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  #31  
Old 07-05-2013, 04:22 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Oh, your dream is hilarious. I like that you high-fived your dog when you woke up - that made me smile!

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Originally Posted by kkxvlv View Post
In contrast I had a conversation with Herman recently where he mentioned feeling like he was a disappointment to his parents. He's mentioned this before and I don't get it. Both of his brothers are still living at home in their 30s. The vast majority of his cousins had kids in their teens and are already divorced, broke and often unemployed, how could they really be disappointed in him?
My soon-to-be-ex-husband had similar feelings, which puzzled me, too. Out of a family of almost all civil servants, he got his Masters degree, pursued a professional career, and became very successful in it. Not that there is anything wrong with being a civil servant, but most of his family are rather unambitious and only got government jobs for the pension and benefits, not for any kind of career satisfaction or standing. Meanwhile, he was brilliant at what he did. He would also compare himself to his nephew, who was getting accolades for his work, which is in a creative field but doesn't need much education. He was amazed that the kid knew what he wanted to do with his life already, while my husband was a late bloomer, having earned his degrees and getting into his career while in his late 30s.

We talked about why he felt they were disappointed, and it was simply that they never really acknowledged him verbally. He had led a wild life for a long time, and was basically considered the smart-ass fuck-up in the family, until he cleaned up his act. Then they were hugely proud of him, but not real big on communicating. They would acknowledge him in other ways like asking for his advice on things or referring friends and relatives to him. He's a Leo and thrives on praise, so the fact that his parents didn't actually come out and give him acknowledgement in the way that he wanted it made him feel they were disappointed. Sorta like they had different Love Languages. Thankfully, just before his father died, he told my husband that he loved him and was proud of him. I think that did a lot to heal that part of him that always wanted his father's approval.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 07-05-2013 at 04:28 AM.
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  #32  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:08 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default More weddings

Jasper brought up if I would like to go to his sister's wedding. The two of them are very close. I was pleased he invited me but got the sense he thought it would be better if I didn't come. He said that it wouldn't be the best use (for us) of our visit time and funds. Weddings are high stakes drama and I am inclined to stay out of that and I think its kind of a bummer to have people at your wedding that you barely know. On the other hand I would like to be there with him for important stuff and the best use of visit things don't bother me because it is for important stuff. I think I would be sad if he took someone else. I guess I might also be sad if years from now I'm closer with his family and in retrospect it seems like I just didn't bother to go to this important thing or if they do think of me as his girlfriend and feel bad for him that I'm not around for things like this. I'm not trying to push anything on him but he seemed like he was trying to feel me out on the issue and I didn't know the right way to react. He remembers my lack of incorporation into his local life has been a sore spot for me in the past and I worry he is only mentioning it at all for my benefit. His family knew of me when we were "just friends" and have always known I am married. He has mentioned to me that at some point he did tell his immediate family we were in a relationship and if I remember correctly they were mostly just worried he'd get hurt. Knowing what I know of his mother and sister I'm sort of surprised he hasn't taken more grief about it. I attended last Christmas with his family which was the first time I'd met them and they were very nice and welcoming and it was only a normal amount of awkward. I'd hate for her wedding to be the day people start asking questions though. Her fiance's family is extremely conservative and I have a feeling she's going to have her hands full with some of her existing family members already and maybe doesn't need her brother's married girlfriend there on top of it. I don't know...
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:30 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Just my two cents...

If you have any qualms about attending - then don't. I'm of the opinion that a wedding should be all about the people getting married. If you are NOT particularly close the the bride/groom and your presence might be any sort of distraction - I'd stay away, unless it is really super important TO HIM that you attend (which it doesn't sound like it is). Thank him for asking you then stick to more "family focused" events (holidays, etc.) until you are absolutely comfortable. (Then, again, I am not a big fan of attending other people's weddings in the first place - so I'd be looking for an "out" anyway.)

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  #34  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:35 AM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default What a lousy day

I've already made one terrible decision this week so maybe now is not the best time but...

I've come to realize I want a deeper emotional connection to someone than either of these men are willing/capable of/desiring to give to me at this time. I know I am unlikely to find it elsewhere given that I'm not willing/capable of/desiring to put in the effort in building the other aspects of a relationship that would include that emotional connection nor would my current state be attractive to anyone new. That leaves me with the option of continuing to be unfulfilled and unhappy or perhaps working towards greater independence and self reliance. I am resistant that option because it feels so sad to me. I value those things but I have always exempted romantic relationships from those ideas. Of course that makes no sense. I call them partners because that is what I wanted. I will continue my relationships because I do value them and I am happy about what we share. I believe what we do have is worth having eventhough it doesn't meet my ideal. I have only ever thought of sucessful romantic relationships as being one set of things and emotionally fulfilling was certainly one of them. I'm not sure I am able to apply another point of view to my own life. I'm not sure I can be enough for myself either.
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  #35  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:12 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default Updates on myself later I suppose

Wow things have changed around here, people leaving, relationships collapsing, long time polys going mono, people putting relationships on hold completely. One of the reasons I joined the forum was because it was so great to see it working for someone! Its getting a little scary around here.

My favorite thing about this forum now is how much I've learned about myself in thinking about advice I would give to others. I don't actually post too often but its so easy to rattle off what you think right away when it's someone else's problem. It's funny how much harder it is to see things that way when it is my own problem. I am so thankful for that insight into myself. I wish I had more time to collect that stuff here.

A big theme in my reactions over and over is don't live based in fear. In every other facet of life I hate the idea of sacrificing freedom for safety and it is so easy for me to recognize these sacrifices never actually result in safety. Of course I want to value freedom as highly in my relationships.

This has become so clear to me now. The other day a friend posted a picture of locks on a bridge in Paris and was explaining to someone else how couples put them there as a symbol of their love and my immediate reaction was EW! A lock is the LAST symbol of love I would choose. Another just posted a quote about cherishing moments and people in your life because you never know when it will be your last. Uhh.. how about cherishing them for reasons that aren't being afraid. You know like... because you enjoy life and you like those people! Not because you might lose it. Ugh!

The amount of insecurity problems raised here has taught me to realize no one is secure. It seems ridiculous how hard people rail against the insecurity caused by non-monogamy. If you actually bother to notice, monogamy doesn't offer security either. Nor does marriage. People can and will leave you at any moment for any reason. if you consider the love of another person a threat, monogamy is what dictates the likelihood of that "threat" resulting in your partner leaving you.

Polyamory is how the love of another person means I don't have to leave you.

I don't think that means polyamory provides security, nothing does that. I don't even think that makes polyamory better because it isn't important if you don't want to love more than one person. That is where I feel polyamory is a "wired" issue. I don't see it as believing it does or doesn't work, that it is right or wrong, better or worse, you just either feel it or you don't. It chose me, I chose to act on it. I still don't believe everyone is or everyone has the potential to be. I believe some people are monoamorous, choose monogamy for that, not for security.
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2013, 08:16 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default Maybe Marriage Isn't For Me

Recently I clicked on this article titled "Marriage Isn't For Me" the teaser below it said something like "but wait, keep reading, it's not as bad as you think!" as if someone deciding they didn't want marriage had resulted in shock and horror.

The article was even worse. Basically the moral is people shouldn't get married for themselves, they should do it for the happiness of their spouse, future children, and family. This reminded me of Herman's claims that he is selfish.

I read a few posts by Marcus that have really stuck with me for some time now. One that really got me was a time he was questioning why he would want someone to spend time with him (or do anything for him) that she didn't want to do herself? Would you REALLY want someone to spend time with you because you asked or because you deserve it or because its fair or because she has some kind of commitment to you or for literally any other reason besides them wanting to spend time with you?

My mind wants to answer that question no. I don't want my husband to wake up and spend another day with me because he made a commitment to do so or even because he loves me and that means he wants ME to be happy. I want him to do it because that is what he wanted that day. Of course I am often afraid and want for security but I don't want it more than I want freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Yeah individual happiness. Herman always says, "if it doesn't make you happy don't do it."

So I read something like this article and I see the floweriness of it. Oh you make a decision to care for the happiness of someone else more than your own, and yes I agree maybe that should apply to your children. Thats why I don't have any. But I don't feel the need to surrender my life to anyone else. If that makes me a horrible person to most, I'm not sure I care. I understand how a lot of people could say that makes me incapable of love but I just don't see it that way.

I am much more comfortable with Herman's idea of caring for others. Unlike the guy in the article, he doesn't live to make me smile, he makes me smile because that brings him joy. Even when one gives love "selflessly" in bad times (again such as this article.) I prefer to see it as a personal choice made and not an act "of love" that one just does BECAUSE they love and that's what LOVE means. Yes I think love means you want to make someone else happy, but that is because doing so makes you happy. This is the very reason Herman calls himself selfish.

I think its a bummer that people live their lives having personal philosphy given to them and not figuring it out for themselves. I feel kinda bad it took me so long to understand his take on selfishness. I hope working on a personal philosphy of my own reminds me to live more often as the person I'd like to be.
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2014, 02:34 AM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Make better decisions for myself, by myself.
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  #38  
Old 12-26-2014, 05:29 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default Pity Party

Every Christmas seems a little more depressing to me but this one takes the cake. I want a place to throw a pity party for myself and I don't have anywhere else to say anything so awful, so here it is. 2 weeks ago I found my husband laying in the back yard surrounded in blood and vomit, awake but totally unaware of anything. To make a long story short it turns out he fell off a latter, and other than a wrist broken in 5 places, he's going to be fine.

The 24 hours before he started speaking again were my worst nightmare and then slowly over the next 2 weeks reality set in. I haven't been to a doctor appointment or filled a prescription in my adult life. I am completely unequipped for this. He and I are so introverted that we have been struggling greatly in the medical environment. In the hospital I noticed he was always telling the nurses he didn't hurt. When I pushed him for a pain number he said 4 of 10. After his wrist surgery he hurt "a little" and that was really an 8 of 10, it was a 10 and he was screaming before we managed to get across to someone that he needed medication. Shortly after that during our second night in the hospital I realized not only hadn't I slept, but I also hadn't had anything to drink since I found him.

His wrist isn't healing correctly and he will need a second surgery. It was nearly impossible to find a surgeon the week of Christmas and now we are crossing our fingers that it will happen on Tuesday the 30th or else we'll be paying a second coinsurance maximum for the year of 2015.

He won't be able to work for at least 3 months and will probably be fired anyway for stopping by the house that day. I don't know how I am going to carry all the regular bills, and the medical bills and take time off for his appointments.

We'd been travelling nearly every weekend this year and had spent so little time at home that we hadn't been keeping house or cooking for ourselves. Now I have to deal with all of that mess alone and help him with literally everything.

I know ultimately the situation is not that bad. He lived, his head is fine, he didn't break or injure anything else. He remembers who he is! We have pretty good insurance, I have a job. It just doesn't seem to make me feel any better.

I am exhausted and terrified. As the days have gone by I'm starting to get angry about the whole thing. What seems like a bizarre accident totally fits with Herman's personality. He gets some weird idea to do something and he has to do it right then, and heaven forbid you question the logic behind why it must be done this minute or the method and he will just throw his hands up and refuse to do anything. That is exactly why he went home in the middle of his work day to do it alone. He's just not very careful, I see it all the time and I'm really not surprised that eventually something went wrong and it makes me angry. He still hasn't learned either, he knows not to go up a latter alone now. That hasn't stopped him from trying to pour boiling water with his one left hand. Over the last 15 years I learned to ignore this behavior because it pissed me off and I didn't want to fight about it but now I've had enough. The pain medication is giving him this "whatever" attitude that I've grown very tired of as well. We can't find a surgeon to operate the week of christmas whatever, he might lose his job whatever, he never thought of christmas presents for his parents so now he wants me to go out shopping for them at the last minute no big deal, our old dog is looking like he is starting to suffer and will probably need to be put down soon whatever. I can tell its the meds but damn its annoying.

Jasper offered to come down as soon as it happened but I asked him to wait until we knew more. He has been very emotionally supportive for me but is dealing with a ton of issues at his work so I try to add as little additional stress as possible for him. We haven't had much time to talk but it has been dominated by football. This is the exact time of year I would be exhausted of football anyway but due to the current circumstances I could not give less of a fuck about all the scenarios he needs to happen so his team gets homefield advantage and therefore he can spend a whole crap ton of money going to a playoff game. Then a couple days ago he tells me he finally heard what "the band" is doing for new years and though he had no intention of going, NOW he wants to. So yeah, I doubt I will see him again before February. To add additional insult, he'll be coming to my state to see them and not me. I know he'd figure out how to come to me and help me with the house and stuff while Herman is recovering a second time but I can't ask him. We should have had plans for the holidays anyway but as usual they never got made and I am certain its somehow my fault despite me making it extremely clear that the ball was in his court long before the accident. I feel bad enough about competing for his attention with sports teams and rock bands, I certainly can't stomach the idea of being an obligation keeping him from having fun. Jasper has never really been in a long term relationship that involved sharing responsibilities with anyone else. Therefore he's never really understood "partnership" the way I would define it. I don't blame him for this but its been an ongoing issue that makes me unhappy which has been magnified by my having a real need for additional help for the first time. We've been through a lot of other crap with that issue this year. Little things like him deciding to buy a house over 1000 miles from me without feeling the need to discuss it with me at all.

I miss the sun and being outside. I won't get to see the snow this year, or ice skate, or soak in any of my favorite hot springs. I won't get to see any of my friends for New Years. I miss sugar a lot. I miss sex a lot. I miss getting take out. I miss Jasper and that is going to get a lot worse because we've just hit 4 weeks since I saw him which is the normal amount I can handle. I miss Christmas. I miss 2 armed hugs. I miss laying down for a few minutes after work. I miss someone else feeding the dogs so I don't have to smell their food. I miss riding in the passenger seat of the car.

I guess I've learned I'm a spoiled brat and that makes me feel like crap about myself.
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  #39  
Old 12-27-2014, 07:39 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkxvlv View Post
To make a long story short it turns out he fell off a latter, and other than a wrist broken in 5 places, he's going to be fine.
BTDT. About 11 years ago, my husband fell off a ladder 3 days before Christmas. Actually, the ladder slipped out from beneath him (the driveway, was sloped and had oil on it ) and it shattered his wrist. Both my LITTLE kids were still on the roof when he fell. They are still freaked about climbing on the roof and they are 18/15 now. Luckily he didn't hit his head, but he did have to wait for me to get home and he drove himself to the ER. If I had seen it before he left, there's no way I would have let him drive himself.

He went into surgery on Christmas Eve and doped up on very strong pain meds all of Christmas Day. He was off work for 3 months and paying for the health insurance on one salary, which was brutal. When he got back to work, they had changed his position.

I completely understand the being angry and disappointed knowing the "accident" could have been avoided if he had just paid a little more attention to things.
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  #40  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:22 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Default Happy New Year

As I had already guessed, Herman was not scheduled for surgery on the 30th. The new surgeon didn't seem to think much more could be done for him. He ordered more scans. So I am guessing he'll decide sometime this week he does want to do surgery and we'll be behind 3 or 4 weeks of recovery time and another $5000. Hopefully he just won't need surgery though.

I couldn't stand Jasper being only 300 miles away and not seeing him for New Years. We've only spent one apart in the last 9 years and I really didn't think we'd see each other before february otherwise. I survived the first day and then one of our mutual friends posted a picture of them both on facebook and his smile was so beautiful and I just couldn't take it. So I tried to get as much advance things ready for Herman as I could and planned to leave him home for 36 hours while I drove there and back to see Jasper for 1 night.

When we woke up in the morning and went to my truck which was parked in a garage, I found it with 3 busted out windows. Nothing at all was taken. It didn't even look like they went through any of my clothes bag or camping stuff that was in there. Probably just someones idea of fun. So instead of spending a short day with Jasper, I spent the day filing reports and trying to tape the windows up enough to drive 300 miles home. The drive took 9 hours or something with stopping all the time and limited speed. I got home at 3 am and had to be up for Herman at 7. So I'm having a really awesome new year.

Everyone is upset and blaming themselves which sucks. Jasper finally realized on his own that it was sort of mean that he chose to go there instead of come to see us and put me in the position of going through all that (minus the car thing) or not seeing him at all. But thats what he does, he feels guilty after instead of thinking about it before hand. This exact thing went on a least a half dozen times during 2014. He chose to do something else, swore it wouldn't affect our visits and then it ALWAYS did and we'd fight about it. He said I should have told him I was upset about it. But actually I did tell him how upset I was that we didn't have plans for the holidays right after my last post. During that conversation as predicted he did blame me for us not having plans and he pushed me to come up there and wasn't nearly understanding enough about how much I had to go through to make that happen. I dropped the discussion instead of getting in a fight about it. Before I left yesterday he wanted to know what he could do for me and I told him we just need to fix the problem of scheduling visits that is making them not happen. He said he would do better but thats what he does. No real idea of what he will do to fix it. I guess he felt it was my job to just fight about it until something gets done. I'm just too tired for that.
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