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  #561  
Old 07-12-2013, 02:11 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I deleted it and decided to expand on it a little more.

I really do dislike when people tell people to get a hobby, join a gym, build their self-esteem, stop being co-dependent, find some friends, or do WTF ever it takes to deal with a partner being out with someone else.

Oh I second, third, and fourth this! I think it's the totally WRONG approach. It got to the point, for us, that hubby started wondering, why be married? If the answer to not getting enough time with your spouse is take care of yourself, if the answer to not having your spouse do things with and for you is to do it yourself then why the hell be married? Basically, you're not! We've come to a better idea of balance now. We are still working on coming back from that damn advice. Advice that is handed out to mono partners like candy! I swear it does more damage than anything!

He's seen so many people give up, get divorced, because they are basically told poly is okay for their partner but only if you ask nothing of them and put no responsibilities on them. If you aren't getting your needs met meet them yourself! After awhile they realize they aren't IN a marriage anymore. So it's good bye.

I've been a SAHM most of the kids life, and when I wasn't, hubby was. That was the eye opener because he could see how I lost myself, so we learned to try and make it a point to do things that are just 'us'. Meaning for me to do things that are just me and him things that are just him. Still a work in progress but important.

I swear I want to wring the neck of these people giving advice to people new to poly or having partners that are new to poly that they should just 'get a hobby, get a life and get over it!' Sure, there's lots of internal work with poly, why am I jealous, why does this bother me. I just thought the POINT of being in a relationship with someone was if you need a sounding board, they were there! If you need time or reassurances, they would WANT to give it to you!

Pffft, get a hobby, please!
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  #562  
Old 07-12-2013, 03:05 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post
Oh I second, third, and fourth this! I think it's the totally WRONG approach. It got to the point, for us, that hubby started wondering, why be married? If the answer to not getting enough time with your spouse is take care of yourself, if the answer to not having your spouse do things with and for you is to do it yourself then why the hell be married? Basically, you're not! We've come to a better idea of balance now. We are still working on coming back from that damn advice. Advice that is handed out to mono partners like candy! I swear it does more damage than anything!
Damage is not the word! We had so many arguments over his hobbies. I wanted to scream. Matt was at that point, too. Why am I married when I am alone more often than not? I think we will be working on undoing this advice for awhile. Slowly breaking it down little by little.

Quote:
He's seen so many people give up, get divorced, because they are basically told poly is okay for their partner but only if you ask nothing of them and put no responsibilities on them. If you aren't getting your needs met meet them yourself! After awhile they realize they aren't IN a marriage anymore. So it's good bye.
Exactly.

Quote:
I've been a SAHM most of the kids life, and when I wasn't, hubby was. That was the eye opener because he could see how I lost myself, so we learned to try and make it a point to do things that are just 'us'. Meaning for me to do things that are just me and him things that are just him. Still a work in progress but important.
Now that I am a SAHM, I am realising that balance is important. Matt's hours are more functional now, so when he gets off, he insists that I take some time to myself. He told me a few days, "Even if you just go get some coffee, take some time for yourself." One of my concerns was that I was going to lose myself, have no time/energy for my interests, and just be Matt's wife or my children's mother.

Things are much better now that he is being more flexible with his hobbies. Naturally, he had interests that he wished to continue, and I respected that. Once it warms up, I want to take up some of his water activities like surfing and snorkelling. I am open to new experiences and more time to bond. I doubt that I will be able to get him try yoga or ever get a pedicure, though. I see men in the nail salon all the time. We have found a balance. We do not want all of each other's available time. We do want to make sure we spend enough time together, though. It is all about balance and compromise right now.

Quote:
I swear I want to wring the neck of these people giving advice to people new to poly or having partners that are new to poly that they should just 'get a hobby, get a life and get over it!' Sure, there's lots of internal work with poly, why am I jealous, why does this bother me. I just thought the POINT of being in a relationship with someone was if you need a sounding board, they were there! If you need time or reassurances, they would WANT to give it to you!

Pffft, get a hobby, please!
I am glad I am not the only one who feels like this!

*Sarcasm Alert*

With all the alone time newbies will have, they will have plenty of time to work on themselves. Meanwhile, they will end up feeling lonely (who cares that your partner is gone for two months with another lover and barely calls), neglected (NRE/dopey brain is a perfectly okay excuse to spend a whopping total of an hour per week with one's partner), flawed (she is a better cook than me; she is thinner than me; he has more muscles; she/he loves that person more; he is more well endowed, so I must be a terrible lover because my partner does not want to sleep with me any more--none of these are the partner's fault, right?), and/or silly for being jealous (get that under control because it is not your partner's issue; he/she should not have to do anything to make you feel more comfortable). Oh, but it is a-okay because their partners have no responsibility to make them feel secure with the relationship, and they should ask nothing of them. Whatever is offered should be appreciated. One should feel like the spirit of love has touched their soul when they want to spend time with them because it is a privilege.

I have heard people say stuff like ^^^.
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  #563  
Old 07-15-2013, 02:17 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good morning and Happy Monday! It is a beautiful day.

The weekend was certainly interesting. A few decisions/compromises were made. My daughter is going to school tomorrow morning. In all seriousness, I was not going to have anything to do while she was gone. My son is low maintenance, and I really would be watching the clock from the time DH left until he returned. With that being said...

I am going to be working part-time. Instead of being thrown in to something new in October, I am going to shadow the person I am taking over for, meet the people I will be working with and the ones I will be caring for, and ease in to a new position. For the time being, I am going to work in the mornings/early afternoons. I do not want to burn out and have no energy left for my children.

Duckie #2 is going to a nursery. We toured a facility last year while I was still pregnant. We put him on the list then, and we just got the call on Friday afternoon. They have a 18-24 month wait list for children under three. It was [jokingly] advised that if one wants to ever be accepted, they would do well to put their name on the list before conception. I feel comfortable with him going there. I was on the fence about sending him to a nursery, but I do believe it will benefit him in the long run. If we do not like it, we always have the option to take him out. He is just going part-time for now. It makes Nanny J's job significantly easier. She is just in charge of picking them up, giving them an afternoon snack, and tending to them until we get home.

I did tell DH about the e-mail. As expected, he was indifferent. I am not really surprised. He has completely detached from anything pertaining to my ex. It is not that he does not care. On the list of things that concern him, she is not on the list. He asked if I was going to respond. I am still not sure I am going to. As of this moment, I have not responded. If that changes, I will tell him.

We had counselling on Friday. Our therapist was questioning my decision to cut my ex off, and she wonders why I just abruptly severed ties when I have been fighting for this for so long. She asked how he felt about it. All he could say was that he did not ask me to do that, but he respects my decision. Very impersonal and emotionless. At this point, I do feel like he is expecting me to say, "On second thought, I want to keep working towards reubuilding our marriage and getting to the point of being able to renew a romance with Si." However, the second part is not going to happen. My decision has puzzled those around me who knew about the situation at hand. They fail to realise it was unhealthy for every single person involved. I did what I felt was best.

All the back and forth had to come to a head. Would I have loved for everything to work out differently? Absolutely. I love Si, and I do miss our relationship. It would be crazy to say the past 12-13 years were irrelevant and meant nothing to me. Before the neglected DH, endless selfish choices, and DH's current stance; polite but firm dismissal of Si, there was good in it. Could we get back to that point? It would take years, and there is no guarantee. I explained to Si that I felt that we kept returning to the same point. The back and forth was not working or healthy. I told her that I still loved her, but I felt like we reached the peak of a mountain; nothing left to climb. Could we go back down and start over? Sure could. We could, but it would take a commitment and work from all three people. With the way things have been and will likely continue to be, that is not something I am even willing to put my hope in to. I could see that no one was completely happy where we were. DH was content and happy at moments but always wondering when or if she would come back in the picture and ruin that. Si was content but not happy because our relationship had ended and dealing with the fact that every time she was close, it caused problems in my marriage. I could not pretend that I had enough faith to continue fighting for it. I did not like it or enjoy any of it. I was not willing to settle for almost always being at odds with him when it came to her. I knew it was going to hurt her and cause her to shed tears. I am truly apologetic for that. I never wanted to make her cry or feel any pain. It is a sad situation all around. It will get better in due time.

I am going to cling to hope that I made the right decision. I am sure there are people--even on here--who are wondering, what the bloody hell was she thinking, and why did she cut Si off?! Love does not conquer all.

While the little ones are napping, I am going to work on lunch for them and dinner for the family. I hope everyone is enjoying their day or evening.
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  #564  
Old 07-15-2013, 07:36 PM
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I actually thought awhile ago that the reconnecting with Si probably wouldn't work (due to how strong Matt feels about it), so I'm not completely surprised about your separation from her. Perhaps what cemented that course of action was the time when you spent all day with Si and Matt got upset about it? or even the time when you and Matt had to curtail the public displays of affection in front of Si. Things like that will give you pause and make you think, "This isn't going to work."
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  #565  
Old 07-15-2013, 08:50 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I knew it probably would not work. Both weekends were the beginning of the end. The first weekend irritated him with having to curtail the PDA and putting her feelings before his. That felt wrong because it was wrong. It was a trigger and painful reminder, which is why he spoke out.

The second weekend irritated him because I chose spending time with her over our children, and it rubbed him wrong because of our daughter's feelings. It left a bad taste in his mouth when our daughter asked where I was and why I was not there? He had to explain to her that I was with Si. It was like the past few years were happening all over again. I have admitted to inadvertently putting her before my children. This time it set wheels in motion in her little mind. I forget that my oldest is not an infant or toddler any more. I might have been able to miss moments before because she was not of able mind to take notice or care. Now, she can and does. She is a little person with her own thoughts and feelings that are capable of being hurt. She is at a very impressionable age, and I cannot do the things I did when she was younger. In the end, I owed an apology to my child because she thought I liked being around Si more than her, and she said that it hurt her feelings. Seeing her cry made me realise that I have to change because I never want to see that again. She just knew mummy was not there when she wanted her to be. She understands spending time apart and alone time, but a core piece of the "family" was not there for family time. The sad part is I had promised that we would have more family time, and the first chance I had to keep my promise, I broke it. She had every right to be upset. This could also explain why she has said nothing about Si. In her mind, Si could be the one taking me or my attention away from her.

As far as DH's feelings, I figured it had nothing to do with seeing her or spending time with her. He held on to the desire to make sure their lives never crossed. He has no tolerance for me or her hurting our children, which is why he reacted the way he did. He does not trust Si, so her indirect actions did hurt our daughter. Meet another trigger. It did nothing to help rebuild the trust between them. It caused a regression. Before he was willing to try therapy with her, now, he is shut down and refusing the idea as a whole.

Basically, the platinum rule was to make sure that being around her did not detract attention from our children and marriage. I proved that I could not successfully carry that out or even balance the two. I went to the gym with her and saw her a few times. He had no problem any of those times. He simply shrugged it off and thanked me for the honesty. The catch was that none of those things meant I had to choose between spending time with her or my family, though. If I was around her at 6 AM for a morning workout, they were still sleeping. By the time they had woken up, I was back, working on breakfast, and continuing with the morning. He had no complaints because I was present when it mattered.

I did not have all of this information before I made the decision to sever ties. Now that I do, I am even more confident in the decision that I made. It is seriously not worth hurting my children over. It is easy to say DH can suck it up, but I challenge any one to tell a young child to suck it up and get over themselves.
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  #566  
Old 07-16-2013, 07:52 PM
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No, that makes sense. The kids come first.
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  #567  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:25 PM
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This will be a short post. We are making the school runs in about 10 minutes.

Duckie #1 loves her new school. She talked my ear off yesterday about her new teacher, classmates, and what they did yesterday. She was beaming with happiness, and I am quite elated that the first day went so well. DH and I both were there for parent-child time before the school day started. It just gives parents/children 30 minutes of bonding time that they may or may not have had before they left the house. We left her school around 9 and headed to our son's new nursery. I called his teachers throughout the day to check on him, and there were no problems. They had us approve his customised menus for the next couple of weeks, since he has food allergies. Even with the little ones, they have morning tea and afternoon tea, which I think is precious. DH and I went for a walk through the area. It gave us a chance to reconnect before he headed off to work. Things are going pretty well between us. We have seemingly hashed the issues we had. Definitely nice to have some peace in my life.

Si did reach out to me to see if I had gotten her e-mail. I just let her know that I had received it. In not so many words, I told her that I had been busy, but that I would respond at a later point and time.

I hope everyone is having a great morning/afternoon/evening. Off to make school runs.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:13 PM
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Sounds so good so far.
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  #569  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:10 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Being Out

I am no longer "out." It is no secret that my DH was strongly opposed to it. However, I mirror in his thoughts. We have different reasons for not wanting to be out, but at the end of the day, it is in our family's best interest. To my family and his family, it seems as if it was just a phase that has passed. My family was never opposed to it. My mum was disappointed at first. My father never said anything to me about it. He may never admit it his true feelings in a bid to protect mine, but I know he was never a fan of it. He wanted me to be happy, so he never said anything out of line. He never asked about my ex. He asked about my DH and my siblings respective spouses all the time. He was polite to Si, but I knew my daddy. I actually care about my family, so I was not about to cut them off because something I chose to do made them uncomfortable. At no point were they ever disrespectful, and I actually need my parents and siblings in my life. I did not have a rough upbringing, and if my only payback to my parents for them loving me is to cut them out of my life, then clearly I have some issues.

Children and Poly

I am not introducing anyone to my children. DH does not want them exposed to poly. Our visions go hand in hand this time. As their mother, it is my job to protect them. I have seen how they can get hurt. I should have learned when my ex distanced herself when all of this started. That was a red flag I ignored. At the moment, my child has not said a single word about Si. She has not even said her name. She knows she is here. I have mentioned her, and she does not acknowledge. My child is still upset about what happened a few weeks ago, and she does not have my forgiving tendencies. I had the tendency to dismiss her feelings and write them off because of her age, but I have realised, her feelings are valid. It was presumptuous to think, "Oh. She will wake up tomorrow and forget about whatever it is." She has every right to not want to be around someone that has shown that they have the ability to hurt her. Despite her age, she understands more than I give her credit for. I am not one of those parents who believes, "Well, if they are good for me, they are good for my children." Bullshit. Si may have been good for me, but for my oldest? Not so much.

Love

In reading about the Triangular Theory of Love, our therapist was on to something. Love is not equal. No two relationships are made of the same types of love. The type of love I have with DH is consummate love. I feel that same passion that I felt in the very beginning of our relationship. It is reminiscent of the dopamine filled honeymoon stage. 13 years in to our relationship, and I yearn for him in a way that is beyond reason and rationale. I am of the belief that what I had with Si was companionate love. Yes, there was a long-term commitment, respect, loyalty even, but I did not feel that same passion. There was no doubt that I loved her and still do. I feel DH's love surrounding me and all inside of me. With her, I knew she loved me, but it was just not the same feeling. I believe this is why it was so easy to lose faith and to end the relationship back in March. I am continuing to fight for my marriage, wiping my brow, and pushing through the good and the bad. Never once have I ever lost faith in our ability to get our marriage back on track.

I spent all of that time trying to balance it out and get back to the level of consummate love. Hence why our therapist felt I was trying to compensate for something that was missing. I spent more time with her. I held the relationship with her to the ideals of a consummate level with a companionate reality. I ended up being complacent in my marriage and neglecting my spouse because I was secure in knowing that I had consummate love with him. I ignored the red flags. I was attracted to her in every way, but I was not running to have sex with her. I could go without having sex with her and never bat an eyelash. DH can look at me, and I am instantly turned on. I may not have even been in the mood at that moment, but it was still going to happen. I never compared the two, but I definitely craved physical intimacy with him more than her. Before things became too chaotic, we were making love every day. Lack of sex was never a problem. With my no bed hopping rule, the physically intimate side of my relationship with Si likely suffered. I wanted my DH and no one else could fill that void. I knew there was a disconnect of sorts with her, but I wanted to fill that void instead of just letting go and giving up. I could not quite put my finger on what it was or when it first became apparent.

Si asked me not to give up on her and us. Even if DH was on board with the idea, I am not sure I have the ability to do what needs to be done to get the relationship back to a consummate level. I know it is not a one person job, but I would need DH's understanding, tolerance, and patience while I attempting to navigate the waters of repairing our marriage, being there for our children/family, and rebuilding a relationship with her. I would also have to be careful not to let the rebuilding efforts with her detract attention away from the progress we are making every day. Realistically, even with baby steps, a fraction of a day per week would not be sufficient enough to accomplish the goal. It seems like it would be a slap in the face to even ask him to consider that when I have proven that balancing a friendship with her and our lives was already too much. I am not willing to ask this of him when he specifically asked for a break and time to focus on us and our marriage.

Hypothetically, if I agreed to this and was able to get him on board with the idea, there are several things she would have to realise. I will not put her before my children or marriage again. I will not be able to split my time like I did before. I cannot be who, what, or even like I was before. The old me is dead and gone. That would take work, attention away from my marriage and family, and time I probably do not have. With demanding children, a less than enthusiastic and neglected husband, a new job, Truthfully, I am not sure I could or would be willing to commit to that. Could we reignite the flames that once burned? Quite possibly. If it sounds cold, do not worry. I explained all of this to her. It was only right to be honest about my real feelings and thoughts.

I do miss having her in my life as a friend. I have given up on the romantic side, but it would be nice to have our friendship back.

Recent Developments

DH and I were talking last night over drinks. This was the first in-depth conversation we have had since I told him about my decision to sever all ties. He is still struggling to forgive her, and it is easy to see why. Just when he lets his guard down, something happens to remind him why it was a bad idea. Like I told him, forgiveness is a personal choice, but it is a release from anger and pain. From the religious POV, he understands that he needs to forgive her, but there is a block. He can continue to act like she does not exist and is a non-factor, but it will never make him feel any better. They have not talked since the beginning of May. Plenty has happened since then. I never wanted to be the messenger, but instead of talking to her, he talked to me about his feelings. I had to convey them to her and pass messages between them.

We are going to see her tonight at the Make-a-Wish Gala. The tickets for this event were purchased months ago, and she is going to be seated at our table. I hope the energy is not awkward. Tonight is not about us. It is about a cause we all care about, so we need to keep that in mind. It is the first chance I get to dip in to the charitable scene in a new place and to make connections, and I seriously not want the evening to be marred by bad blood between my DH and my ex.

They have agreed to have drinks before the gala to kill the awkward vibes. I think it might do them some good to talk again. I do not mean that sugar coated bullshit they did in May. You can be respectful and tell somebody what you really think or feel. Holding back is not a good idea. If they are ever going to resolve this, they are going to have to be real about it and stop tip toeing around the issues. If there are still issues brewing between them, the friction will never end unless they address their issues head on. The romantic future has been removed from the table, so he has nothing to worry about on that front. I think they need to be able to talk to each other and work out the issues at hand. If they can be mature enough to do that, then some of the friction might disintegrate.

I am glad that we talked last night, and that we are all in agreement to have a relaxed and enjoyable evening. I have to start on breakfast and get ready to start the day. I have to put my best Stepford foot forward to meet the parents of the school.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 07-18-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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  #570  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:37 PM
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Good summary; I hope things go well at the Make-a-Wish Gala.
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