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  #101  
Old 07-13-2013, 01:26 PM
london london is offline
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I think that the majority of poly people still want the "normal" things like marriage, kids, that whole home life etc. Many poly people had those things before they started having open relationships to begin with. Everyone I have ever dated sees that sort of thing in their future, they just don't want the monogamy part that is often associated with that type of relationship.

What I was talking about in the examples I gave was the fact that is my partner (who I have decided not to split with despite these issues) has a "toxic spouse" that he lives with, I can enforce boundaries about the physical space we share. I can decide that I never want to be in her vicinity, or somewhere that she could potentially be, that would include her house. That would affect my relationship with my partner because his house would always be off limits as a location we can spend time together. I am not talking about us potentially living together, simply because I can't see that relationship style in my future. However, if he did have a toxic spouse, that would mean that option was forbidden, rather than unlikely. I don't particularly like relationships where things are forbidden. I much prefer things to be unlikely because of compatibility issues rather than because someone else doesn't want that to happen.

I, too, am not keen on fostering close metamour bonds. However, I don't want things to be so bad that we could never share a physical space in order to accompany, support or spend time with our paramour. That takes effort from all of us
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  #102  
Old 07-13-2013, 01:57 PM
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I think that the majority of poly people still want the "normal" things like marriage, kids, that whole home life etc.
Perhaps that is true of a certain subset of polyfolk - ie., younger people of childbearing age, but I wouldn't call that group the majority of people practicing poly. The problem is we really don't know the demographics of all poly people, nor even how many there are. I also think there are lots more people out there living polyamorously who have never even heard of the word, and for whom meeting the usual societal standards is not the goal by any means. I highly doubt that cohabitation and marriage is high on the list of older polyfolk, the childfree, etc.
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  #103  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:11 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I don't know that "majority" would fit there either.

There are some people who want that joint home etc-I'm one of them.

The answer for me is-when my husband was the toxic person to our group-he moved out. Yes-it's his name on the mortgage and yet it still got paid. But until he could stop being toxic-he had an apartment of his own.

As for dating someone else who had a toxic partner-there isn't a person on the planet that is worth that effort to me. I wouldn't date them. They need to get their situation in order and make the situation one where dating them is "user-friendly".

If I were the toxic person-I would expect the same.
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  #104  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:18 PM
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I think part of the issue is how exactly does one define toxic?

Toxic to the household?
Or toxic to the new partner?
Who identifies what toxic is?

My husband identified himself as toxic to the family as a whole (including my other partner) and moved out.

When he had a potential who tried to identify me as toxic (because I wouldn't allow her to decide when and where my kids joined in her activities & wouldn't allow for her to walk all over me in my home)-
the whole family told her to fuck off. Shrug.

I think the issue is that metamours really can't make these decisions. Roommates maybe.
A metamour could decide it was toxic for THEM and remove themselves from the situation. But unless you are part of a relationship with someone it's not your place to decide what to do within the realms of that relationship.

In our home-Maca and GG are metamours-but they are also coparents and roommates. As roommates and coparents they can address issues with one another. But neither would deign to comment on the relationship the other has with me. It's not their business.
If either has an issue with something in our relationship-they can renegotiate with me over the details of how we run our dyad. They can TALK to each other about it-but it's not their dyad so it won't do any good.

The same is true with outside of the home relationships. I refused to participate socially with 20s girl. But I didn't tell Maca he couldn't. She was toxic-HE decided she was toxic for him ultimately. But it wasn't my place to make him see that. I saw she was toxic for me and for our children. It was my job to ensure that she was away from us. (we all agreed she was toxic for the kids and we all agreed she couldn't be around them-but it was each of our responsibilities to assess that as coparents anyway).

The best thing to do with a metamour (or any other person) who is toxic for you-is not to participate in socializing with them or hearing about their drama. Ever.
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  #105  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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As for dating someone else who had a toxic partner-there isn't a person on the planet that is worth that effort to me. I wouldn't date them. They need to get their situation in order and make the situation one where dating them is "user-friendly"
It also says something about the person I'm dating. If IV were to hook up with some jerk who I not only don't get along with but he seems to always be stirring up shit and causing drama in my surroundings - what would that say about IV? Anyone who welcomes or even endures that kind of broken dynamic is probably not going to be a healthy partner for me for very long. I've had those gross and dramatic relationships and I just don't have room in my life for it anymore.

So my saying "No thanks, I'll pass" on a relationship with someone who has a toxic partner is not only to avoid the drama myself.. but to avoid dating someone who thinks that kind of drama is reasonable.
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  #106  
Old 07-13-2013, 06:24 PM
london london is offline
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Oh I agree that I wouldn't stay in a relationship with a toxic metamour that my partner didn't acknowledge was causing issues, but people do. I am trying to be empathetic about the thing people say in these situations which is usually "but I love him and love conquers all" or whatever. My advice in most threads is break up if things are that difficult. People say that's unhelpful though.
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  #107  
Old 07-15-2013, 04:25 PM
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naturalblue naturalblue is offline
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It's very easy for some of you to say "if he's in a toxic relationship, don't be in a relationship with him", but he's my husband and I take that commitment very seriously even if some of you apparently don't. I'm not going to divorce him because I don't like his girlfriend, that is ridiculous and unhelpful.

It is also difficult for me to just never see her again as she is already an established part of my social group and she will pretty much always be invited to the same parties/get togethers as I am and I refuse to give up my entire social life/circle because she's a bitch and I won't ask my friends to not invite her.

Case in point, I saw her this weekend at a party at a friend's house. I basically just ignored her and walked away every time she approached me. She's currently in the reconciliation part of an abusers cycle and is trying to get me back on board with her. Unfortunately my husband is right on that band wagon with her, which is something that we fought about. He thinks that because he's over it, I should be too and is trying to rush me into forgiving her so we can all go back to being friends. I understand that he wants it to go back to the way it was when it was not uncomfortable for him, but I don't know if that's going to happen. Right now we're in a stalemate on this, with me ending it by telling him he doesn't get to dictate my emotions or who I decide to interact with and I'll stop being angry when I stop being angry and not one second sooner.

I did set up a new understanding with him that he needs to not tell me when they fight since it makes me angry and he's just going to make up with her anyway, so hopefully that will help in the future.

So, unfortunately this is not something with an easy solution. I'm distancing myself from her as much as possible and creating boundaries between myself and their relationship and I think that's probably all I can do unless someone has another idea. I appreciate all of your input and advice.
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  #108  
Old 07-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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I'm not going to divorce him because I don't like his girlfriend, that is ridiculous and unhelpful.
No one is telling you what to do. You don't like the input you are getting? Don't take it, it's your life - go out and live it. You came here posting up details about your life for discussion so it is being discussed.

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I basically just ignored her and walked away every time she approached me.
The old silent treatment eh? I'm sure that will bring about real and lasting solutions in an adult relationship. I say keep doing that; good things are bound to come of it.
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  #109  
Old 07-15-2013, 05:03 PM
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No one is telling you what to do. You don't like the input you are getting? Don't take it, it's your life - go out and live it. You came here posting up details about your life for discussion so it is being discussed.



The old silent treatment eh? I'm sure that will bring about real and lasting solutions in an adult relationship. I say keep doing that; good things are bound to come of it.
Are you always a jerk? I thought this was supposed to be a community for understanding and advice, not snide comments and belittling. Considering your solution was to break up with my husband, I'm not sure how mine is any less adult. Right now I know that if I were to talk to her, I would not be able to control my emotions and would be very mean - so yes, I do think it is more adult to avoid that until I'm less angry.

I read your responses to other threads as well and frankly I'm beginning to wonder why anyone comes here for advice. All I see you do is tear people down for not going about poly the exact way that you do. And don't worry, I won't be taking any of your advice.
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  #110  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:10 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Are you always a jerk? I thought this was supposed to be a community for understanding and advice, not snide comments and belittling. Considering your solution was to break up with my husband, I'm not sure how mine is any less adult. Right now I know that if I were to talk to her, I would not be able to control my emotions and would be very mean - so yes, I do think it is more adult to avoid that until I'm less angry.

I read your responses to other threads as well and frankly I'm beginning to wonder why anyone comes here for advice. All I see you do is tear people down for not going about poly the exact way that you do. And don't worry, I won't be taking any of your advice.
You can always set someone to ignore. Click on their name -> profile -> Action (I think) -> add to my ignore list

That way you won't see their posts.

Also Just imagine the negative people as a balance. There always has to be that side, its impossible to get rid of. With 25 years experience on bbs's and forums, as an admin/owner/mod.. they are part of the community, as much as they sometimes need to be ignored.

And.. something to consider, one persons negative is another persons realistic. There could be someone reading his posts and gtting a lot out of them. The cynics have their fans sometimes too, even though their posts can sometimes seem like a slap across the face.

As for the post, I haven't read must in this thread, but my take is a bit hard line. When I get involved with someone, I am also getting involved with their partners. Its VERY hard to delineate the two. So.. that said, I don't settle for a crappy metamour. If I have to be involved with someone I don't like, I don't get involved. I have to at the very least be able to tolerate and accept the metamour.. Toxic behaviour is unacceptable.

Besides what does that partner selection tell you about your partner? Thats something else that comes to my mind when a perfectly nice person is with someone toxic. Partner selection skill is important in long term non-monogamy.
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