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  #11  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:59 AM
NowIKnow NowIKnow is offline
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Originally Posted by Petunia View Post
When you think of someone special in your life as "my husband", "my boyfriend", "my wife", "my girlfriend", "my lover", (insert appropriate label) does it elicit feelings of possessiveness, as in "s/he's mine," or connectivity, as in this person is someone of value in my life and I am connected to them in this special way?

If you feel possessiveness due to these labels, do you chose to use other terms that carry less meaning to change your perspective? Such as, "the wo/man that I'm married to" or "the person I'm dating"?

I recently had someone tell me I should ponder this as he felt I was using the term "my husband" possessively in my thinking which made me feel bad and has led to this examination.
In "my opinion"(possessive, it belongs to me) it should really not matter. How else are you going to refer to a friend, dare I say..."of yours'? No other way than to say "my friend". Sure it's possessive but should in no way connote ownership.

It all depends on the inflection also. For example:

I didn't say he stole the money.

I wasn't the one that said he stole the money.

I didn't say he stole the money.

I didn't say he was the one that stole the money but I did say someone else stole the money.

I didn't say he stole the money.

I didn't say he stole the money but I did say he stole something.

So I guess it all depends on what your inflection was when you were talking. If you said something to such as, "I want eveyone to know that is my husband," versus "I want everyone to know that is my husband," with the latter showing endearment, yes you may be using the word "my" possessively.
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  #12  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:13 AM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Originally Posted by NowIKnow View Post
In "my opinion"(possessive, it belongs to me) it should really not matter. How else are you going to refer to a friend, dare I say..."of yours'? No other way than to say "my friend". Sure it's possessive but should in no way connote ownership.
Two ways around it off the top of my head (which, indeed, is mine ) :

"XYZ and I are friends/partners/whatevs, and he/she/they..."
"XYZ, who is friends/in a partrnership/whatevs with me,..."

Takes a bit longer, sure. For me, the few extra words are well worth avoiding the possessive/ownership connotation, though.
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  #13  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:42 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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I usually refer to the people important to me by their name rather than by their relationship to me. Especially if I am talking to somebody who knows them or to whom I often speak about them.

If the relationship is important to the conversation then I will say 'my' - my sister, my partner, my mum, my brother, my friend, my nephew. I don't think it's particularly possessive - my mum has 2 other children (and finds more to bring into the family sometimes), my brother has another sister (and also often a girlfriend), my nephews have another aunt.

It is very rare for any of my friends or family to ask if a new person is a boyfriend. They don't ask about boyfriends because I spent the best part of a decade single and very happy and very vocal about how being single was part of what was making me happy.

The lack of labels did cause my SO a problem for the first 18 or so months of our relationship. I couldn't bear to be called somebody's partner or girlfriend so we referred to each other as friends - because we are. Regularly my SO would be told off by his friends who were upset that he was treating me badly when he called me a friend.

They assumed that he was doing this as a way of keeping the relationship casual and that I would much prefer to be called girlfriend or partner. He was regularly being told he was being horrible to me or being an idiot because he was treating me badly and I might stop hanging around with him. Eventually, I got over some of my problems with romantic relationships and now I can cope if he calls me his partner. I can call him my partner too if it's important to the conversation (still prefer to avoid saying it, though).

IP
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  #14  
Old 08-10-2013, 03:29 AM
london london is offline
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The people I associate with wouldn't care if I thought I owned them because they know I don't and couldn't. This leaves me no reason to avoid such terminology. I have no issue with the commitment, obligation or expectations that come with labels so I have no reason to feel pressured or restricted by them. Being obliged to do something doesn't invalidate the fact that I would want to be beneficial to that person in that way. I know for lots of people, once they are expected to do something for someone, they don't want to do it.
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  #15  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default The problem is the misleading grammatical label

not the word "My" before a "noun"

I don't give that particular grammatical label any thought because there are so many grammar "rules" that have been adopted, fabricated on the fly for the sole purpose of maintaining an abusive level of control over others. The English Language, and the two forms of it that grammar that grammar attempts to constrict, namely written and spoken -- are for the most part completely unrelated to the form of the English Language known as conscious thought. Because I view the majority of grammar as either worthless, or a device used to facilitate abusive control, I don't allow it in my life unless I am programming.

I firmly believe everything above and beyond the most basic rules -- and only for the purpose of standards, and only because standards main purpose and reason to exist is only to lend itself the labors so that people may understand -- and everything that a native speaker is taught about the mechanics would benefit natives speakers if they never learned as by far the most beneficial knowledge of grammar is to know it intuitively. I firmly believe that children would all have a much easier time with their entire academic career if school was postponed two more years and children were much more practiced and stronger knowledge of core grammar in spoken form, long before they can even write or recite the alphabet. As if it the spoken word form that has by far the greatest impact on the form of English known as conscious thought, but this is already too far off track so I won't rail against pendants and all the damage they inadvertently do to all users of the English language, especially the written form.

as the label "possessive" give to the first person word "My" is roughly about the point where anything further interference and restriction grammar imposes of the written word is deleterious.

when I say "my friend" or "my *anything*" which I did not create, purchase (and in significant possessions having an allodial title) the term "my" is only to convey the relation to the noun in the context I am speaking of it, so the only technical "possession" "My" has is of the word, AKA only in communication, transmission, receipt, etc..., and NOT and possession of the noun as it exists in the State of Isreal

So when you said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia
I recently had someone tell me I should ponder this as he felt I was using the term "my husband" possessively in my thinking which made me feel bad and has led to this examination.
I would tell him (or the female influenced by him), I am his only wife, he is not "our" husband, or if he does another SO whom he is equally committed to then perhaps " Our Husband " would be more appropriate

otherwise I don't like it when non-monogamists become fixated on assigning other people's relationships to mean ownership. As it comes off as a petty way to deal with their insercurities about non-monogamy or polyamory, and feels to me like they are tryng to convince themselves they are justified in their actions.

One does not need to justify non-monogamy, as there is absolutely nothing wrong when all parties involved are fully informed and aware and desire it.

Nobody has any right to ownership over anybody, unless it is the will of they are "owned" and they are fully knowledgeable adults who explicitly consent to being owned.

I don't like it one form of love intentionally belittles another way to love in odere to feel justified in their own way of loving

I am well aware of the not so distant past when idiot men took it upon themselves to frame their minds that they had ownership of their wives and girlfriends, and it does not matter how much a person thinks he owns another, the only thing it does if forfeit significant ownership of his self. And if he is dumb enough to do so ten times, the whole ten tenths of his own, which he was previously in charge of, is lost , and likely forever.
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2013, 06:15 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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I would say it depends.... We all grew up in the same mono dominant society, and many of those terms are associated with mono mindsets. I find that if using a term seems to trigger a default mindset / emotional reaction, then I may try to use other terminology for my own sense of clarification.

Using the term my husband *could* be utilized as a form of ownership, but it also describes a legally recognized relationship. I would say only you can determine which you mean.

I, myself, have often wished to invent new words to more accurately describe poly. I tend to look at all relationships as "one individual who loves another individual (or more than one)" regardless of format - unless one is defining her / his self identity on the relationship. But that's all rather arduous to say.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2013, 04:55 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia View Post
When you think of someone special in your life as "my husband", "my boyfriend", "my wife", "my girlfriend", "my lover", (insert appropriate label) does it elicit feelings of possessiveness, as in "s/he's mine," or connectivity, as in this person is someone of value in my life and I am connected to them in this special way?

If you feel possessiveness due to these labels, do you chose to use other terms that carry less meaning to change your perspective? Such as, "the wo/man that I'm married to" or "the person I'm dating"?

I recently had someone tell me I should ponder this as he felt I was using the term "my husband" possessively in my thinking which made me feel bad and has led to this examination.
I use the term "my husband" because it's convention, and "the man to whom I'm married" is 3 times as many words and therefore inefficient.

Does this someone believe that to be the case whenever anyone uses the term my so-and-so? Or are you a special case? Context is important. If you were saying something like "How could that woman have the audacity to speak to my husband?!??" then yeah that would come off sounding a little possessive. But if it was like, "my husband is the most amazing person on the planet" then Someone was likely colouring your words with their own prejudices.

I suspect that meaning elicits labels more than labels elicit meaning. i.e. Either someone feels possessive about their husband, or they don't. They're unlikely to become possessive just by virtue of using the term "my husband." Just like how Vix and her husband have chosen to change their language to reflect their feelings, rather than for example saying "well, you are my husband, so I must possess you, because that's what 'my' means."
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2013, 05:04 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneMystic View Post
Two ways around it off the top of my head (which, indeed, is mine ) :

"XYZ and I are friends/partners/whatevs, and he/she/they..."
"XYZ, who is friends/in a partrnership/whatevs with me,..."

Takes a bit longer, sure. For me, the few extra words are well worth avoiding the possessive/ownership connotation, though.
Do you actually do that, though? Man, is that ever cumbersome. I can't even begin to imagine replacing "my friend" with "this person who is friends with me" on a regular basis. Humans are lazy, and that usually means saying things the quickest way possible. That's why people constantly end sentences with prepositions. "The man to whom I'm married" is like 3 times as many words as "my husband." That's just inefficient!

As a side note, I'm pretty certain my mom would be mortified if I started referring to her as "the woman who is in a mother-daughter relationship with me." In fact, to me, that whole approach seems to actually take away from the connectedness. My husband is no longer special, he's just some guy who happens to have his name listed on the same marriage certificate as mine.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2013, 06:23 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default And there isn't anything wrong with it

as if the people who are involved in your life have a hard time hearing anyone be referred to as "my such and such" then whether or not anyone chooses to be respectful in their presence is up to them.

And it depends on the situation as I see labels which signify your relationship in regards to the person (such as saying "My husband") as a completely different scenario than using the term "My so and so" or "My + (person's first name)"

but again, it depends how life was experienced by those people who are involved in your life, and what the terms symbolize or the meaning they carry for you and your loved ones in your life together. If the people in your life, live a life where those terms have deeper meaning, then it may be necessary for you all to be more conscious of specific words than others, especially in the words used among those involved in BDSM, which as others have noted it would very appropriate to use specific words to denote specific meaning, but to expect it from an outsider or else consider said outsider disrespectful when you they are not of the same life lived is a foolish way to understand the world and the people in it. As it will be seen as abusive

Which is why I do not have very much respect for sticklers or grammar, as so little of it is is used as the standard for clarity which was the purpose behind it as it is used today. Today it is used in ways that dishonored language, as language serves the purpose to communicate so that others besides yourself, can understand

So when grammar is enforced for reasons other than written law, as a framework to distinguish what is and what is not within the bounds of said written rules without addressing each and every possible act, when grammar serves the purpose that places rules and restrictions where one meaning is more easily understood and more precise, it is deleterious and creates problems within the form of language is was meant to solve.

there is nothing wrong with having your own way of communicating, no matter what rules you choose to abide by, so long as they are not used in abusive ways, as anytime preference is enforced over those who don't prefer it, my experience is the truth in the reason is not straightly admitted, and when it is, it is rarely a problem
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2013, 07:46 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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I don't like possessiveness in general but I think being too mindful of it in speech could take away from the connection to people. I am a lot more mindful of using hierarchal terms and avoiding using them in that way.
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