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  #21  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:55 AM
NowIKnow NowIKnow is offline
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...and I have never been in love with more than one person at a time in my life.
Look, I'm new to all this myself but isn't polyamory defined as multiple loves?

Myself, I've always been conflicted because I've been in love with more than one person at a time although very rarely was sex even involved.

Don't mean this as an insult but perhaps it's the "Swinger" lifestyle that your looking for?

Again, I'm not trying to be insulting, just stated my thoughts.
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:30 AM
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Don't mean this as an insult but perhaps it's the "Swinger" lifestyle that your looking for?
LOL- yes- suggesting someone is a swinger is frowned upon in poly circles. I identify as poly in some circles AND as a swinger in other circles. I actually have more relationships with people who identify as swingers. The interesting thing about labels is that poly people are supposed to be so ethical etc. etc. And swingers are supposed to be hedonistic and shallow. I have actually experienced the opposite in my life. The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun......and the list goes on! Life is funny, people are interesting and labels are misleading.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:29 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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The interesting thing about labels is that poly people are supposed to be so ethical etc. etc. And swingers are supposed to be hedonistic and shallow. I have actually experienced the opposite in my life. The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun......and the list goes on! Life is funny, people are interesting and labels are misleading.
I don't "identify" either way in any circles, but I, too have observed/experienced the same thing(s) you just described.
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2013, 07:14 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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She knows that the reason is because she is spending all of her time at work, with a lover, or whatever. My telling her that sounds like I'm trying to correct her behavior so my goal is to not say that kind of stuff.
You write such interesting stuff, Marcus. I've been thinking about this for a while. My take on this is a little different - I think?

I reckon that very often the things that we think other people know about our requests are not always what they know. So - I would be hesitant about assuming that anybody else in my life would understand the emotions behind a request I might make about spending time with them. I'd rather say what is going on for me than assume that the other person knows.

This is a habit from my work - I work in IT doing programming and systems analysis. We try our best to avoid assuming that anybody we work with understands things that haven't been explicitly said - things tend to go wrong wherever assumptions have been made. It seems that when things are left unsaid, everybody has a slightly different take on them.

I very much agree with not wanting to correct somebody else's behaviour - we don't own our friends and partners and if they want to do other things that is absolutely up to them.

For me, it's important to say if their behaviour is something I am struggling with and more important if it's something that I'm not willing to deal with in a romantic relationship. Otherwise it's entirely possible that they could go on through their life, doing their thing, thinking everything is going well until I'd reached the point where I'd had enough and suggested just being friends. Shifting relationships like that is fine with me but sometimes its something that everybody involved would prefer to avoid and a bit of clear communication can be helpful.

IP
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:20 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default it sounds like the standard new relationship

problems. All any of us can say is what helps make the situation easier and what makes it worse, from our personal standpoint. I am sure she is aware that she isn't spending as much time with you, and hopefully you can find a way to talk to her about it without her getting defensive.

Because evidently she doesn't understand that you are not just being whiney and that you really aren't OK with it, and you don't need our permission to give you the green light to NOT be OK things the way they are.

Some people actually react worse when they know that they've been a bit neglectful, it seems like it should be different, but it happens, usually because they're caught off guard. When react inappropriately, or harshly when a friend comes to me with their concerns, I think it's important to make sure I go back and let them know that I realize I was wrong.

That really makes a big difference

I know I would feel a lot less frustrated and confused if I were in your situation and she called to apologize upon realizing that she wasn't being very considerate. Sometimes just a few acknowledgments make a world of difference, and then suddenly you might be a whole lot more understanding.

It's really the only way to stop the slow build up of resentment, which happens quick when stuff like this happens, especially when every time you attempt to voice your concerns you get snapped at. I am not saying that it's not completely her fault and there is nothing your could have done to change the way you approach her, but whatever it takes so that you both start moving in the direction of being more understanding, you need to do it.

Bitterness is not good

Because if it gets to the point where you tried broaching the subject as gently as possible and she still doesn't hear you, then you have to decide if you are going to be patient enough to allow her to tap dance on your heart just a little. Some people can take it, but new relationship energy didn't get it's own acronym for nothing, it ruins many relationships.

Just be careful you don't turn into the people that hate each other because you stay together when she honestly sees nothing wrong with her behavior and you honestly feel neglected, because that isn't the way people treat each other when they care about each other's well being.

Hopefully she doesn't expect you to just deal with it. Because in the same manner that you wouldn't want someone to spend time with you unless they really wanted to, I don't think anybody wants to be treating partners in ways they are not OK with.

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 08-07-2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason: typos
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:26 PM
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The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun
This hasn't been my experience. My experience has been that the rare people or group who are emotionally responsible and are not control freaks tend to have a better shot at fulfilling relationships. Everyone else has lots of drama and infighting because the people involved are navigating their power dynamics and trying to figure out how to do anything but deal with their own emotional baggage.

Externalizing personal responsibility isn't related to poly any more than it is to swinging; both camps excel at it.

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Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility
I'd rather say what is going on for me than assume that the other person knows... a bit of clear communication can be helpful.
I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, IP. I suppose my distinction would be that while I do agree that clear communication is a boon in any healthy relationship, I would add the caveat that prior to the communication being initiated, one should be certain that the message they are intending to send is the same as the one they are sending.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:29 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Perhaps the people who call themselves "swingers" are simply better at hiding their drama, for all i know. I am simply relaying my empirical observations of two different loosely-defined yet circumscribed sets of human subjects. This has very little to do with making statements about "how things are" or "how things should be", and is not based on the scientific method.
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  #28  
Old 08-08-2013, 02:41 AM
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Perhaps the people who call themselves "swingers" are simply better at hiding their drama, for all i know. I am simply relaying my empirical observations of two different loosely-defined yet circumscribed sets of human subjects. This has very little to do with making statements about "how things are" or "how things should be", and is not based on the scientific method.
No scientific method here either! But after being involved with a person or couple for a certain period of time, the drama is going to come out - if there is going to be any. In theory, swingers don't have to deal with drama as much because they aren't as focused on the relationship part of things because they are mainly focused on the sexual pleasure of things. That could actually be why they don't seem to have as much drama. No one is hyper focused on the relationship part, so the relationships are able to evolve naturally and organically.
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2013, 06:53 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, IP. I suppose my distinction would be that while I do agree that clear communication is a boon in any healthy relationship, I would add the caveat that prior to the communication being initiated, one should be certain that the message they are intending to send is the same as the one they are sending.
I wonder if that is the difficulty with communication? I sometimes wonder if the best we can do is to be clear in our own minds about the message that we want to send?

The recipient of our message won't necessarily understand it the way we intend it anyway - they will understand what we say through the filters of their own experiences.

My SO and I recently had a discussion about this which started on a car journey like this:

SO: Are you hungry?
IP: No. I ate lunch quite late because I knew we'd be travelling. Are you hungry?
SO: Yes. I could do with some food soon.

At the time, we were driving on a motorway and I knew from past discussions that my SO hates stopping at motorway service stations - I'd had lunch very late specifically so that I wouldn't need to stop and force him to go to one. I assumed that his conversation was an indication that we should stop as soon as possible after we'd gotten off the motorway and that's exactly what we did.

However, from my SO's point of view, the conversation was a direct request from him that we stop for food at one of the service stations on the motorway. He was very hungry and willing to put up with being in a service station if it meant he could eat.

When he asked me why I didn't stop, I pointed out that he hadn't actually asked me to stop. He felt very strongly that he had asked and that I should have known.

Interestingly, I know that my SO finds it hard to make direct requests of people because he doesn't like to be controlling. But I find that sort of communication incredibly controlling. Unless there is a reason not to be direct (like a language barrier), I find it preferable to know what it is that people actually want from me. I may or may not be able to or willing to do what it is that they want but I'd much rather know and I'd rather know if it is going to upset them if I don't do what they want.

My preference, of course, comes from experience. I come from a family of incredibly direct, blunt communicators so I've grown up being comfortable with people telling me what they think, what they want from me and when they are upset with me. And I've compounded that by working in I.T. where being clear and direct about everything is a necessary part of the job. Then I've spend the last 12 or so years in my job working directly with our most difficult, demanding customer - people don't like them as a customer because they tend to be very direct, sometimes rude and they get upset if they don't get what they want.

The whole communication thing is interesting for me. My SO and I are still learning and adapting to each other's preferences. Not surprisingly - we have been practicing and honing and becoming comfortable with styles that are different to each other for far longer than we have been together. So there is much more to uncover and discuss and adapt to.

IP
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2013, 12:57 PM
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She knows that the reason is because she is spending all of her time at work, with a lover, or whatever. My telling her that sounds like I'm trying to correct her behavior so my goal is to not say that kind of stuff.
To be clear, what I was talking about is asking for exactly what I want - explicitly. What I am *not* in favor of is clouding this precise communication with stuff that can be interpreted as emotional bullying (and I think that's exactly what it is).

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Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
SO: Are you hungry?
IP: No. I ate lunch quite late because I knew we'd be travelling. Are you hungry?
SO: Yes. I could do with some food soon.
This is just murky communication (on both sides). I'm glad you guys are working on that, otherwise it sounds like that would just keep giving you headaches.

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I may or may not be able to or willing to do what it is that they want but I'd much rather know and I'd rather know if it is going to upset them if I don't do what they want.
UGH! I've had that argument before. It's that kind of drama that I don't want in my life; someone getting pissy because I didn't capitulate to their demand (if "no" is not an acceptable answer, it is a demand).
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