Sex?

[redsirenn]

(From Grounded Spirit)

“You now can put sexual desires right out on the table and discuss & deal with them intelligently all the while keeping the real foundations of a loving relationship separate. It's JUST SEX !”

- Ahhh be careful. Maybe to you sex can be “just” sex. To others it can mean a lot more! Some only have sex if they love someone. Some find it spiritual and share it with only a few or one person in their lives. And while I am at it - I have met several couples who do monogamy well, and DO NOT SUFFER – as some here might put it. They are Happy! Fulfilled! And have honest and open conversations with each other. There are a lot of ways to achieve happiness and bliss within both relationship paradigms, just as there are situations when it may not work.

(From Loving Radiance)

“Sorry-wanted to be helpful, but you lost me right here.
How is being with someone who insists that only the two of you can have sex polyamory????
Just a bit lost here.”

- And here too. Poly can very well mean that sex isn’t involved. There are lots of ways that people love and express that love. There are also many sexual or non sexual states that people fall into. Poly can mean WHATEVER anyone wants it to mean, am I wrong here?
- Now, in this case it might not mean that – it feels more like she wants him to be mono, not poly. BUT I wanted to make the point that a couple COULD be poly and have loving relationships with others that do not involve sex… ever. It is possible.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by redsirenn

QUOTE – (From Grounded Spirit)

“You now can put sexual desires right out on the table and discuss & deal with them intelligently all the while keeping the real foundations of a loving relationship separate. It's JUST SEX !”

- Ahhh be careful. Maybe to you sex can be “just” sex. To others it can mean a lot more! Some only have sex if they love someone. Some find it spiritual and share it with only a few or one person in their lives. And while I am at it - I have met several couples who do monogamy well, and DO NOT SUFFER – as some here might put it. They are Happy! Fulfilled! And have honest and open conversations with each other. There are a lot of ways to achieve happiness and bliss within both relationship paradigms, just as there are situations when it may not work.

Hi RS,

Me and you should start a 'can'ning factory ? Maybe 'can'ed lube ?
And we'll be in agreement that 'sex' CAN be most anything to most anybody !
And monogamy absolutely CAN work !

And I don't think even that the vast majority of poly minded people would disagree with any of that for a minute !

So I assume the reason you brought out the canning jars was....maybe to point out that broad generalized statements do not constitute rules ?
And they don't !
For every majority there's a corresponding minority. (seems poly is definitely a minority). For every rule there's an exception.
But I still would stand by the theory that any relationship that was founded SOLELY on sex - spiritual or otherwise - was a fragile one at best.
And although I also agree that there are wonderful people who CAN only be sexual with someone where a deep, loving relationship exists, I equally acknowledge that those people are historically a minority and that much of that dependency is due to repression of our natural sexuality.
Sex CAN be just sex - and really good too - for everyone.
And it seems the growth in polyamory is at least partially due to the awareness and acknowledgment of that.
T'weren't my idea

GS

[LovingRadiance]

Originally Posted by redsirenn

-
Poly can very well mean that sex isn’t involved. There are lots of ways that people love and express that love. There are also many sexual or non sexual states that people fall into. Poly can mean WHATEVER anyone wants it to mean, am I wrong here?

NOPE-you are correct redsirenn. My apologies for being unclear.
I DO believe it's VERY possible to have a polyamorous relationship that does not include sex.
In complete honesty I myself have that. BUT I got into a bad habit of "assumption" in talking on the board. In my r/l I regularly talk about how Em is part of our poly-family, and she's not sexually involved with any of us, but the love, the depth, is so much more than anyone we've ever had that with.But on the board there is SO much talk about sex... I fell in the trap.

MY DEEPEST APOLOGIES!!!!!! (no sarcasm, true sincerity here, I know that's hard to see in type, so I want to be sure everyone knows!)

LR

[redsirenn]

Hello -
I just wanted to make it so that others reading this thread wouldn't feel mislead. I knew that if I pointed this stuff out, GS and LR would come back to make sure they weren't misunderstood.

Thanks

[Lemondrop]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

...And although I also agree that there are wonderful people who CAN only be sexual with someone where a deep, loving relationship exists, I equally acknowledge that those people are historically a minority and that much of that dependency is due to repression of our natural sexuality...

This is the part I take issue with. This is as much an assumption as the idea that poly is really an excuse to cheat. While I might be able to accept that people who only have sex as part of a loving relationship are in the minority, I must argue that your statement that it is a dependency or that it is due to repression of sexuality sounds more like judgement. My experience has been that people who say that they can only have sex as part of a "deep, loving relationship" are just like everyone else--some of them are actually repressing due to societal expectations, and some of them really mean it and are being factual.

You seem like a nice person, GS, why the judgement? It makes it harder for others to accept us if we go around telling them that their way of life is wrong and ours is right and they must live our way or be judged.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Lemondrop

This is the part I take issue with. This is as much an assumption as the idea that poly is really an excuse to cheat. While I might be able to accept that people who only have sex as part of a loving relationship are in the minority, I must argue that your statement that it is a dependency or that it is due to repression of sexuality sounds more like judgement. My experience has been that people who say that they can only have sex as part of a "deep, loving relationship" are just like everyone else--some of them are actually repressing due to societal expectations, and some of them really mean it and are being factual.

You seem like a nice person, GS, why the judgement? It makes it harder for others to accept us if we go around telling them that their way of life is wrong and ours is right and they must live our way or be judged.

Gosh Lemon ! I'm sorry !
Damn language thing. You have to be SO careful (and I usually am) how you word things. You assume sometimes that who you are talking to has more-or-less the same background, been exposed to the same debates & studies etc because they are engaged in the conversation. BIG failing on my part here. {{spank}}

There's no judgement whatsoever in the statement you quoted or others. It just is what it is. The facts surrounding sexual repression are well established. I AM going to continue to 'assume' you too are aware of all that. If not please say so !
So to try to word it differently for clarity I might say that some people have chosen their preferred sexuality out of self awareness and their views on personal morality etc. And some have not. They've never done the deep self analysis, never really studied human sexuality, and have simply accepted the pre-programming they've received.
Am I an advocate of that study ? Absolutely !
So if there were to be any 'judgment' it could only be directed at one's functioning in a robotic, puppet mode of existence. And I WOULD judge that as 'sad'.
But in regards to sexuality - if anyone has done their homework and has come down on one side of the fence or the other - there's noting TO judge !
Does that help ?



GS

[LovingRadiance]

Funny I was about to say I think GS was focusing on the word dependent.

When I say that for me sex is dependent on a close loving relationship being established-it's not SPECIFICALLY true.

I CHOOSE to keep to that standard because I'm a happier person that way-but I am not physically DEPENDENT on it.



Then I read your last post GS.

Anyway-it was amusing to hop through all of those thoughts as I read along.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

Funny I was about to say I think GS was focusing on the word dependent.

Then I read your last post GS.

Anyway-it was amusing to hop through all of those thoughts as I read along.

Oh LR you are soooooo bad ! In such a good way.
Actually I was kind of rushed on that and I missed that 'dependency' totally ! I'm slacking. LOL

Let's call it an 'intentional' dependency Like lights on the car - we chose to put them there because it made night driving less dangerous. Now they are standard issue and we can't imagine life without them.

GS

[LovingRadiance]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Oh LR you are soooooo bad ! In such a good way.
Actually I was kind of rushed on that and I missed that 'dependency' totally ! I'm slacking. LOL

Let's call it an 'intentional' dependency Like lights on the car - we chose to put them there because it made night driving less dangerous. Now they are standard issue and we can't imagine life without them.

GS

Oh if only you knew!
Sure-I'm good with intentional dependency.
I think that's more what people mean when they say (based on the people I know-not trying to be too general)
that they NEED a close loving relationship and bond before having sex, it's not that they CAN NOT have sex with someone otherwise-it's that they have already found that HAVING that close loving relationship and bond in place makes it better (safer, more enjoyable, less problematic aftermath...) therefore they require it of themselves.
So Yes-like headlights-they have an intentional dependency (that would be me!)

[sunnydee]

Originally Posted by Kraven

But what happens when your partner (or in this case, potential partner) concludes that our "special bond" (you know that thing that just you and her do that no one else can do, that thing that makes her feel loved and like a special lady in your life and helps her control her jealousy during trying times) is that only you and her can have sex?

I don't want to get into the linguistic or philosophical debates going on here, or to have to guard every word to avoid generalizations. I'm just speaking practically from my own experience to the OP. I'm assuming the real issue is that the OP hooked up with someone who isn't poly....

First of all, it's really obvious that no one should tell anyone they aren't good enough. Not if they want a relationship with that person. I'm going to assume that you might want to approach this person who cares about you with a bit more respect than that.

Didn't you tell her before you had sex that you weren't monogamous? Some people will be able to guard their attachment level if they know the deal going in, but if the sex is that good, lots of people will equate that with love, soul-mate, completion, etc. Don't we know that the oxytocin and vasopressin released lead us to feel that way? The hormones coupled with social conditioning convinces many people of this, at least temporarily. In that sense, it's not really her fault, even if she did know going in. But, I think, there are some practical ways to help her get over this, if you and she want to work something out. If nothing else, a little distance (PLEASE be upfront about giving her some, don't just withhold contact or disappear) and a chance for her to feel attracted to someone else helps "break the spell." If she thought maybe she'd be ok with poly but now she's not so sure, well, imo, it's a lot easier to be poly if you start on the other side. If she gets to experience some of that freedom, she may be able to better understand why you would want to.

Please don't respond, guys, with the whole monogamous by nature debate. This is just some practical advice from my own experience being new to poly and recognizing this feeling.