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  #61  
Old 08-18-2013, 12:30 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
And that's the key thing. The way I see it, making a rule or guideline about how much it is appropriate for your partner to see their new partner shouldn't be necessary. Hopefully, I would have chosen a partner who understands that NRE isn't an excuse to forget your obligations to your existing relationships.

If your partner meets someone who wants to spend so much time with them that maintaining other relationships or responsibilities is difficult, it should be them who negotiates that with their new partner because of their desire to maintain all the relationships they have, not because we have a rule that they have to abide by. I shouldn't need to enforce a boundary that quantifies what is too much. My partner is in our relationship too, they should know what will fuck with our shit and take steps to avoid it.
Well, nowhere did I say I (or we, me, my gf, my bf) had a rule or guideline about overnights, just a preference based on practicalities, needs, desires for closeness and alone time, comfort levels, so we are on the same page.
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  #62  
Old 08-19-2013, 02:08 AM
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If your partner meets someone who wants to spend so much time with them that maintaining other relationships or responsibilities is difficult, it should be them who negotiates that with their new partner because of their desire to maintain all the relationships they have, not because we have a rule that they have to abide by. I shouldn't need to enforce a boundary that quantifies what is too much. My partner is in our relationship too, they should know what will fuck with our shit and take steps to avoid it.
I think something that gets missed (a lot) in these conversations is a detail.

WE have a rule/agreement/boundary.

As in-we talked and agreed that we all feel xyz is important to all of us and we agree to uphold it.

That doesn't mean "I" make Maca enforce xyz with other partners.
That means we all three back each other up with anyone else who tries to press any of us to break these agreements.

I got SO MUCH SHIT from the local community when I set my foot down with a woman who flat tried to tell me that I would let my daughter go socialize with her and her daughter-because she was a potential date for Maca.
He had tried to tell her no-she was walking over him.
He is soft spoken. He didn't want to offend her and he was in a quandry with himself over the fact that he liked her, was attracted to her, was caught up in "omg this might be the only woman who will date a married man in the whole state".

But-that is all irrelevant-the bottom line is-WE already have agreed to what is in the best interests of our children and THAT IS NOT IT.
We re-discussed in in light of the person in question specifically (as we do with all new people) and were MORE certain that it wasn't in their best interests. So the answer was NO.
I AM more vocal and when she stepped up to me on the topic-hell yes I did tell her NO I WILL NOT ALLOW IT.

Which got interpreted by teh community as "LR is controlling Maca".
No. No I'm not. He can see anyone he darn well pleases.
But he doesn't want to break agreements that ARE important to him also. Just because he chooses to just walk away silently and not look back-doesn't mean I am dragging him on a leash.

I don't need a "rule" to tell me that I am not going to go out and screw someone I met today.
I only have an agreement-so I know what is meaningful to my current partners and what doesn't matter-that way I can decide what my priorities are.
IF I don't know what matters to them-I can't consider their preferences in my decisions.

So-yeah-the whole anti-rule thing is annoying. rule/boundary/framework/understanding/agreement.

Call it what you will. It IS important that people identify what their hard and soft limits are AND KEEP THEIR PARTNERS AWARE. If they choose to do that in writing or verbally or whatever-who gives a shit?
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  #63  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:47 AM
london london is offline
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I think that it is your husband's responsibility to maintain the boundaries you have agreed in his other relationships. If NRE/a crush compromised his ability to do that, especially in relation to our kids, that would be an issue. A big issue.
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  #64  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:16 PM
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Yes London it would-and if he then tells her to bug off-and she refuses and continues to meddle in any way she can-such as following me to every single social event I plan or attend-
then it would become my privilege to tell her to fuck off publicly.

The point is-that just because something looks reasonable at first glance-doesn't mean it's going to continue that way.

On this board-people get all wired up over "omg you/you or you have no right to "make rules" over xyz blah blah blah because.....

when they read that people have rules or agreements.

As Mag noted (while I was writing my post) she didn't even SAY SHE HAD A RULE. They have an agreement.

If I and my partners agree that we don't want anyone doing handstands around our family-
that is TOTALLY OUR RIGHT.
And ANY OONE OF US is free to tell ANYONE ELSE that they need to knock it the fuck off.

Who is fucking who doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the handstand person is only fucking GG.
I can still say "knock your handstands off or get off the property".
Because it's OUR home and it's OUR family.

I think way way way way way too much focus is put on "who is the sex partner".
Who cares?

IF you have totally segregated lives that can work fine. (much like Nycindie has outlined her lifestyle).

If like us you have completely integrated lives-it doesn't work. Because whose having sex with whom is completely irrelevant. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY (friend, lover etc) with our FAMILY in any way that means they will be hanging out in OUR space is subject to OUR rules and expectations for OUR family in OUR home.

IF someone becomes PART OF OUR FAMILY-then they get to participate in the creating/changing/updating of OUR family rules (which has happened on numerous occasions as various people move in and out of the home over the years.

But someone doesn't get the privilege of only being subject to ONE person telling them the rules because that's who they share sex with. I don't give a hot damn whose screwing who. We have had adult children living here with their spouses-STILL have to function within the family dynamic of expectations & ANYONE is free to point out when that is not being done. Not just their spouse.

Same with kids. If joe blows kids come over to stay for the night-they are subject to OUR rules and they will follow OUR rules and they will be told by WHOEVER IS HERE AT THE TIME-not just THEIR parent.

It's truly truly ridiculous-because if we are really talking about adults-as everyone keeps pointing out-then the truth is we also are capable of realizing that all adults have moments when they have a need or a failure or a weakness or they are busy or what the fuck ever.

So if my boyfriend is being a dickhead and my hsuband is the one standing there-he's going to say "GG-you are being a dickhead and need to back off". If I'm standing there I will say it.

If I am in the hospital and find out I have some rare and highly infectious disease-my husband and boyfriend will notify whoever needs to know-including any other people who were potentially exposed-regardless of who was sleeping with whom etc.
And reverse.

And then there is the whole "privacy thing".

Seriously?
I have herpes. Maca and GG do not.
WE ARE FLUID BONDED and have been for 15 and 20 years respectively. We will continue to be until we decide not to be.

TECHNICALLY it's not their place to share about my herpes because of all of the various "privacy" privileges of metamours. THEY don't have it. THey are responsible to share that we are fluidbonded.
BUT I HAVE a responsibility to share.

EVERY POTENTIAL except the one I met first; Maca has EVER dated in this poly community has been disinterested in meeting me, hearing about me, knowing ANYTHING about me & thought sti testing could be tossed to the wayside "because they knew they weren't exposed to anything". IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ANY OF THEM to give a shit if he was! NOT ONE.
EVERY SINGLE ONE was offended when he insisted that sti testing was a REQUIREMENT and they ALL brought up the expense.
They all figured it was reasonable to "just use condoms".
OKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
so you are ok with the risk of getting whatever sti's HE could have at any given point???

Every time-he tried to tell them about me-they went on a trip over not wanting to cross boundaries of privacy-everything about them is private between him and then-everything about me is private between him and I.

UM NO YOU FUCKTARDS-I have an sti and by your own idiocy if he sleeps with you (or kisses you or a half a dozen other things you aren't realizing as you try to crawl all over him in my kitchen with your hands down his pants and tongue down his throat) YOU COULD GET TOO.
He hasn't gotten it-but he could at any time because we DO NOT avoid each other sexually or use protection.

So they don't become lovers and they are pissy.

It's asinine.

Yeah there's a theory that all adults are mature and should act xyz way. But we do not live in utopia.
Yeah there's a theory that in some situations having no contact and no info works. But not in a family environment.

And yeah I've heard the theory that in relationships each person should be individually responsible for all of the "boundary crossing monitoring" of their own relationships & in theory its great.
But in reality-that's not always great.
The same rule is applied to stepparents. Guess what? I was the stepparent who had a child 24/7 while BOTH PARENTS WERE GONE FOR WEEKS AT A TIME. So the kid has no fucking rules because the bio parent should always discipline? No. That's asinine.
Same kind of asinine as suggesting that if someone is crossing over OUR boundaries and in doing so is stepping on MY FOOT that I should not be free to say "GET THE FUCK OFF MY FOOT". Then his/her partner can discuss with them what the hell ever they need to discuss. But if they are on MY FOOT it just became MY business that they get the hell off it.

Off rant.
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  #65  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:13 PM
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i'm sorry, i can't even begin to read something with all those caps and shouty stuff. Sensory Overload. If you'd like me to read and reply, kindly tone all that down. Maybe use italics sparingly for emphasis.
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  #66  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:28 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
i'm sorry, i can't even begin to read something with all those caps and shouty stuff. Sensory Overload. If you'd like me to read and reply, kindly tone all that down. Maybe use italics sparingly for emphasis.
That's really a shame.

Less than 10% of that rant is in CAPs (she didn't even use bold). And she used plenty of white space to break up the major points in her rant. I thought it was rather well done. But her follow up post about circles and squares (in the thread that she split off) is even clearer - you probably can't read it though - it's about the same proportion of CAPs.

JaneQ

PS. I'll keep in mind that you much prefer italics if I am in a position where I am addressing you in particular.

PPS. I'm much too fond of parantheticals and asides set off with dashes or ellipses. How do you feel about those?


*********************

On another note - while I do agree that it is the person who made the agreement's responsibility to enforce that agreement with any other partners, I ALSO think that it is well within the realm of reason for affected partners to point out (to whomever) that the agreement is not being upheld. If you aren't going to whole-heartedly OWN the agreement made then you shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

I wrote about a related topic in one of my blog posts here about individual/couple/vee boundaries:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...83&postcount=2

JaneQ
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MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 08-19-2013 at 10:45 PM. Reason: more content
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  #67  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:39 AM
london london is offline
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while I do agree that it is the person who made the agreement's responsibility to enforce that agreement with any other partners, I ALSO think that it is well within the realm of reason for affected partners to point out (to whomever) that the agreement is not being upheld. If you aren't going to whole-heartedly OWN the agreement made then you shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.
I don't necessarily think it's wrong for a person to point out an agreement isn't being upheld, but it's the principle of needing to remind your partner that something is breaking the rules. They should know and they should want to fix that. Them not acknowledging that would make me feel that they need babysitting in their other relationships. Not cool.

As for the caps thing, I shout words that are in caps in my head. I have no wish to shout at myself so if I see that sort of caps frenzy where someone is obviously responding emotively, I don't even bother. It hurts my brain.
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  #68  
Old 08-21-2013, 02:27 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I don't necessarily think it's wrong for a person to point out an agreement isn't being upheld, but it's the principle of needing to remind your partner that something is breaking the rules. They should know and they should want to fix that. Them not acknowledging that would make me feel that they need babysitting in their other relationships. Not cool.
Fair enough. They should know and they should want to fix that. But people in an NRE-haze are not always thinking straight. The are in what is essentially a drug-induced state (even if the drug is their own neuro-hormones), sometimes they do need babysitting so they don't hurt themselves (or others) until they "come down." (Often thanking their erstwhile babysitters for not "letting" them do something/make decisions that would have caused harm.) No, it is not cool. But we are all human and subject to our own neurobiology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
As for the caps thing, I shout words that are in caps in my head. I have no wish to shout at myself so if I see that sort of caps frenzy where someone is obviously responding emotively, I don't even bother. It hurts my brain.
Ah, I can understand not wanting to hurt your brain (I like my brain, it is my friend). At work, I have to endure messages that are ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME (the computers are set to all caps - you actually have to turn it off - most people don't, I do - the next person always resets it) - so I am relatively immune to it by now. I read caps in a situation like this (where they are clearly being used as emphasis) as being in a "strident" tone as opposed to being SHOUTED. (Perhaps because nobody ever shouts at me in real life? Or I would leave the room.) Perhaps you could try reading them out loud and find a tone that says "I really, really want to emphasize this phrase" rather than "I am yelling at you and beating you into submission with the decibel-level"?

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #69  
Old 08-21-2013, 02:33 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I read caps in a situation like this (where they are clearly being used as emphasis) as being in a "strident" tone as opposed to being SHOUTED. (Perhaps because nobody ever shouts at me in real life? Or I would leave the room.) Perhaps you could try reading them out loud and find a tone that says "I really, really want to emphasize this phrase" rather than "I am yelling at you and beating you into submission with the decibel-level"?

JaneQ

I write the way I talk and caps are emphasis. Also, bold and italics and underline and color all require more key strokes and a total change in location of my hands. Whereas caps do not.
I really can't imagine typing a whole thing in caps unless I had caplocks on and was too lazy to turn it off? It would be a pain in the arse to hold the shift key that long.

But-certain words are key words. Like pronouncing names-there are some words that have multiple possible sounds if the emphasis is on the wrong syllable. Likewise-sentences can have different meaning if the emphasis is on one word versus another word.
I use caps to emphasis words in those scenarios.

I did attempt to post one post for London's benefit-using all sorts of other emphasis means (color, underline, bold etc) on the other thread.

But at any rate... carry on carry on... cause it doesn't really matter (I also use ellipses for longer pauses than a period or comma & parentheses for a thought I had that isn't directly pertinent to what was written in the paragraph but when through my mind at whatever point in the writing that I place the parenthesized phrase).
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:12 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I write the way I talk and caps are emphasis. Also, bold and italics and underline and color all require more key strokes and a total change in location of my hands. Whereas caps do not.
I really can't imagine typing a whole thing in caps unless I had caplocks on and was too lazy to turn it off? It would be a pain in the arse to hold the shift key that long.
Yep, I also use caps to emphasize, not shout. I think I'm too old to see all caps as shouting unless it's a whole sentence. I learned to type on a typewriter and there was no such thing as bold and underlining required backspacing or re-aligning the paper after the paragraph was finished. LR [ctrl] B before typing will turn on the bold, [crtl] u = underline, [ctrl] i = Italics, etc. gotta love old school word processing commands .

I took a class once and it's a proven fact, that all caps is harder to read than lowercase or a mix of upper/lower case.
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