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  #11  
Old 07-12-2013, 05:54 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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The more I think about this the less I agree with it. That is, I can't see a way for my partner to "be responsible and take time away from their puppy love" as being anything but forced placation out of a sense of duty to me. I either want my partner to desire to spend time with me or to not spend time with me - there shouldn't be any other motivators involved in this decision.

Accepting or initiating a sleepover with me out of a sense of duty is exactly the opposite of what I want. SO! Please strike my previous comment from the record.
No, of course, "duty" is an old fashioned concept and no one should ever do anything out of duty. Writing thank you cards to Aunt Mabel is a duty. Who does that anymore?

I agree, one should do it out of love and desire to be with the lover(s) already in place. I mean, I have never had a problem being eager to be with miss pixi after spending time with any of the men I've dated since meeting her. Actually she rings my bell better than all of them so it was never a problem. Even now, with my "Mr Right", Ginger, he meets needs she doesn't meet, but she meets needs he doesn't meet, so I can't do without either of them! I'd never just take off with one for an extended period without moving heaven and earth to stay in touch with the other.

But then, I've only been with miss p for 4 1/2 years, Ginger 1 1/2. Don't have the 7 year itch yet... so who knows?
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2013, 10:54 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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The most important trait I think for having a healthy relationship-poly or otherwise, is knowing yourself and a commitment to continuously knowing yourself.

That, combined with Marcus's sage advice to be responsible for yourself (he puts it more eloquently) makes a kick ass combination.

But-being responsible for yourself is a wasted effort if you don't take time to really know yourself.

Obviously-we don't know you.
But-let me give you an example of how I would deal if something similar happened with one of my partners.

I would take a day to myself to verify what it is I am feeling I need (and not getting).
Then I would tell my partner, look, for me to maintain a solid connection with another person, I really need at least one day a week of intimate connection for the majority of the time and some sort of conversation daily.

In our case-we've already had these discussions and agreed that this need of mine is reasonable to them.
One of them needs sex a couple times a week-that works for me.
One needs to have a kiss before bed each night-that works for me.

These types of things aren't addressing THE OTHER PERSONS OTHER PARTNER-because really-that's NOT pertinent.

It's a matter of addressing YOUR needs. If YOU need more than 1 short visit every 7-10 days; then establish-what DO you need? 5 short visits in a 7 day span? 1 long overnight? 2 overnights and 2 short visits? etc etc.

Then-without addressing the new woman-you tell said partner, look, this is what I need to feel fulfilled in a romantic relationship.
If they aren't up to that, then you back up a step (or how ever many steps necessary) to the level of intimacy you ARE comfortable having with whatever amount of time they are able to offer.
That could be friends or it could be friends with benefits or it could be go fuck yourself I never want to see your face again or whatever.

Myself-I need a certain amount of verbal or written communication (about a range of things I don't care which or what-something we are enjoying conversing about) before my libido will kick in. So, if my partner *needs* sex play from me a couple times a week, then I *need* them to commit to that minimum amount of communication.
If they can't, I can't.

One of my partners *needs* a certain amount of free time, alone time, in order to emotionally manage a large social engagement. So if we have a large social engagement that I am wanting him to attend with me, I need to be willing to give up some of our couple time so he can have some alone time to prepare for that. If I can't, he can't.

Does that make sense?

It's not about ever *making* another person do something or be something. It's about identifying what you need, and then expressing it in a way that still leaves it open for the other person to respectfully decline. In which case you accept their no.

I read a link on fb today kind of fitting to that concept... http://markmanson.net/fuck-yes

If they aren't clearly giving you the "fuck yes"-it's not worth your time or theirs to press.
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2013, 05:56 PM
starmonkey starmonkey is offline
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The future of your poly relationships will be served well by your attempting to improve this perspective. While it may *seem* like we are competing for peoples time, it's not a game and keeping and comparing scores is not going to help build healthy relationships.
OK - I can see what you mean there. The feeling fuels the perception of competition, and I can see how scorekeeping doesn't lead to a healthy relationship.

Quote:
I guess I'd prefer to be neglected over being placated.
Yes - me as well. I don't want someone to be me because they want to be with me.

I can't make someone want to be with me - I have tried that one, and it is a disaster. But whatever insecurities I do have, and have to deal with, I am also choosing to not remain in a relationship where a new outside relationship is going to have such a huge effect on the amount of time I get in my current one. That isn't working for me either.

Quote:
Accepting or initiating a sleepover with me out of a sense of duty is exactly the opposite of what I want. SO! Please strike my previous comment from the record.
I wonder if this is such a cut-and-dry question with an absolute answer.

Turning the question on it's head - hypothetically - let's say I have a partner and some monumental time-sucking project. Although, my partner is a priority, I'm putting most of the time into the project, because my partner seems OK, and hasn't said anything to me otherwise. What I don't know is that is it is actually bothering him/her quite a bit, but she isn't saying anything because she doesn't want me to see him/her out of a sense of duty or obligation. Resentment silently builds up...

But the rub is I do want see her - not out of obligation, but because I sincerely like meeting her needs, when I can - if I knew she was missing me, I would want to be with her - the project is just a project - my primary is my partner, and my priority. But because she hasn't said anything, I just don't know - I can't read her mind. I'm picking this hypothetical case because it seems dysfunctional to me. And the dysfunction seems like it stems from not communicating.

Marcus - I really do get you point that I need to own my own shit - that said, I do have a hard time swallowing that a good, healthy relationship is this and absolutely nothing else. You just take whatever your partner is inclined to give, and to avoid any type of obligation - make no requests whatsoever. Granted, most of my relationship experience was in monogamous relationships - and they all had problems, but I can recall times in them when I or may partner would take care of each other - not so much fixing them or how they felt, but offering them support when they needed it in one way or another.

Maybe I'm missing something - but isn't there a way of letting your partner know what you would like from them without it being an obligation at the same time? I actually do want to know what my partner wants from me - I may not choose to, or be able to give her everything she wants, but I still want to know.
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:08 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by starmonkey View Post

Maybe I'm missing something - but isn't there a way of letting your partner know what you would like from them without it being an obligation at the same time? I actually do want to know what my partner wants from me - I may not choose to, or be able to give her everything she wants, but I still want to know.
Yes! You absolutely should not just sit and take whatever a partner willingly deals out, if it's not enough for you. In fact, quite often my gf and I need to have a talk on those lines.

"Hey, we havent done xyz in a while. That is something I love to do with you. Do you miss it as well? What is preventing us from still doing that? It's really important to me we resume that activity, or even expand on it in this kind of way... I'm bored with our situation these days!"

Once a couple has a long term thing going, it's an undeniable fact, we can start to take each other for granted, get lost in work, kids, unshared hobbies, or if poly, in a new shiny person. This will not do. Intimacy and juiciness and good old FUN is lost. I will not stand for that!
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:40 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I don't think silence is the solution.
I also don't think it's part of acceptance.

Accepting means being open to either answer when you inquire.

Example:

"I miss xyz with you. I would like to resume doing that. Is this something you are interested in doing too?"

The answer could be
YES! I can't believe I've been so busy.
or
I suppose so.
or
HELL NO I am so sick of that.

Acceptance means understanding and being ok with the fact that any of these answers could follow your question.

It's not a matter of saying YOU are ok with the situation. But-if you aren't ok with the situation-then it's on you to move on.
If you bring it up and you both want a change in simiarl directions, GREAT!
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2013, 08:45 PM
starmonkey starmonkey is offline
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Acceptance means understanding and being ok with the fact that any of these answers could follow your question.
I think that is the key: only asking the question when I am willing to accept any answer, regardless if it it the one I would prefer.

The other half that rings true is deciding if the answer works for me, and if it doesn't, moving on instead of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. This doesn't work.
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2013, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by starmonkey View Post
Marcus - I really do get you point that I need to own my own shit - that said, I do have a hard time swallowing that a good, healthy relationship is this and absolutely nothing else. You just take whatever your partner is inclined to give, and to avoid any type of obligation - make no requests whatsoever. Granted, most of my relationship experience was in monogamous relationships - and they all had problems, but I can recall times in them when I or may partner would take care of each other - not so much fixing them or how they felt, but offering them support when they needed it in one way or another.
I certainly make requests of my partners and friends; it is how they know that I want something from them. The distinction I would make is that I simply ask for what I want and don't discuss emotional ramifications or complications surrounding the request. Meaning:

"Hey, I want to have a sleepover with you. Have any nights this week open?" is an open ended request without any insistence or assumption of obligation. If they say "No, can't do it. Maybe next week" is an answer I am fully willing to accept.

"Hey, I haven't spent much time with you since you started dating your new guy. Have any nights this week open for a sleep over?" is pretty open ended... granted its kind of front loaded with the idea that she has done something wrong with how she is spending her time. If they say "No, can't do it. Maybe next week" and I respond with "That's a shame, is something wrong? I feel like you aren't paying enough attention to me" builds in even more of this emotional blackmail.

A request for a loved one to take action should be done in the full knowledge that the person you are making the request to has exactly ZERO obligation to comply. Otherwise it isn't a request... it's an order.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:02 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
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...I simply ask for what I want and don't discuss emotional ramifications or complications surrounding the request.
Oh, I get emotional. I'm not British!

If miss pixi and I havent had sex in 2 weeks and haven't done any satisfying kink in months, I will definitely feel emotions around it, and that will show in my voice. Hopefully I address it before I get too frustrated, but sometimes I feel compassion for her not wanting to sex me because of all she is dealing with in her life, and so I try to be patient and wait... sometimes she comes back to me without me saying something, but sometimes I do have to bring it up and request more attention, so sometimes our discussion can be heated.

I just still try and use "I statements", never call her names, or curse. Usually she will also get upset, a bit defensive. But we know to take a break, to give her time to consider... Soon, I get an apology, and then my needs met in short order. Shen tends to get wrapped up in her own issues and take me a wee bit for granted.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2013, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The distinction I would make is that I simply ask for what I want and don't discuss emotional ramifications or complications surrounding the request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Oh, I get emotional. I'm not British!
There have been a lot of discussion here about the MBTI types and this is an example of the way a T (thinker) approaches an emotional issue verses a F (feelings oriented person).

It's possible to use a combination of the two! For example: I'm glad you have met someone new- it's nice to see you so happy. I understand that you want to spend a lot of time with him/her, but I am missing you and would love to spend some time with you this weekend! There is a great band playing at the Blues Club Saturday night. We could go out to eat, go to the club and then you could spend the night at my house! Would that work for you?
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2013, 02:11 PM
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I'm a very emotional person, my goal is to avoid taking action until I've had a chance to intellectualize it. More importantly, I want to make requests of my partner which do not imply any kind of negative judgement about how they are managing their time or emotional blackmail to get them to spend more of it with me.

It's not a big disagreement, just wanted to clarify my viewpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idealist View Post
I'm glad you have met someone new- it's nice to see you so happy. I understand that you want to spend a lot of time with him/her, but I am missing you and would love to spend some time with you this weekend! There is a great band playing at the Blues Club Saturday night. We could go out to eat, go to the club and then you could spend the night at my house! Would that work for you?
Everyone communicates however they feel comfortable, but for me this first part is something I try to avoid doing. It is front loading the question so that my partner is hesitant to give me the "wrong" answer. Set up this way, if my partner comes back and says "No, maybe next weekend" they are not only turning down my offer but they are telling me they don't care that I miss them.

When I ask IV to have a sleepover with me she knows it is because I miss her. She knows that the reason is because she is spending all of her time at work, with a lover, or whatever. My telling her that sounds like I'm trying to correct her behavior so my goal is to not say that kind of stuff. This is most true when I really am feeling emotional and vulnerable.

When I'm just missing her and want to tell her that, I do. When I want to hear her scream in orgasm I reserve the right to let her know. But, when I'm having insecurity stuff or am otherwise emotionally vulnerable I try to be extra careful not to make that her problem.
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