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  #21  
Old 08-10-2013, 01:31 AM
london london is offline
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I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?
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  #22  
Old 08-10-2013, 03:18 AM
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Arabella Arabella is offline
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Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
Actually developing a relationship with another woman is probably the healthiest thing he could do, but only once he's in a good place.

Once he realizes choosing to live a poly lifestyle with you means the ability to be with another woman (should he meet one and fall in love naturally), I think he may be very happy and grateful to be with you
Yes, this is how our story went (so far.) After over a year of falling apart every time I went out with the boyfriend, he finally got a relationship of his own, as he wanted, but he wasn't really attracted to her, she was just available for him. Four months and two girlfriends later, he's now with a woman who loves him as much as he loves her and he's genuinely happy. (And the sexual chemistry/attraction is there.) We get to talk about how he handled things in the past and how we all want to handle them in the future.

He's really a much better person now, to me and to himself. But he did have to have a couple quick relationships to finally realize that he needed more than someone to "fill the void." Trial and error, but it worked out well.
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2013, 05:50 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?

I have to agree with the general sense of this comment. Has anyone played out the possible scenarios of what you want or whats being suggested ?

Scenarios:
You have a roommate relationship. You start spending more time with BF. You starting a sexual relationship with BF. Him finding a gf ...starting sexual relationship. You forcing yourself to be the in house sex worker to facilitate the other side of this trade (keeping someone happy) All these seem to have higher odds of going down the same negative path ...split/divorce. Even him finding a GF...( deck stacked so heavily against him ) but let say he does ....door pretty open to a cowgirl ...or wider still of him finding a more suitable life partner. Unless that's part of the soft let down and exist strategy.

Sounds to me like he is agreeing to hang on and not break up the family? Outside of that why would he want to stay married to you ? do you have a good high paying job, you're a great housekeeper, etc, etc ....or the fear of being ripped apart in a divorce?

I might of asked this before sorry if I did ...Is he a member and has he read this thread ?

I know one way to get over things is to see and hear the hard truth. Sensing your wife might not be in the mood is one thing ...KNOWING she been doing it out of obligation or pity is quite another. Also knowing if all obstacles were removed it would be a completely different story.

Roles reversed how would you react if he or the new Bf told you that?
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2013, 05:10 PM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?
We have both considered that, and even before this relationship came up for us(me). Truth is, we have been together a long time, we do love each other, and we have three kids. Not so easy to just walk away from. Neither of us does major change well, although I have adapted better than he in this way.We are just not ready to give up.

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Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
Yes, this is how our story went (so far.) After over a year of falling apart every time I went out with the boyfriend, he finally got a relationship of his own, as he wanted, but he wasn't really attracted to her, she was just available for him. Four months and two girlfriends later, he's now with a woman who loves him as much as he loves her and he's genuinely happy. (And the sexual chemistry/attraction is there.) We get to talk about how he handled things in the past and how we all want to handle them in the future.

He's really a much better person now, to me and to himself. But he did have to have a couple quick relationships to finally realize that he needed more than someone to "fill the void." Trial and error, but it worked out well.
I do hope we can get there, for his sake. I want this for him, to be happy. IF it will make him happy. Part of is that he has never been in relationship with more than one person, ever. He does not how it works, or how it feels. So for me to try and explain it just doesnt carry over right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I have to agree with the general sense of this comment. Has anyone played out the possible scenarios of what you want or whats being suggested ?

Scenarios:
You have a roommate relationship. You start spending more time with BF. You starting a sexual relationship with BF. Him finding a gf ...starting sexual relationship. You forcing yourself to be the in house sex worker to facilitate the other side of this trade (keeping someone happy) All these seem to have higher odds of going down the same negative path ...split/divorce. Even him finding a GF...( deck stacked so heavily against him ) but let say he does ....door pretty open to a cowgirl ...or wider still of him finding a more suitable life partner. Unless that's part of the soft let down and exist strategy.

Sounds to me like he is agreeing to hang on and not break up the family? Outside of that why would he want to stay married to you ? do you have a good high paying job, you're a great housekeeper, etc, etc ....or the fear of being ripped apart in a divorce?

I might of asked this before sorry if I did ...Is he a member and has he read this thread ?

I know one way to get over things is to see and hear the hard truth. Sensing your wife might not be in the mood is one thing ...KNOWING she been doing it out of obligation or pity is quite another. Also knowing if all obstacles were removed it would be a completely different story.

Roles reversed how would you react if he or the new Bf told you that?
I would feel shitty, granted. It is part of why I am doing my best to be flexible with him, and give him the chance to integrate the information. Not to make him feel bad, just to help him understand that he is sometimes asking me to do something I dont want to do. He experiences sadness and grief over the fact that I dont WANT to, not so much that I wont do it....


I had a shitty shitty week in terms of work. We saw a therapist the same day (was scheduled anyway) and we both liked her. Have another appt this week. Hoping to make some headway soon....

Willow
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Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming... ~ Dori


Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2013, 06:43 PM
Eternaldarkness Eternaldarkness is offline
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I'm probably about to make myself very very unpopular on this forum, but I have to say that I disagree with most of what's been said here. I put myself in your husbands shoes based on what you said, and asked myself 'How would I feel?'

As it turns out, it wasn't that hard. I have been in his position, and I recalled very painfully something I had thought i'd resolved. If I were him, I would have already begun the process of ending the relationship. Not because of just the sex component - which is important no matter how much others may it isn't.

It's true that you shouldn't have to 'pacify' him. But not only do you not have to, you don't want and aren't willing to do it anyway out of love. That's three strikes right there. In relationships, we should sometimes do things we don't want to to make a partner happy. That, too, is part of a healthy relationship (i know others will disagree).

He feels superfluous in your life because he is. The connection, the foundation upon which your relationship existed is crumbling and he's scrambling to fix it before the whole thing comes down because he loves you. The other guy is everything he is, and better (you said your BF did a lot of the same things he does; that hurts).

It seems like your personal limits are quite a bit more conservative than his actual desires too. Counseling is good, as always, but I suspect (though certainly do not hope) that you may be well-served to be prepared for a change in the relationship dynamic. As many people have already suggested, maybe you just want a roommate to do stuff for you. If so, and he's cool with that, go for it. But get a divorce lawyer just in case.

Last edited by Eternaldarkness; 08-12-2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Forgot some stuff
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:00 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I can't imagine why people get stuck in "either or" scenarios -when it's not either or.

I don't always want sex when one of my partners does.
Sometimes, because I don't want to-I don't do it.
Sometimes, even though I don't want to-I do it anyway because I love them and it is fulfilling to me to be able to do things for them.

The problem is when anyone gets stuck in ONE or the OTHER.

But-it's a common scenario that sex is part of a romantic relationship and if any of my partners told me it was not going to happen period-I would walk.
If they told me that they needed to halt sex for a period of time-that would be perfectly reasonable. I have done so-and I would respect their need to.
But if sex is off the table period-I am not dating them.
We could be coparents.
We could be roommates.
We could be friends.

But if we aren't going to be lovers-I'm not going to be their... lover.

Something I have found is very helpful when I am dealing with a temporary situation or emotion is to let my partners know-I need to back off for x amount of time. Can we revisit the topic on x date.

If you need a break from sex because you had unhealthy boundaries. Then set a timeframe for him-so he knows what to expect.

"I need to work on appropriate boundaries. Because I was having sex with you for all of the wrong (unhealthy) reasons. After some consideration of the situation and what it is going to take for me to relearn these behaviors, I am thinking that 3 months will give me a good start. I need to table the topic of sex with anyone for 3 months and then at that time start reinstating it into our lives in a more healthy manner? (with specific examples of what that means)

Be sure to define what you mean by sex. Everyone has different understandings of what is or is not included.
Be sure to define set behaviors to be learned.
Set behaviors to start putting in place and behaviors to stop.

Teamwork..
Followed up by
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  #27  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:30 AM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I can't imagine why people get stuck in "either or" scenarios -when it's not either or.

I don't always want sex when one of my partners does.
Sometimes, because I don't want to-I don't do it.
Sometimes, even though I don't want to-I do it anyway because I love them and it is fulfilling to me to be able to do things for them.

The problem is when anyone gets stuck in ONE or the OTHER.

But-it's a common scenario that sex is part of a romantic relationship and if any of my partners told me it was not going to happen period-I would walk.
If they told me that they needed to halt sex for a period of time-that would be perfectly reasonable. I have done so-and I would respect their need to.
But if sex is off the table period-I am not dating them.
We could be coparents.
We could be roommates.
We could be friends.

But if we aren't going to be lovers-I'm not going to be their... lover.

Something I have found is very helpful when I am dealing with a temporary situation or emotion is to let my partners know-I need to back off for x amount of time. Can we revisit the topic on x date.

If you need a break from sex because you had unhealthy boundaries. Then set a timeframe for him-so he knows what to expect.

"I need to work on appropriate boundaries. Because I was having sex with you for all of the wrong (unhealthy) reasons. After some consideration of the situation and what it is going to take for me to relearn these behaviors, I am thinking that 3 months will give me a good start. I need to table the topic of sex with anyone for 3 months and then at that time start reinstating it into our lives in a more healthy manner? (with specific examples of what that means)

Be sure to define what you mean by sex. Everyone has different understandings of what is or is not included.
Be sure to define set behaviors to be learned.
Set behaviors to start putting in place and behaviors to stop.

Teamwork..
Followed up by
Thank you, yes, my taking sex off the table was TEMPORARY. It was not, and never was, "I am done having sex with you". I needed some perspective, and to take a step back. Yes, I was angry about how things were happening, about his expectations for sexual contact, and we could have communicated better about it.

For the record, we did have sex a week ago. Because I wanted to. We will again, when I want to. If he asks, and I am open to it, it will happen. It is not a done deal.

True, I should have put a time limit on it, but I did not know what an appropriate time frame would be. Right now our arrangement is that he will not put pressure on me and we will just be open to what happens naturally. Which is how it should be anyway, in my opinion...
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Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming... ~ Dori


Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:44 AM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternaldarkness View Post

It's true that you shouldn't have to 'pacify' him. But not only do you not have to, you don't want and aren't willing to do it anyway out of love. That's three strikes right there. In relationships, we should sometimes do things we don't want to to make a partner happy. That, too, is part of a healthy relationship (i know others will disagree).


He feels superfluous in your life because he is. The connection, the foundation upon which your relationship existed is crumbling and he's scrambling to fix it before the whole thing comes down because he loves you. The other guy is everything he is, and better (you said your BF did a lot of the same things he does; that hurts).

It seems like your personal limits are quite a bit more conservative than his actual desires too. Counseling is good, as always, but I suspect (though certainly do not hope) that you may be well-served to be prepared for a change in the relationship dynamic. As many people have already suggested, maybe you just want a roommate to do stuff for you. If so, and he's cool with that, go for it. But get a divorce lawyer just in case.
Actually, I HAVE been pacifying him, since the beginning of the year. Every day. I have been listening to him, cuddling him, talking with him at great length about his experiences, his feelings, and what he thinks he needs. I have held him while he cried, listened and loved him. If I didnt love him, and didnt want to make it work, I would have walked away LONG AGO... The only thing was that the level of physical contact was too much for me, it was making me uncomfortable, and we needed to change that dynamic so I was not feeling "used".

He is not superfluous, in any way! He has been a rock for me in many ways, I am a midwife today because of him, because of his support, his love, and his belief in me. I am completely grateful, and love him so very much for the sacrifices he has made in his life so that I can do this work. It is not easy for us, and he has been wonderful throughout all of that.

As far as my BF being "better", well, sure, there are things that he does better, and understands better. He is not insecure in the same way, but he has his own. He has a thicker skin, can handle more emotional content, and he already knows he can share me. He has been doing it since we were 13 years old. But, TB understands me spiritually (I am Wiccan, hubby is Wiccan friendly. BF knows about it, but still is learning about it. BF is not as "spiritual" as TB is, and doesnt really "get me" on that level..)

I do not want a roommate situation. I do want a husband and a marriage and all that entails. I want a sexual relationship that feels healthy to me, as well as meeting his needs. I am well aware that there may be a change in our relationship dynamic. I am prepared for either choice, and I am strong enough to walk either path. But, yes, HE needs to decide whether he can live with a poly partner. He has had 18 years to figure it out, and it's time for him to face the truth of who I am, and who he is as well.

I hope that clarifies some of those points.
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Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming... ~ Dori


Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...
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  #29  
Old 08-13-2013, 03:45 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I would feel shitty, granted. It is part of why I am doing my best to be flexible with him, and give him the chance to integrate the information.
What exactly does flexible mean in this.

Doesn't integrate mean accept the new reality.

Early in the tread you talked about the reasons you both want to stay together ...responsibilities, family, etc ...it wasnt til this last post you talked about love.
Have you discussed familial love verses passionate love. Loving someone vs..being in love.

You mentioned your kids ...how old are they and what do they know....and or what do you plan to tell them?

I think you made a good decision on going to therapy...I wish you both luck in that process.

Last edited by dingedheart; 08-13-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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  #30  
Old 08-13-2013, 06:27 PM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
What exactly does flexible mean in this.

Doesn't integrate mean accept the new reality.
Yes, I suppose it does. He has always known I was poly. We have gone to poly weekends for years. I have met people online, and met them in person. Not much came of it though. I have had some small, insignificant (onenight) experiences with women, have only pursued dating women in the past because I always knew having a relationship with another man would be difficult for him. He is very threatened by it.

This relationship took me by surprise. But it is a "gamechanger" for me. I will not give it up. I cannot give it up. BF and I are supposed to be together. That is not even a question. TB is also clear on that point, he has never asked me to give him up, does not want me to. He just needs to figure out how to not fall apart...

My flexibility? I guess that means I continue to stay and try, to listen, to give TB time to work this out. I am not going out and just doing what I want (dating BF as much as I want, having a sexual relationship, making plans for the future for us to be together, etc). However, I will also not walk away from someone who needs me just as much as he does, and someone I need in my life. No, I will not choose between them, And I dont have to. HE can choose if he feels he needs to though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Early in the tread you talked about the reasons you both want to stay together ...responsibilities, family, etc ...it wasnt til this last post you talked about love.
Have you discussed familial love verses passionate love. Loving someone vs..being in love.
Yes, we have. I have tried to explain that (for ME), my love for him is different, more comfortable because we have been together for so long. We have history, years of living and loving together, children and shared experiences. My feelings for BF are more NRE right now, which is normal and understandable. This is hard for him to hear, because he wants me to feel the same way for him, he wants to have NRE with me again. I dont know how to make that happen, or IF it can happen. I can only love how I love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
You mentioned your kids ...how old are they and what do they know....and or what do you plan to tell them?
Kids are 16, 6, and 2. All girls. The 2yo is often with me when BF and I get together for lunch or hanging at the playground. She knows him well and is comfortable with him. But she is just 2. The others, they know nothing, except the 16yo is bright and intuitive and probably knows more than she lets on. We have chosen to not talk with them yet for many reasons, including not wanting them to know how much Dad is struggling right now. Im not sure he could sit through that conversation without his heart being all over his sleeve.
Our 6yo has a big mouth If anything I would probably just emphasize that BF is my best friend and we care about each other. The older one I would always answer any question she has honestly. I believe in giving an honest answer when asked directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I think you made a good decision on going to therapy...I wish you both luck in that process.
Thank you. I believe we have too. I am hoping that having a neutral third party will help him work through the emotions he is feeling and get to the root of the matter, whatever that is for him. And that we can move forward in a positive and loving way for all.
__________________
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming... ~ Dori


Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...

Last edited by nycindie; 08-14-2013 at 02:26 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting of quotes
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