Ex boyfriend's wife doesn't want to share space

AlbertaBea

New member
Hi Everyone. I'm Alberta and I'm writing about my on-again-off-again lover and friend, Tommy. I'm also writing about Tommy's wife, Jordan. Tommy and I broke up two months ago because Jordan was having a lot of trouble being okay with our relationship.

Since we broke up, Jordan has expressed frustration at "sharing space" with me. Jordan and I have 65 mutual friends on Facebook and we have many opportunities to share space. She has asked me before not to come to a party out of consideration for her, and when she felt "too intimidated" to ask me not to go to another party, she got Tommy to ask me. I lashed out at him :-/

So, that's the background story. Here's what I'm having some anxiety about now:

I want to go to a campout. It's a big event, taking place on a friend's private estate. I've been invited by numerous people. Jordan, along with at least two dozen other people, has been attending meetings to work through the planning stages of this campout. I've told Tommy that I was thinking about going for a day, but now I'm lonely (I wound up staying home from the party Tommy talked to me about) and most of my favorite people will be at the upcoming campout.

I miss my people. I'm going to this campout because I have the days off and I've been working every day since June 8th. I feel very strongly that I cannot let Jordan's feelings disrupt my social life. She has shown me repeatedly that she will not offer me the same considerations she demands from me - that's why I broke up with her husband. She doesn't have to talk to me when she sees me and I have no intention of approaching her.
 
Go to the camp-out and just do your best to not be around where Tommy or his wife are. She (and he for that matter) have no right to try and cut you out from your friends or your social life jut because she doesn't want you there. If she doesn't want to be around you she can avoid go towards you at parties or not attend them just as easily as you can.
 
Fist thing I would want to do in your situation is to make damn sure I know what my motivations are. Going to the camp out, for example, you said you're feeling lonely and want to go socialize with your friends; that sounds like good motivation. However, is there any *other* motivation? Are you feeling territorial or vengeful?

I am not saying that you are having these feelings it's just that, for me I would want to very closely examine my side of the street before I started telling someone to mind their own business.

If she doesn't want to be around you she can avoid go towards you at parties or not attend them just as easily as you can.

This chick can go have a nice tall glass of "grow up" as far as I'm concerned. Once you really are sure about your clean motivations there is just no reason to throw yourself under the bus of honorable sacrifice. Cattiva said it, this chick can elect not to go just as easily as you can... let her take a turn and serve her own insecurities for a change - sounds like she needs the practice...
 
Savage sage advice

AB,

Dan Savage of The Stranger's LoveCast has a lot to say on this so although it's usually directed more to LGBT people/relationships it fits here as well.

To use his general thoughts: Communities are small worlds and poly is definitely a small world. Even from the rather large metro area I live in the poly community seems almost like a soap opera at times (excuse me 'daytime drama', lol), lots of switching of partners and dramas and, like you're situation; I don't want to remember you're alive type people.

As Dan Savage says, since we're all part of that community and its small, it isn't fair to 'ex-communicate' someone from it (without serious cause). His suggestion is rather than completely avoid the person you acknowledge them and the situation. If/when you run into the person you state out loud about the awkwardness. "whoa, this is awkward. Know its tough but we have friends in common so we may as well make the best of the situation. Let's just try to make it easier on both of us...."

Or some such, Dan said it much more eloquently I'm sure but you get the gist. She has no right to ex-communicate you from the same small community you both are a part of. We alternative lifestyle people need to try to remember its can be challenging for us all and help each other out.

And she always has the option of staying home;)

(I also really appreciate how Dan advised if anyone makes you choose between friends b/c they're upset about what a person did; he'd choose the one that didn't make him choose:))
 
Is Dan Savage the new Franklin Veaux?
 
Thanks for the replies CG, Marcus and Delphinius.

... is there any *other* motivation? Are you feeling territorial or vengeful?

I am not saying that you are having these feelings it's just that, for me I would want to very closely examine my side of the street before I started telling someone to mind their own business.

I have been considering my motivations a bit. I am still hurt/angry about staying in the other night. I'm feeling accepting of the consequences that my going to the campout may have on my relationship with Tommy. I am feeling a bit territorial of my friends. I could see myself feeling lonely at the campout if, for example, Jordan is talking to someone I want to talk to. There will be times there that I'll be uncomfortable, but I've been in those situations before. If you date everyone at the party, you're bound to have some awkwardness there!

I'm so isolated and lonely because of my job and location, I need to take this time to see my friends. Tonight I'm asking a close friend if she'll camp with me and be my moral support if anything shitty goes down. I'm gonna try and camp out of sight from Jordan and Tommy and I'll DEFINITELY not be talking to anyone at the campout about the situation.

She has no right to ex-communicate you from the same small community you both are a part of. We alternative lifestyle people need to try to remember its can be challenging for us all and help each other out.

I agree with you. Jordan is newer in the community and I've had a few friends express willingness to stop inviting her to stuff. I asked them not to do this because I believe that Jordan has the right to pull support from our amazing community just as much as I do. My experience with her is in a unique context and doesn't have anything to do with how our mutual friends will experience her friendship.

So far, she hasn't tried to exclude me in indirect ways - which I'm grateful for. I don't think she could ex-communicate me if she tried. People only get excommunicated from our scene for violence and I've put about 10 years of energy into building my alternative friend circle. Jordan is just laying the foundation of her role in the community and I doubt any of my friends would accommodate her by not inviting me. Having heard her arguments against me straight from her, I know how ridiculous her reasoning on this topic sounds - and I know how reasonable our friends are :p

It would be great if we just got along!
 
Sounds like high school drama to me.

Who the frick cares what she wants. Stop letting others have control over your life.
 
Sounds like high school drama to me.

Who the frick cares what she wants. Stop letting others have control over your life.

I was just about to say the same thing. (this might be interpreted as "dogpiling" or "ganging up" on the "newbie" but all it is is two or more people who agree. #preempt #tiredofbeinglecturedforthesakeofwank)

You are giving this person way too much power. She made her husband break up with you; she is not someone you need to consider. You do not gain anything by walking on eggshells around her.

So, she might be talking to someone you want to talk to. She going to talk to that person all night? If yes, then that person must be really into her, and probably wouldn't be into you quite so much anyway. Talk to someone else instead. She can't be in more than one place at a time. If this is a "big campout event" and you have been invited by "multiple people", I fail to recognize the dilemma. It isn't like it's someone's wedding and you're both asked to be brides-maids or something.

It's been my experience that when I have wanted to avoid someone, and I choose to attend an event at which that individual will be present, it usually turns out that the person I want to avoid is equally or more determined to avoid ME, and I don't have to do anything I wouldn't ordinarily do anyway.
 
No idea why you've let this woman control your life.
 
You are giving this person way too much power. She made her husband break up with you; she is not someone you need to consider. You do not gain anything by walking on eggshells around her.

I don't see it like that. She did have a role in why we broke up, but she didn't make anyone do anything - we're all accountable for our actions. As such, I may not need to be considerate of her, but I can be considerate of her in all the ways I'm considerate of everyone (when I'm not wrapped up in my own shit). Like it or not, our spirits have crossed paths and we've encountered each other and we'll never forget each other. I'm writing the memories I'll look back on in fifty years, so why shouldn't I be considerate of that by not being a jerk to everyone I disagree with? I want to be proud of my history.

She doesn't take disappointment well and I don't walk on eggshells around her. She does not have any control over me. I won't accommodate her and that's the source of our drama. I'm not inflexible about much so it's a big deal for me to maintain the boundary of "you don't get to tell me what to do" by being uncompromising.

So, she might be talking to someone you want to talk to. She going to talk to that person all night? If yes, then that person must be really into her, and probably wouldn't be into you quite so much anyway. Talk to someone else instead. She can't be in more than one place at a time. If this is a "big campout event" and you have been invited by "multiple people", I fail to recognize the dilemma. It isn't like it's someone's wedding and you're both asked to be brides-maids or something.

It's been my experience that when I have wanted to avoid someone, and I choose to attend an event at which that individual will be present, it usually turns out that the person I want to avoid is equally or more determined to avoid ME, and I don't have to do anything I wouldn't ordinarily do anyway.

I already made up my mind to go. I want to manage the situation gracefully. I have some anxiety about potential drama and with good reason in this case.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, but I have to say I can see why you may be #anxiousaboutgettinglectured. I felt defensive responding to you. That first paragraph about ganging up on the newbie introduced your reply as a condescending criticism. It's like when a person says, "No offense, but...[you're fat.], [you have no ears.], [etc.]." I'm not looking for a flame war, I just want you to know how your tone came off to me so you can consider reframing the #tiredofbeinglectured issue you wrote about.
 
She does not have any control over me. She doesn't take disappointment well and I don't walk on eggshells around her. I won't accommodate her and that's the source of our drama.

Tommy and I broke up two months ago because Jordan was having a lot of trouble being okay with our relationship.

I understood this to mean that she vetoed or somehow otherwise influenced him to break up with you.

But then it says

that's why I broke up with her husband.

which i did not notice before because it's buried way at the bottom of that post.




I already made up my mind to go. I want to manage the situation gracefully. I have some anxiety about potential drama and with good reason in this case.


I appreciate you sharing your experience, but I have to say I can see why you may be #anxiousaboutgettinglectured

I am not "anxious" about getting lectured. I am WEARY of being lectured. Or rather, I am weary of the lecturing about manners and aesthetics. You are "anxious", you say so at least twice. I am chilling.


I felt defensive responding to you.

You are allowed to feel that way. One of the things that is discussed often on this forum is how we are all responsible for our feelings, no one can "make" someone feel a certain way (in some extreme cases such as domestic abuse I guess it's possible, but there are other factors at play and those situations don't go from zero to 200 in one day), and we can't control what others feel. So I can't and won't try to say something that will make you "feel better" now. Let's review:

First, Dagferi writes:

Sounds like high school drama to me.

Who the frick cares what she wants. Stop letting others have control over your life.

I was just about to say the same thing. (this might be interpreted as "dogpiling" or "ganging up" on the "newbie" but all it is is two or more people who agree. #preempt #tiredofbeinglecturedforthesakeofwank)

OP said:
That first paragraph about ganging up on the newbie framed your message as a condescending criticism.

No, I'm afraid it did not. That was your sensibilities and thought processes that "framed" my post as "condescending criticism". In other threads, there have been times when people have responded to posts by saying "Me too" or "This" or in some similar way, simply agreeing with what has already been said. Then someone will decide that there is some organized conspiracy to flush the OP or whoever off the face of the internet. Nothing could be further from the truth. There isn't ANYTHING in that first "disclaimer" part of that post that fits the definition of "condescending" OR "criticism". If anything, it fits the definition of "paranoid". As I indicated, I do feel WEARY of this; "paranoid" is for the helicopters and drones that are spying on me.


It's like when a person says, "No offense, but...[you're fat.], [you have no ears.], [etc.]."

I fail to see how "it" is "like" pointing out that you are fat and have no ears. How is a statement that basically says "I don't want to be accused of ganging up on the OP just because I agree with the previous post" get read as, "No offense, but you're [whatever]." I agree about the "No offense", pretty much what I was saying was that if any offense is taken, it was not intended. Yes, it just occurred to me that I could have say "If I offend you, it's not my intention", but wouldn't you have complained about that, too? I mean, you JUST said that "It's like when a person says "no offense..."", so that's not okay with you either? I can't say anything that pre-empts "perceived hostility", can I?


The rest of my post is pretty dry and on-topic, except perhaps for the fact that I made some mistakes understanding some specific details. You corrected me, i stand corrected, let's move past it.






I'm not looking for a flame war, I just want you to know how your tone came off to me so you can address the #tiredofbeinglectured issue you wrote about.

I am going to address that issue I wrote about right now:

What I actually wrote was #tiredofbeinglecturedforthesakeofwank. "Wank" is my shorthand for when people would rather argue about the aesthetic nuances of a person's post rather than content or merit. See, your "tone" right there came across to ME just now as condescending and critical:

"I'm not looking for a flame war" = no offense, but...

"I just want you to know how your tone came off to me so you can address the #tiredofbeinglectured issue you wrote about" = you're fat and you have no ears

(The other one that sees a lot of action is "I'm sorry you're offended/upset/disturbed/etc." Use the word "Apologize" instead: "I apologize for the inconvenience" sounds better than "I'm sorry you're inconvenienced". If a person needs to resort to that, maybe better off just not saying anything.)

Last but not least - why do you fixate on MY post, which contains a pre-emptive disclaimer, but you say nothing of the sort about Dagferi's post, which has NO "hostility disclaimer" and refers to your thing as "high school drama" and says "who the frick" and "stop letting her have control over you". I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Dagferi's "tone" and mine. I just expanded on her thoughts with some anecdotal details of my own. My post does not merit reprimand.

In conclusion, i have here yet another example of why I don't like being around people. It's exhausting and nothing is ever good enough for them. Really, the only reason I bothered to write this whole response was as an exercise in self-awareness. I expect that those who know this know damn well, and those who don't know cannot tell. In other words, if you already get what i mean, i don't need to explain; if you don't get it already, nothing I can say will make you get it. This is why I gravitate toward people who communicate in a similar fashion. I have no expectation that everyone will appreciate the way every other person communicates. And I don't project "hostility" onto other people's posts just because they come across assertively.

This has used up all my internet juice for the evening, and then some, but overall I am pleased with it, even if no one else is.
 
After all that, I only now realized something. You don't even ask any QUESTIONS in your original post. You say you are "having some anxiety" and "here's the background story". So, what can we do to help you with your anxiety problem? Have you tried yoga? That's what people always say to me. People act like yoga is the answer to everything.
 
I'll DEFINITELY not be talking to anyone at the campout about the situation.

To piggy-back on something Delphinius said:

When my last girlfriend and I broke up it was not pretty. We had a group of friends in common but since I had met them through her I figured I was going to need to lose contact with them. A couple of weeks past and I realized I was still getting invites from them but she apparently wasn't. Come to find out, there was some drama with her and she stormed out of that group of friends... so I guess I got them instead.

Anyway, the first big social gathering I had with these folks there was a lot of curiosity about what had happened. I never got the whole story on her drama bomb with them and never asked. But when people asked me "So what happened between you two?" my instinct was to tell them that I didn't want to talk about it. Unfortunately that just seemed to build tension.

So I started answering their question as appropriately and honestly as I could. My answer became "You know, the relationship had run its course so it ended" and didn't add in any of my emotional commentary. I found that this diffused the curiosity, made the topic pretty boring, and it was dropped.

All I'm saying is that I agree you shouldn't bring it up and you SURELY shouldn't do any complaining, but giving the silent treatment on a topic will just make it look like more of a sore.
 
...what Marcus said, and another way of putting it is to say, "i am trying to move past this and would rather focus on enjoying myself at this event, rather than making this all about me. Maybe i could tell you my side of the story another time."
 
No offense but...

(sorry-I just couldn't resist writing that-input a little humor).


Go the party, be on your best behavior. Don't be vindictive, don't be a bitch. Just enjoy your time, leave space for her to enjoy hers.


Side note-
I did walk out of our local poly community after someone my husband dated made a point of attending EVERY event I PLANNED. Including trying to attend events IN MY HOME.
THAT was rude. It is a small community-but as I didn't attend events I wasn't personally planning-and there are many who plan there own-there was no reason she needed to attend the events I planned. That was vindictive on her part-attempting to make it so that I had no ability to partiicpate without her in my face.

So be wary of your choices and your decisions. There is a fine line between sharing the group of joint friends-and making it impossible for someone else to enjoy the shared friends without you being in the middle of it like a possessive spouse.
 
...what Marcus said, and another way of putting it is to say, "i am trying to move past this and would rather focus on enjoying myself at this event, rather than making this all about me. Maybe i could tell you my side of the story another time."

This is definitely something I will try to keep in mind. Jordan messaged me on Facebook:

Tuesday

6:38pm
Jordan
Hey, I see you're coming to Chillits. I just wanna say that I want peace with you, and I have no intention of fighting or being cold to you, but I'm also not really feeling ready to casually socialize. I hope we can both have fun and relax this weekend. Is there anything I can do to help make your weekend more comfortable?

6:39pm
Alberta
No, that sounds good to me! I appreciate the olive branch and am looking forward to a chill weekend.

6:42pm
Jordan
Cool, see you there

This message from Jordan gives me a warm feeling to read. Reflecting on past messages from her in the same vein, and on the way things have played out, I'd like to keep my distance from her. I mean, who knows what casually socialize means. Is she going to approach me on the dancefloor to talk about her feelings? If so, I want to keep your feedback here in mind BoringGuy. "I want to focus on relaxing, and not make the weekend about myself. Can I give you my perspective on things another time?"
 
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All I'm saying is that I agree you shouldn't bring it up and you SURELY shouldn't do any complaining, but giving the silent treatment on a topic will just make it look like more of a sore.

Well, it is a sore for all of us who were involved. We're all trying to move on. Not many of our friends were aware of the situation so it's realistic for me to hope no one will ask for details.

She totally sent me a message yesterday. I posted the text in a response to Boring Guy.
 
That was vindictive on her part-attempting to make it so that I had no ability to participate without her in my face.

So be wary of your choices and your decisions. There is a fine line between sharing the group of joint friends-and making it impossible for someone else to enjoy the shared friends without you being in the middle of it like a possessive spouse.

I would have reacted very differently to this scenario. First off, I would never be able to walk away from my community because they embrace someone I dislike. I can and have compromised for this cause many times and it always pays off (sometimes it takes a few years).

Secondly, I think it would be more vindictive to shun the person I am jealous of for my feelings of insecurity. I would get mad at my partner if their behavior made me uncomfortable with the person in question. But, I don't know your whole story and the context may be different.
 
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