the only types of relationships which fall apart simply due to shitty communication are the ones which never really had any problems to begin with; relationships whose big issues are the minutia of living day to day and getting on each others nerves while doing it.

There is something to be said about the nature of these expectations and the agreements/boundaries/rules built from them. If the expectation is that the people around me are going to change their behavior to suit my insecurity... that expectation will cause problems for all but the most compliant of partners; it will cause me to end the association outright. The crystal clear communication, in this case, simply decided when the relationship would break down, not *if* it was going to break down.

I suppose people can "negotiate" some kind of compromise so that the relationship trudges on and everyone is only a little unhappy.
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  #28  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:00 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
but in reading through your posting history I have not ran across any PERSONAL accounts or experience that you may have.
I have mentioned that I have lived in a triad for 4 years. It's quite drama free so not much to report.

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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Just what you have claimed to research.

Research has its merit but I am sorry people aren't always completely candid when being interviewed as apart of someone's study.
My co-author is the foremost poly-friendly counselor in The Netherlands. I'd be happy to forward you her details if you'd like to know more. Our data was based on her (and others) case studies. Not interviews.

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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Just because you have written a book doesn't mean you are an expert.
That's very true. On the other hand the work I have done means that my opinions are not purely subjective.

I'm sorry my information was not of use or interest to you. Feel free to ignore it.
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  #29  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:22 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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I suppose people can "negotiate" some kind of compromise so that the relationship trudges on and everyone is only a little unhappy.
The negotiation I refer to is not about trying to find a "middle way" where all concerned are giving up a bit of their happiness to keep the peace. Instead it's more about creating opportunities for growing relationships, both collectively and as individuals, without destroying the fabric that holds the relationship together.

It's all about moving out of the fabled 'comfort zone' and into growth without tipping over into panic. If people can find a way to support each other in this process it often leads to very healthy, vibrant relationships in my own personal and professional experience.
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  #30  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by northhome View Post
The negotiation I refer to is not about trying to find a "middle way" where all concerned are giving up a bit of their happiness to keep the peace. Instead it's more about creating opportunities for growing relationships, both collectively and as individuals, without destroying the fabric that holds the relationship together.
I'm in favor of challenging worldview and growing intellectually. Having honest and emotionally neutral discussion is a good way to do it - in my relationships it is one of the primary things that winds me up (in the best way possible). I would never call that "negotiation".

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the poetic phrasing "fabric that holds the relationship together" but I suspect this might be what we are disagreeing about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northhome View Post
It's all about moving out of the fabled 'comfort zone' and into growth without tipping over into panic. If people can find a way to support each other in this process it often leads to very healthy, vibrant relationships in my own personal and professional experience.
I have to tell you, every time you flash your resume I laugh. I get why you do it, because you want to explain where your opinion is coming from - but arguments from authority are often going to cause problems with people who are aware of the tactic.

As a natural consequence of having frank and clear discussions about opinions and experiences we have a tendency toward expanding our approach to interpreting the world. On that, you and I agree.

What we don't agree on (as far as I can tell) is that this exposure to new ideas and personal expectations breeds some kind of direct change, as if all a person needs to correct their broken thought processes is for someone to clearly and constructively say "that thought process is broken and here is why". It is probably because I find personal growth to be a personal journey - not a group journey. I've heard many really great opinions in my life and most of the time I disregarded it and moved on with my life, only to come back to learn from it years later.

Clear communication is good, but I think it is only a very small part of a relationship between adults... contrary to the current popular belief.
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