Theoretical vs reality

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

This is why I prefer to talk about making choices that honor your values rather than absolutes of "right" and "wrong". Sometimes we do things that line up with our values, other times we don't. Ideally, we lean more towards our values rather than away. Ideally, those values would involve respect and care for the people and life around them, but this can't always be the case, alas.

This is nice Ceoli.
And I would add to that that these 'values' are in a constant state of evolution. (hopefully)
I often get a little 'skin crawl' whenever I see that term used because it dredges up connotations of religion & dogma. And we all know where THAT has gotten the human race.
It's important that the most true understanding of the term I've come across so far explains human 'values' as shortcut tools our brain uses to give us guidance in our decision making process when time for a full analysis is not available. We're forced to 'shoot from the hip'. Tools.
It's (hopefully) afterward that we can go back and fully analyze whether that 'tool' steered us in the right direction or not. And if not - the 'value' is adjusted accordingly.
So our 'values' are based on our level of knowledge & experience at the point said value is adopted. But life moves on - and we have to move with it. As we learn more and experience more - we become more.

GS

[LovingRadiance]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

Human beings have a tendency to not learn from the mistakes of others. We have a sick need to experience e the results of shitty decisions for ourselves.

My dad calls this the need to "piss on the electric fence".

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

My dad calls this the need to "piss on the electric fence".

No substitute for 'farm' wisdom

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

My dad calls this the need to "piss on the electric fence".

I did that too

[quila]

For me, this question can be divided into two issues:
1. Is it unethical to become involved with someone who is cheating on their partner.
2. Is it wise to be come involved with such a person.

I'll start with the second question, because it's easier. I tend to agree with the others who have said that if they're lying to their spouse about something that big, they're probably inclined to lie about a lot of things. So if you intend to become romantically involved with such a person, you're probably lining yourself up for lies and heartache down the road. So for that reason, I would not allow myself to knowingly fall in love with a cheater.

As for the ethics, I have a hard enough time doing the right thing for myself without being responsible for the decisions of others. It would be against my moral compas to actively pursue someone who's in a monogamous relationship, for fear of actually causing the cheating. But if they were to pursue me, I would not stop them on the basis of their other relationship. I would encourage them to be upfront with their partner and talk to them about polyamory, but I wouldn't make the decision for them.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by quila

But if they were to pursue me, I would not stop them on the basis of their other relationship. I would encourage them to be upfront with their partner and talk to them about polyamory, but I wouldn't make the decision for them.

Not trying to be confrontational but for my own clarity...you would be willing to engage in an affair? I only ask this because I had an affair in a previous relationship. We were both married and what we did was probably the most selfish thing I can imagine. We hurt each others partners incredibly deep and damaged ourselves more than I thought possible.
I'm couldn't be involved in that type of damaging situation again.

The only way I wouldn't see "passive encouragement" as not being an affair is if you actually sidestepped a hesitant person who you were being pursued by and spoke to their partner about the relationship and what it meant.

Otherwise it's just another affair,....there's no difference between poly or mono when it comes to deceiving people.

[classycaveman]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

We've always struggled with this from an ethical perspective but yet there's pieces of all of us that acknowledge that these connections were real and important and that in reality (as long as it stayed under the radar) it was highly beneficial to everyone. The 3rd party was happier & more fulfilled and therefore their home life was actually better that it was prior, when there was stress from lack of fulfillment etc.

There is a principle, called harm reduction often used in treating drug addiction and other high risk behaviours, which basically accepts the reality that people are going to do bad things in dangerous ways if we don't give them a safe way to do them. So, they are given a safe way to do them. Teenagers are given free condoms (I'm not against teens having sex, but I think that even people who are tend to approve of this practice.). Heroin addicts are given clean needles. It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than doing nothing.

So if we accept that the person the cheater is cheating with isn't actually responsible for causing the cheater to cheat, and that the odds are that he/she was going to cheat with someone no matter what GS did, and we know that the home life has gotten better since the affair started, then what GS has been doing is actually a form of harm reduction. If the cheater had gotten involved with someone who had no respect for their partner and their relationship, who wanted to try and take them away from that relationship, things could have turned out much worse.

For all we know, GS has been saving marriages.

I'm not saying it's ok to go after married people just to try to fix their marriages, but if you can reduce harm in the life of someone who is hurting, why not?

Another point is something that was mentioned by someone else already but I can't remember who... The fact that some relationships only function with a certain level of "don't ask, don't tell" in them. And some people prefer to leave it at that. My deeply Christian parents (who I'm living with presently while I'm back in school) recently found out that I'd had casual sex with a woman. Before it had a chance to become a full-blown confrontation about my lack of values, I offered my dad two options: openness without judgement, or "don't ask, don't tell." He never got back to me on the subject, which saddens me, but I understand. It would break my mom's heart to know everything I believe about relationships. And she's not a critical thinker so it would be very difficult for her to even make sense of it. My point as this relates to partners is that although we get to choose our partners, some choices are better than others. Not everyone chooses someone that complements them. Some partners are very dependent and fragile. If my dad ever cheated I would hope that he would keep it hidden, for my mom's sake. That may elicit gag reflexes from a lot of you, but you don't know my mom. She wouldn't make it on her own.

Lastly, having sex with someone who is cheating on their SO feels really good. Getting head from a girl while driving her boyfriend's brand new Audi through downtown in broad daylight is even better. The hedonist in me can't ignore that fact. I think people should avoid cheating, but if she's going to do it anyways, I might as well enjoy it.

[NeonKaos]

Originally Posted by classycaveman

Lastly, having sex with someone who is cheating on their SO feels really good. Getting head from a girl while driving her boyfriend's brand new Audi through downtown in broad daylight is even better. The hedonist in me can't ignore that fact. I think people should avoid cheating, but if she's going to do it anyways, I might as well enjoy it.

Whatever works for you, Caveman.

[classycaveman]