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  #571  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:40 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good afternoon.

No change on the poly front. It is not a taboo topic in our home. It is just not one that is discussed in great detail. I am currently renewing a friendship with Si, but it is in the beginning stages. I have laid out my personal boundaries and made it clear that it is strictly platonic and will continue to be. So far, so good. I had lunch with her on Monday, but it was only before I checked with DH to make sure he would not be available. He was tied up with work, so it worked out. I disclosed the information, and he said nothing about it. It is filed under non-issue.

My daughter has still not said a peep about her. I am not sure what the deal is what that. It is like Si does not even exist to her. Surely she has not forgotten about her. She has not seen her cousins, grandparents, or any of her friends in London since we moved, but she asks about them all the time. My hands are tied on this front, so I am not pushing for her to be around Si or even acknowledge her. She is her father's child; stubborn and strong-willed.

Everything else is going really well. We are all loving it here and all settled in. I am grateful for the amount of time we took in deciding to relocate. If we had done this on a whim, it would not have been such an easy transition. Our son is enjoying being at a nursery. I am quite happy that he will be interacting with children his age. Naturally, I had reservations, but he is thriving and doing well. Our daughter loves her school. I could do without being there every day. Class reps meetings, parent association meetings, church services, music carnivals, parent/teacher interviews, etc. Next week is the start of book week. There is truly something every day. I need to look at the app now and see if there are any events tomorrow.

The cost of living is much lower than London, which is quite surprising. The housing market is about what and what, though. The cost of education and nurseries are slightly more costly here. Our total for their respective tuitions will be over $50k per annum. His tuition is double the cost of her education at GGS. Insane. His tuition will go down as he ages up. Hers will pretty much increase every year. The most drastic increase will happen in January 2014. The great news is that he can stay at that particular facility until he turns five, and then, he will be eligible head to prep. We also have the option to enrol him in the school's early learning centres as young as three, which would help secure him a spot in the subsequent years. Though he is only one, we were advised to secure his spot now. I would never ventured a guess that some of the admissions processes were so competitive. E.g. My daughter's school offers families the option to basically buy their way to the top of the list by securing a $3k bond. I see why it is more cost effective to have a nanny now.

I am loving it here, and I love our home. We have plenty of space because I have been feeling a bit broody, and we have decided to TTC in the future. Right now, we are focused on repairing our marriage, though. It would not be fair to our children and any future duckies to not be on solid footing and stable. We have discussed the prospect of having more children, and we are on the same page. I am delighted by this. I am thrilled about creating, carrying, and bringing new life in to the world again. I loved the feeling of my babies growing inside of me.

All in all, we are taking it one day at a time. I am still keeping DH/Si apart, so there have been no fireworks. Things have settled down, and they are taking on their new shape. I look forward to seeing how things end up.

I am off to work on dinner. My little duckies should be home within the hour, and I have missed them quite terribly today.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 07-24-2013 at 06:46 AM.
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  #572  
Old 07-24-2013, 07:48 PM
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Maybe your daughter is thinking that Si will not be very involved in your lives, and she is coping with that prospect in her own particular way? In any case, I'm glad to hear that most things are working out pretty well.
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  #573  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:17 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Gosh ....i remember in Matt's thread the idea that ripping away their second mother was going to be so devastating . " Omg think of the poor children man ( Matt ) " You wanted to fight for equal parental rights for si ...funny how things work out. Has this ever come up in therapy resently?
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  #574  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:40 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Default Calculated Candy Coated Misery? Check.

I was just thinking...I was something else a few months ago. I am looking at myself and thinking, "Damn."

Our first counsellor was the same way. "It would be detrimental for them to lose a third parent, and you have to consider their feelings." It pissed DH off. He held back when he met with the psychotherapist who implied it was going to cause our children to hate him. He considered our daughter's feelings when he continued to allow Si to be around them despite not trusting her. He has never told our daughter that she could not see Si. She has simply not asked and not even acknowledged her for it to happen. Someone asked if it was possible that either of us or any of our friends/relatives had said anything about Si in front of her that would have left a bad impression? I know I have not, and the people closest to her have never said anything. She is a parakeet and repeats everything she hears, so they know better. She is impressionable, so we do not argue in front of her or even within earshot of her.

It has not been discussed in great detail, yet. She wanted to bring our daughter in and ask a few simple questions to see if she could get to the root of the issue(s). We have a session this afternoon, and she will be there with us. I do know that she was upset about the first weekend here, when I was not there for the family day and spent the day with Si. Our therapist did not believe that is where it started, but it is where her acknowledgement of Si ended. She did ask me if it was possible that my daughter felt what DH was feeling in her own way? It is possible. I cannot dismiss it because there is no doubt her feelings were hurt when Si faded in to obscurity a few months ago. She may not have gotten completely over that. This was someone she trusted to never hurt/disappoint her, and she did that. Many times over in that span of time. It ended with her thinking there was something wrong with her. Just as she was thinking I liked Si more than her when I chose spending time with Si over time with the family a few weeks ago. As resilient as we want to believe children are, sometimes that is not the case.

I have my own theories. I do fear that I pushed Si back in to her life too soon after everything that transpired because I wanted Si back in my life. I never stopped to consider her feelings, but he did. I forgave her and pushed my child to do the same. When she asked DH if she could see Si, it was only because I virtually talked her in to it before I left for my best friend's wedding in April. Why would she not listen to me? I am her mother and of course, I would never do anything to hurt her. Mother supposedly knows best, right? Hmmph. I knew I was going to forgive her before we even made it to Bali. I also knew just what to tell DH. I omitted the parts where the calls went unanswered, texts were ignored, and she bailed on ballet recitals. Oh, I did not tell him that because I knew he would not be okay with seeing her. Every move I made was calculated. I do not believe she would have asked under normal circumstances. One could say she did it as a favour to me and to help my "case" with DH. I used my child to accomplish what was needed; the empathy card from DH. He was not going to listen to me, but I knew he would hear her out. That behaviour was very self-serving and highly inappropriate. She had a right to work out her own feelings surrounding the situation, voice them, and take some time away from Si. I see what DH means when he says I put Si and her feelings before our children and even him. So could this be a delayed emotional reaction and rebellion of sorts? Absolutely. Is she within her right? Yes, because if someone had hurt me or made me feel like something was wrong with me, I would not have expected my mum to push me to be around that person. All I can do now is respect her feelings and keep my feelings and opinions out of it.
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  #575  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:54 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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I am sure you are getting a lot of advice, and from a lot of different angles. All I can offer is what I remember from when my marriage was in a similar situation. When *I* was in a similar situation.

DH is not uncaring, he is not blase'. The big thing I learned, and it was in a book about anger and forgiveness, is that this is the beginning of the death of a relationship. He has been hurt. He was tired of hurting. So to protect himself, he pulled back. Anger, betrayal, it shifted to a disassociation. It was to survive. The problem is it goes from that to denial, to REALLY not caring. Then one day he can wake up and go, 'You know what? I stopped caring a long time ago, why am I here?' Right now, it's a scab, covering a lot of hurt. You have to poke at it, and let out all that bad feelings and deal with them. Or they will heal over and then it won't be a front anymore, it will be too late, he will have pulled back to protect himself so far, that he really doesn't care. Don't let it get there. That was my wake up call.


This, is the hardest part. Believe me I know that. I'm a freaking depressive, with bi polar, disassociative, schizotypal disorder. Just waking up is hard, this next part, was like impossible! But necessary.


FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!

On anything! So far I haven't seen any follow through and I'm pretty sure Matt hasn't either. I mean, we aren't in your life so who knows, but there's always a reason, a justification, to change things. A negotiation. Going to have more family time, EXCEPT this one time. Going to break all contact, well except for replies to this or that, but no physical contact! Going to take time off of work and JUST be home, well okay part time because I'd just be bored anyway.

I know all the reasons make sense, but the point is there is NOTHING I have seen you write here that you need to do, or will do, that you have. It always gets negotiated down. Honestly, like a drug addict. Well any sort of addict. That has to be contributing to problems with Matt and honestly why he still shows no emotion. You don't follow through on things you say you are going to do. You tell him "No no, I'm doing A. You're right, therapist is right, I just need to do it!" Then a little while later, "Welllllll, A isn't totally necessary. I'm going to do B instead. I know it's not A, but you know it's not G either! So I think it's a good compromise!" Then he just nods. Honestly, probably defeated, because he knew there would be no way you were going to follow through.

Again, I'm saying this from what I read, and knowing now that when I did the same thing I was just causing more and more damage.
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  #576  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:35 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I know what he does/does not care about. I can say with 110% without a shadow of doubt that he does not care about my ex. In all honesty, she is nothing to him. He finally said what I have known all along. "I do not give a fuck about her." His exact words, and that was the first time he has said anything negative about her.

We have dealt with the negative feelings. He still tells me what bothers him. He opens up to me. New ones were emerging every day. A few of that many things I have heard over the past five months from him:

1) You fail to hear what I am saying, and your communication needs to improve.
2) I still do not trust fully you with--my heart, our children's best interests, prioritising our marriage and family life, etc. At this point, he suggested things to do to help build the trust.
3) I still do not trust you to listen to me and really hear me out, respect my feelings, not disrespect my boundaries, not undermine my role as a parent, etc. Same as above, but "There are day where I see improvement."
4)You are incapable of balancing the marriage/family time with that side of your life, and I am not going to sit by and let you treat our children or me like shit so you can "express yourself again." He insisted on a break from anything pertaining to poly for an unspecified amount of time.
5) I do not trust her to be around our children, so keep her away from them. 6) Keep her out of my face, out of our marriage, and tell her nothing about our family life. Why? It is not her business, and they are not her children or concern.
7) I lowered my expectations because I expect you to do things. Follow through is your enemy, sweetheart.
8) Compromising with you is impossible.
9) I am tired of you putting her feelings before mine. Which one of us are you married to again?
10) I do not trust your judgement because...*insert the list here.* Most recent one was because you keep proving that I am right.
11) I did not appreciate being taken for granted when all I ever did was loved you, supported you, and encouraged you to be yourself.
12) I grew tired of making excuses for your behaviour. No excuse for it any of it.
13) You are free to be yourself, but I will not be part of your life because I have already read this chapter and know how it will end.
14) You lack the ability to feel empathy for me because you are too concerned about her. You did not hurt her repeatedly.
15) I disliked having a wife who was only available on certain days of the week. I could have stayed a bachelor if I was going to be alone all the time.
16) I did not appreciate being ignored or dismissed like a child. I have feelings, and they should have been respected. Sorry my opinions messed up your perfect portrait.
17) I disliked having her around like a tag along on every vacation. I get that she was part of your "family," but would it have killed you have spent time with me and our family alone?
18) I will not stand you for making decisions about my children without including me again. In the same scheme, we do not need three parents; i.e. no need for a third person to have co-parent rights.
19) I disliked the secrecy.
20) I disliked being out.

It keeps going and going. Guess what? I have followed through on the ones I could follow through on. The ones involving trust will take time and not just five months. She has not been around our children, talked to them, and knows nothing about them, has not visited our home, and he has seen her twice. In case I forget, he politely reminds me that there are "some people" that he would prefer not to associate with. I am home every night. We mutually decided to put our son in a nursery. I take all of his feelings, opinions, and thoughts in to consideration because I hear everything he says. He resented being out because of the hell it caused. We are not out, and we will not be out no matter what. We have no secrets because full disclosure is the only acceptable policy.

Our daughter wanted more family time, and we have as much as her being in school and active part will allow. That usually leaves some week nights and the weekends. She has ballet, music lessons, and various events at the school, so it is mostly weekends. We do eat breakfast and dinner as a family every day and on any given day, there are 50+ family activities all over the city. This place is very child friendly. We are taking them to the movies tonight, and the proceeds are going to cancer research. Family time that is charitable. Win-win. We make sure to spend part of the evening with her doing something she likes. Painting, drawing, making something, watching her favourite show(s), or going for an ice cream run. We incorporate the little one if he is not already in the bed.

I negotiate things because no compromises was not working. Everything was going his way, and I had no say. There was no happy medium. His end was always devoid of any emotion, but logistically, the suggestions always made sense.

Our therapist probably wants to shake me. Despite her professional demeanour, I know I grind on her nerves. She constantly preaches about follow through with things especially pertaining to my ex which are and will continue to be a sore spot. Her opinion is that I should have stuck by my original stance of no contact at all. The only positive is that he was expecting me to revert backwards, so he had no chance for disappointment.

I have taken plenty of time off work. I needed to do that because I was missing important time with my children. I found a balance. I work while they are at school. I was bored being at home all day. It was eating me up to have to rely on him to be the breadwinner. Our therapist was puzzled because she was like, "You do not have to work, right?" Correct. I want to work. I hate depending on people for anything. I need to be secure in the thought that if I had to, the household would still run efficiently with one income and that I can support myself if he were to leave. No more 80+ hour weeks, 24 hour shifts, 12-16 hour days, or anything unusual. I work from 10-1 on M-T-Thurs, have lunch by myself or with friends, go home and do housework or prepare dinner, pick up my daughter by 3:15, drive to my son's nursery, and depending on traffic, by 4:00-4:15, we are home. DH is sometimes already there and working on dinner, and the latest he has gotten home is between 4:30-5. My daughter usually has some down time before she starts on homework. While she is watching a show or playing in her room, I start on dinner/help DH. While dinner is on, I take the chance to finish the housework, or I spend time with my my children. We help her with homework, have dinner, sometimes we go out as a family or individually/do something with them inside, bath time, story time, feeding the little one again, bed time by 9:00-9:30 for them, and the rest of the night is spent with DH, if we are at home at the same time. If one of us goes out, it shifts a bit. We always end the night together.

I wish he did just nod. He is not that agreeable at all. He challenges most things, and we negotiate. He expects me not to follow through, so he comes armed with knowledge and alternatives. He plans for it to happen because he knows it will. Quite sad now that I think about it. Our marriage is not a billion dollar merger, and we should not have to negotiate the terms of everything. He said something a few months ago that I laughed off. "She is your poison and potentially lethal drug of choice." It might be true, but I need to quit.

Part of my issue is follow through, but the bigger issue is consistency. I elect to do it from time to time, but I need to always do it. That is my challenge.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 07-25-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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  #577  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:45 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Default 20 Weeks, 1 Day

It has been a relatively quiet day. DH was off today, and I do not work on Friday's, so we spent the first half of the day together. We had breakfast at patisserie in the next suburb. We went for jog in the park (cardio purposes; still training for a race on Sunday) and just talked. We bought lunch from a food truck. It was the best burger I have had in awhile. I am supposed to be eating healthy, but I have been craving chips and a burger forever. After that, he dropped me off at home and left to pick up the duckie. She gets out at 12:30 on Friday's. Nanny J is going to pick up our son at his usual time because he is on a consistent schedule, and if DH had picked him up, it would have been in the middle of his afternoon nap. Without that nap, he is crochety, and I would like for him to be well-rested when we take him to the movie. It is specifically for babies and small children, but I do not want to be the one with the child who screams the whole movie.

DH and the little one just got home awhile ago. The first thing she did when she walked in was gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek. She is such a sweetheart. I may have messed up my marriage. I missed her today. She told me about her day while I fixed her a snack. She is down for a nap right now. DH and I are spending some time apart before counselling at 4. It just gives a chance to think about what we want to address during the day's session. We always have a reconnection dinner or full date after and any topics about what was discussed during the session are shelved for 24-48 hours. It just gives us the chance to process what was said or think of questions to ask one another. We have a winning formula going right about now, and it is seemingly working.

It has been 20 weeks and 1 day, since the fallout occurred. There have definitely been positive changes. Self-check? I know that I still have some habits I need to break. I need to be more consistent. I need to do more than talk the talk and prove positive things and not just negative things. I need to take responsibility and hold myself accountable. I need to put others needs before my wants. I need to permanently cut ties with my ex. A friendship is realistically too much. We had a great 12 years, but I just do not see where she fits in to my new normal. It is like an addiction, and he was right. She is my chosen drug of choice. I need to break free of the hold she had over me. I will always love her, but I have to distance myself from something and someone that is bad for me and my marriage. I need to make compromises that are not self-serving and strictly beneficial to me. I need to learn how to trust my judgement. I need to trust myself not to make the same mistakes. I need to grow more confident in my new normal, so that I can stop relying upon the old habits that are comfortable and familiar. I need to lower my fall through percentage. It saddens me that he expects me to revert back to my old ways, side with my ex, and do some of the things I did before.

I have improved my listening and overall communication skills. I respect his feelings, opinions, and thoughts. We are still abiding by full disclosure, so there are no omissions. We do not ague. We talk, passionately debate, and if it starts getting heated, we agree to back away from the topic until we can cool down. I am around physically and emotionally more than I have been in the past. I am not working to the point of having no energy. I have no interests--romantically or in general--that take me or my attention away from my family. I am there for breakfast and dinner every day. I am usually there when he goes to bed and wakes up every morning. I go out with friends, and he goes out with his. We still have our respective hobbies and interests, but we have a healthy balance. He checks with me before just disappearing, and he returns at a decent hour. Our overall intimacy has improved. We cuddle pretty much every night. Usually while watching a movie, having a glass of wine, and most of the time, words do not need to be said. The lovemaking was already steamy and passionate, but it is more frequent. Twice a day. I am satisfied on that front. Our marriage is not so serious. We are having fun with one another and being light-hearted and flirty. We have several mini dates, spontaneous dates, and well planned dates. Last week, we dropped our children off at school, parked the vehicle, walked to a coffee shop, had croissants/coffee, and talked, before we started our respective days. Our new norm reminds me of the old days. We are much more open with one another and affectionate. I love our conversations these days. All in all, our marriage is 10x healthier than it was 20 weeks ago, and I can say that this is the healthiest it has been in years. Is there room for improvement? Mmhm. Each day is a chance to be even better than the days, weeks, and months prior. Baby steps and taking it one day at a time. Rome was not in a day or even mere months.

Will poly ever fit in to our marriage again? I am not sure. It seems cruel to throw a curve in to something that is finally working and healthy. I agreed to give his way a try, and it is working. I am not worried about trying to make poly fit the mould and present structure. I have to keep my priorities straight. Off to get ready for counselling.
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  #578  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:11 PM
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Sounds to me like things are going quite a bit better. Can I ask, do you feel like there's an empty place inside where poly would/should be? If not, then I reckon it is fine to live monogamously.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:05 PM
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Sounds like Matt is filling her empty space twice a day.
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Old 07-27-2013, 05:34 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sounds to me like things are going quite a bit better. Can I ask, do you feel like there's an empty place inside where poly would/should be? If not, then I reckon it is fine to live monogamously.
I have no warm feelings surrounding it. I am actually quite a cynic now. When I read certain things about poly, I find myself thinking, "Ugh. That is bullshit." I have found no positives that it brought in to my life. I read about other people's, and I cannot relate to a single one. I just feel like I should be able to find one, and to this date, I still have not. I cannot even say a friendship with Si because I know I need to remove myself from that. I cannot say poly helped me to deal with my issues. I knew some of

My best friend likened it to my last pregnancy, which was a hell filled experience. She asked me was my son worth it, and if I would go through it again because I knew it would be worth it in the end? Absolutely. I want another child. She asked me if I would be willing to go through any of this (marital counselling, drama with Matt/Si, the disengagement of my child from Si, the subtle disapproval of my parents, the in-laws blackballing my ex, not having a relationship with my MIL, all the arguments, etc.) again and if it was worth it? My response was absolutely...not. As far as all of this, if only I knew then what I know now.
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