hypocrisy

[quila]

Originally Posted by rubyfish

It kind of reminds me of some of the profiles I've read on okcupid for women that say they are bisexual, but aren't interested in dating or even hearing from cis-gendered straight men. Okay, whatever floats their boat. And then when you read deeper or talk to them, they also have no interest in women who date cis-gendered straight men. I don't quite understand, but I think it's a little like the person you replied to.

I always list myself as bisexual on dating sites, but I've already got one guy in my life and that's plenty! It would be very misleading for me to list myself as a lesbian, even if I'm only looking for women. Most of those sites make you list what gender you're seeking, so you can be a "married, bisexual, polyamorous woman seeking women." As long as they're not posting as "bisexual woman seeking either" then they aren't being misleading.

While I can see how it would be frustrating for you to keep stumbling on these women, I don't think there's anything wrong with only wanting to date women who are lesbians. I agree that it doesn't make logical sense, but I think that lesbians and bisexual women have very different life experiences, and I can understand why a woman would want to be with someone who has the lesbian perspective. It does, however, put them in a very narrow dating pool, since a lot of lesbians refuse to date bisexual women.

[quila]

Got a response:

whoa u asked alot of questions, I totally wont be stringing anyone along.......good luck on finding someone to fall in love with? Thats not very cool of you. Ppl get hurt that way, if you especially have no intentions of leaving your husband for a woman, then I'm not interested. I'm gay and I'm looking for a monagmous relationship, not someone to just fuk around with when its convient for them.........
thanks for the reply tho!

Even if she's found that her current relationship is going nowhere, am I wrong to believe that she's totally stringing her partner along by posting personal ads behind her partner's back? Even if they both know it's going nowhere, to me that doesn't justify the sneaking. Whenever I've been unhappy in a relationship, or felt it was going no where, I've ended it, even if I still had some feelings for the person. It's hard enough to meet people without wasting your Friday nights with someone you don't want to be with.

Second point, "if you especially have no intentions of leaving your husband for a woman" = "so I'll date married women, but only if they plan on leaving their husbands" ? ... well no wonder she keeps getting her heart broken by married women! She'd dated a married woman who left her husband to be with her, but who eventually went back to her husband. I'm wondering now how much of that was the girlfriend deciding on her own to leave the husband, vs being prompted by the woman from the ad? It may even be that the other woman was really poly but didn't know that it was allowed to be with both, and thought the only way to be with a woman was to leave her husband, but then still loved her husband and went back. The ad poster mentioned that she'd since seen this woman out with yet another woman, making me think this was the case... Hm, I wonder if she could send this woman my e-mail address? :P

So now I'm asking some advice: From an education perspective, do you ever just write someone off as a lost cause? Is it worth my time trying to explain that I'm not planning on hurting anybody and that I have no intention of forming a relationship with someone who believes I'll eventually leave my husband for them? Are some people just incapable of understanding the concept of poly?

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by quila

From an education perspective, do you ever just write someone off as a lost cause?

Well, she has said that she is looking for a woman to be monogamous with, therefore that's not going to be you.

I believe that it is neither your duty nor you right to "educate" her. She has made her life's choices, and is, presumably living by those choices, and living whatever consequences there are for those. If she is not requesting your help, then I don't feel you should try to.

Or is it worth my time trying to explain that I'm not planning on hurting anybody and that I have no intention of forming a relationship with someone who believes they'll be the only person in my life, or that if they just hold out, things with my husband will eventually fall apart and then they can have me all to themselves.

She has pretty much already said that he relationship style and yours are not compatible. She hasn't expressed an interest in learning more about your style. So why do you feel you have to explain your choices to her? OK, so she believes that you are wrong in your choices. Fair enough. Respect hers and if she can't respect yours, then too bad.

Are some people just incapable of understanding the concept of poly?

Maybe - there are some who can't understand the concept of monogamy, either.

I think live and let live, would be my advice - the two of you don't sound very compatible from what you each expect out of a relationship - let it go and move on.

[NeonKaos]

Originally Posted by quila

So now I'm asking some advice: From an education perspective, do you ever just write someone off as a lost cause? Is it worth my time trying to explain that I'm not planning on hurting anybody and that I have no intention of forming a relationship with someone who believes I'll eventually leave my husband for them? Are some people just incapable of understanding the concept of poly?

What do you care? You want to date this person? This is a stranger on a dating site who responded to your ad JUST to tell you that you suck. Why would you want to pursue this? I wouldn't have even replied to her in the first place.

It's as though I'd told someone that 2/3 of my life revolves around cats and they answered with "I can't stand cats, I'm allergic to them, and would never want to be involved with someone who is a cat-person." Am I going to pursue that and try to get that person to understand that I'm a really wonderful person and what my reasons are for having cats, when it says in my profile that I'm seeking someone who also loves cats?

Nooo I'm hitting the "delete" button and waiting for someone else to come along.

The only thing I can think of is that she struck some kind of a nerve in you and that you feel compelled to prove something to her - a STRANGER. If she's so "scared of you already" then she shouldn't have responded to you. If you keep writing back, she'll prob'ly say she's being "stalked by a confused married bi-woman".

Pfeh.

[quila]

Originally Posted by YGirl

What do you care? You want to date this person? This is a stranger on a dating site who responded to your ad JUST to tell you that you suck. Why would you want to pursue this? I wouldn't have even replied to her in the first place.

Well I replied to HER ad, and I don't actually care about her specifically, I've already written her off as a potential mate since she's obviously not poly-minded. It's not like she said "I have poly friends and I think they're full of shit." She's never heard of poly, and her only experience with non-monogamy is cheaters.

I just wonder how we're ever going to get our lifestyle out in the open if we don't explain things to one person at a time. Mono people have no interest in reading our articles or websites to try and see things from our side, so that's obviously not the way to get the word out.

A lot of people have been hurt by being cheated on, or by falling in love with someone that was cheating, and so this is all they know about non-monogamy. They don't understand that there's a healthy, happy way to do it.

The only way to change the world's preconceptions is one person at a time...

Homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted by mainstream society, even though there are still a lot of biggots. But at the very least, EVERYONE has heard of it. You can't say that about poly. So we're not even near the stage of trying to get people to think it's "ok." They've heard the polygamous model where some Christian man is the head of a household of several wives that just have to do what he says because he's the boss. Their feelings and sexual desires are not important. And if I still thought that's what polyamory was, I would want NO PART of it.

[LovingRadiance]

I explain it-but generally not using myself as an example.
I give them the generally held definition and a link or two (like www.lovemore.com mentioning the online magazine or www.xeromag.com mentioning the articles under polyamory)
If I think that they are REALLY that "unaware" I will actually go to the articles themselves and supply the specific links to the pertinent articles instead of leaving them to open the first page of xeromag and freaking out because the words bdsm, poly and only god knows what else that might freak them out are written there.
I figure knowledge is better than ignorance, even if they remain a jerk....

[NeonKaos]

I see. I didn't realize that you replied to her ad first. I thought you put out an ad and she replied to you just to say "I'm scared of you" and that seemed pathological to me. Thank you for clearing that up.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by YGirl

The only thing I can think of is that she struck some kind of a nerve in you and that you feel compelled to prove something to her - a STRANGER.

I'm not thinking so........

Originally Posted by Quilla

The only way to change the world's preconceptions is one person at a time...

I think Quilla and I are much on the same page with this - to a degree at least.
I don't know as the objective is to 'change' anyone as much as it is simply to tear down a wall of ignorance and try to engage their brain & thought process. Before moving on.
From there - things will take the course that they will. A contribution if you will - without expectations. Or illusions.

[redpepper]

Originally Posted by quila

While I can see how it would be frustrating for you to keep stumbling on these women, I don't think there's anything wrong with only wanting to date women who are lesbians. I agree that it doesn't make logical sense, but I think that lesbians and bisexual women have very different life experiences, and I can understand why a woman would want to be with someone who has the lesbian perspective. It does, however, put them in a very narrow dating pool, since a lot of lesbians refuse to date bisexual women.

I prefer to date lesbian women because I love their culture. I was Lesbian identified for 10 years and miss it sometimes. Especially when I speak to someone who used to be in my community and I don't receive the same welcome and knowing look that I used to get.

I have not found any Lesbian that wants to date me AT ALL. But then I'm not surprised. I hated the whole idea of a penis back in the day, let alone would accept sleeping with a woman that had one in her life and I have up to THREE! There is just no way I am going to find a Lesbian lover... full stop, end of story. I've given up.

Originally Posted by quila

Got a response:



Even if she's found that her current relationship is going nowhere, am I wrong to believe that she's totally stringing her partner along by posting personal ads behind her partner's back? Even if they both know it's going nowhere, to me that doesn't justify the sneaking. Whenever I've been unhappy in a relationship, or felt it was going no where, I've ended it, even if I still had some feelings for the person. It's hard enough to meet people without wasting your Friday nights with someone you don't want to be with.

Second point, "if you especially have no intentions of leaving your husband for a woman" = "so I'll date married women, but only if they plan on leaving their husbands" ? ... well no wonder she keeps getting her heart broken by married women! She'd dated a married woman who left her husband to be with her, but who eventually went back to her husband. I'm wondering now how much of that was the girlfriend deciding on her own to leave the husband, vs being prompted by the woman from the ad? It may even be that the other woman was really poly but didn't know that it was allowed to be with both, and thought the only way to be with a woman was to leave her husband, but then still loved her husband and went back. The ad poster mentioned that she'd since seen this woman out with yet another woman, making me think this was the case... Hm, I wonder if she could send this woman my e-mail address? :P

So now I'm asking some advice: From an education perspective, do you ever just write someone off as a lost cause? Is it worth my time trying to explain that I'm not planning on hurting anybody and that I have no intention of forming a relationship with someone who believes I'll eventually leave my husband for them? Are some people just incapable of understanding the concept of poly?

Damn ya I would reply. This woman is in a non-monogamous relationship whether she likes it or not! She herself has chosen that. She is quite willing to keep her girlfriend around and look for a new one in the mean time. She is a relationship wrecker by the sounds of it. I wonder how many women she has charmed out of their marriages and then cheated on them while she finds a new woman... and then she has the audacity to judge you? You sound like you have been quite reasonable and have explained yourself... Personally I would now take the nice smile off my face an blow torch her reality with a big reality check.

I have no patience for shit like that... that kind of hypocrisy ...and have no problem pointing it out. Perhaps I would in a more kind fashion than my anger indicates here, but point it out with some radically honest observations of what I know about her.... and even say I am assuming things too.

I figure, if she keeps talking to you and replying then why the hell not?! What is there to lose? If nothing else then you may just make some movement towards change... if not then she is still right where she was. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I used to talk to guys all the time who pursued me on dating sites, showed me pictures of their cocks (like I have never seen one before, they all look the same really, why do they do that anyway? If I have an intimate relationship with that cock then that is different... I like being reminded ) and then tell me they are unhappily married and that I should be ashamed of myself wanting to be up front with my husband about another man in my life. How dare I have that, I will hurt him.

I laid into a few men many a time and whadayouknow, some even appreciated it..?! So surprising, but they said I made them think and that was intriguing... it all went back to the "so when can we fuck" thing again, so really I don't know what changed really. *sigh* maybe I was dreaming?

Anyway, go with your gut and your heart I say. you will gain your own clarity and who knows, you may make a difference.

[Thunderlizard]

I think that part of the problem is the reasonably common misconception that Poly means "sexual non-monogamy".. the misunderstanding that a lot of people have where they don't understand that it's caring, EMOTIONALLY intimate relationships that we want, not just sex. Add to that the masses of people who use Poly as a blanket excuse for non-ethical non-monogamy (Ie: "I'm Poly but my partner isn't and I don't want to hurt their feelings"), and you have misunderstanding combined with misinformation.
In the BDSM community, the problem is exacerbated by dominant personalities who "force" their "Polyamory" on their partners, using the blanket "I'm the boss, what I say goes, and I'll have as many partners as I want, but you will have only ME" attitude to excuse lack of commitment and infidelity. Unfortunately, I see that portion of the problem as being one of the biggest issues, as outsiders end up assuming that "Poly" has nothing to do with love.. it's just an excuse for bad behavior (in their eyes).

My wife has seen some of the same problems when looking for female loving companionship. Some "twue" lesbians have a dislike for bi girls as it is, you're right.... and a Polyamorous Bi (or Pansexual, which just makes them shake their heads) girl just makes them lose their minds. Add to that the confusion created when she tells people "well, yes, I might be interested. In the spirit of honesty, I would have to discuss this with my husband, though"
They wonder why she needs my "permission" to date them.. they don't understand that the "amory" part of Poly means that she doesn't want to bring someone into her life who is innately incompatible with her spouse.. she would like to at least see us get along as friends, and she cares about my feelings enough to include me in the major decisions she makes. This means that we end up mostly interacting with other bi girls, who have at least some interest in me.. that way, she knows we're going to at least try to get along, and she'll have the freedom to share time with both of us, at the same time, and truly feel the triad love.

It's definitely a long and interesting road to finding the right match.. we were lucky enough to have had Kitten in our lives, and I hope, sincerely, that you have at least as much luck.. we both (or all) know that the rewards of being patient are staggering!

Cheers!
J