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  #481  
Old 06-16-2013, 06:39 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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I think you are wise to practice full disclosure proactively. I am glad your weekend has gone so well.
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  #482  
Old 06-23-2013, 04:50 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good morning.

The past week has been a consistent high. We spent Wednesday night in Tunbridge Wells. We drove down after work. We had dinner at a cute, cosy Italian restaurant with our children. After our little duckies were in bed, we had an impromptu date night. We went and watched a jazz show, had drinks, and just talked. On Thursday, we took our children to see Dora the Explorer live. I am happy that my children enjoyed themselves. After, I took my daughter to Childrensalon, so she could get a little retail therapy in. We left RTW on Thursday afternoon. We stopped in Sevenoaks and had lunch. We made it home on Thursday evening. We had another date night. Just dinner and a play. I had a lovely time. On the marital side of my life, I must admit that I notice a huge difference. We are much more relaxed, easygoing, and just enjoying each other. This is the most relaxed I have been recently.

Now for the poly half of my life. Last year, two of our close friends got engaged. When the RSVPs were sent, obviously I was still with Si. I had the lovely +2. The six of us--including Nanny J--flew to Newcastle on Friday evening. Due to the amount of guests at this wedding, all of the hotels in the area were sold out, so the three of us are sharing a home for the weekend. It has been interesting because tomorrow (Monday) is our would have been 13th anniversary. It has been a mere 48 hours, and oh me oh my, if I had any ideas about living together, they would be long gone by now.

Obviously the anniversary situation is weighing on Si's mind. I know it does not help to have my DH showing PDA in front of her. Slight reminder that I "chose" him over her. I really did not. I chose the relationship that needed the most work. He likes touching and being touched. He has not been doing anything to spite her. It is nothing for him to kiss me, tell me he loves me, wrap his arms around my waist, or whisper in my ear. That is how we are at home, so I did not expect anything to change now that we are in a different setting. It has been really awkward. Friday night, we went to dinner. Of course, DH and I were being really flirty. I could tell it was making her uncomfortable, so I pulled him to the side and kind of asked him to tone it down. Since then, I have been thinking that it was the wrong move. He was only being himself, and I asked him to stop to appease the likes of her. Bad move. I was not sure how to handle it. Those old habits are not dying. In that moment, I basically put her feelings above his, and he has not said anything about it. It is something we need to discuss. I feel like I owe him an apology for being inconsiderate and basically dismissive of his feelings. Am I wrong in thinking like this?

After dinner, we stopped by the train station to pick up our friend who had flown from LAX to LHR and then, hopped on a three hour train ride. She was good and tired. We had cocktails when we got back to the house. She retired early, so once again it was just the three of us. He was holding back from showing PDA. The energy was awkward, so I told her good-night and went to bed with him.

From Friday night after dinner to about 3:30 PM yesterday, we were at the house. We were all getting dressed and ready for the wedding, which did not start until 5 PM. DH took our children and Nanny J out for a late breakfast. We just had food delivered. It was nice to have some bonding time with my female counterparts. When the three of us are in a room together, it is like no one knows what to do. I was getting my hair curled and getting my hat secured. DH kissed me before my lips were done. Si was in there, and I swear her eyes were like burning me. Do you know how you just feel someone's eyes on you? It was not like she could just walk out with a curling iron in her hair and someone working on her face and nails.

I was grateful when the driver pulled up. We chatted with him, and he was telling us about how long he has known the family and all of that. It broke the awkwardness of the three of us being in close quarters. The wedding was beautiful, and the bride was beaming from the moment the doors opened. It was magical.

The reception was one of epic proportions. Complete with a fireworks display. The entire day was beautiful, and I could not be happier for the couple. From the readings by her brother and his brother to the music selections to their first dance. It was definitely what they wanted, and they were happy.

Towards the end of the night, I snuggled up with DH and watched the fireworks. I actually did think for a minute, "This time last year, I would have been enjoying this with both of loves," but those thoughts left pretty quickly. I got lost in the moment, the love, the beauty, the setting, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was the perfect romantic setting, and it added to that certain magic of the entire day. As the fireworks were going off and illuminating in the sky, "At Last" by Etta James playing. At another point, Celine Dion's, "Because You Love Me" was playing.

We retired for the evening. Our children were sleep when we got in. Si decided to go out and enjoy the afterparty. I heard her come in about an hour ago. DH and I had a nice wee hour of the AM chat. We took a shower, had a couple of glasses of champers, and ate cake. After, we cuddled and made love. I fell asleep in his arms. Perfect day (IMO). Perfect night. Full of love.

I am not sure how I will handle the next time the three of us have to be in a confined space for a set amount of time. I cannot disregard DH's feelings. At the same time, I feel like it would be wrong of me to ignore someone's obvious discomfort. Could she just excuse herself? Yes, but that seems dramatic. It is impossible to remain neutral when in the middle of two people you love. I do know how I handled things at dinner was wrong. If it is this awkward and we are just friends, imagine how it will be if we resume a relationship. All this weekend has proved is poly is not even on my radar. I can only take so many awkward vibes and uncomfortable/squeamish moments. It is best to deal with them separately.

In non-relationship news, we are leaving London on the 30th. Seven whole days. Our last days of work are the 26th and 28th, respectively. My daughter's going away party with all of her little friends is Friday evening. Our families and friends are giving us a going away dinner. I know to wear waterproof mascara that night. Though we have been planning this for a year, it is bittersweet. The sadness is hitting me now because before it seemed far off. Now, we are on the real countdown. Here is to new beginnings.
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  #483  
Old 06-23-2013, 02:13 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post


I am not sure how I will handle the next time the three of us have to be in a confined space for a set amount of time. I cannot disregard DH's feelings. At the same time, I feel like it would be wrong of me to ignore someone's obvious discomfort. Could she just excuse herself? Yes, but that seems dramatic. It is impossible to remain neutral when in the middle of two people you love. I do know how I handled things at dinner was wrong. If it is this awkward and we are just friends, imagine how it will be if we resume a relationship.
Well, surely this PDA question is something you could, and probably should, discuss with both Matt and Si, separately. I've been in a room with my ex h and my current gf more than once... at first I didn't show gf much affection in front of the ex, but after 6 months to a year, I did. Let him deal with his emotions around that.

But if you and Si resumed your romantic relationship, ideally you'd all have developed compersion by then and PDAs between you and either love would be acceptable. Or not. I know in some Vs people do refrain in front of the other. Just needs to be talked about.

Good luck with the move! It's going to be a huge change.
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  #484  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:44 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Well, surely this PDA question is something you could, and probably should, discuss with both Matt and Si, separately. I've been in a room with my ex h and my current gf more than once... at first I didn't show gf much affection in front of the ex, but after 6 months to a year, I did. Let him deal with his emotions around that.

But if you and Si resumed your romantic relationship, ideally you'd all have developed compersion by then and PDAs between you and either love would be acceptable. Or not. I know in some Vs people do refrain in front of the other. Just needs to be talked about.

Good luck with the move! It's going to be a huge change.
It is something that will be discussed because resuming the relationship is in the future. No set date and time, but it is going to happen. He asked for a reprieve from poly, but he has no issue with me actually resuming the relationship. Reprieve for me just means more time to repair our marriage and strengthen our weaknesses. The amount of time is TBD. No rush, though. Hopefully at that point, compersion will be high, and this will not be an issue. If necessary, we could put a boundary in place for no PDA when the three of us are together. In the past, they did not have a problem with it, but with his modified and tailor made DADT policy, that may very well change.

This weekend was the first time that the three of us have all been in one place for a period longer than a couple of hours, since the fallout. Usually, there are other people around, so any awkwardness is minimal. I kept wondering if she felt like the proverbial third wheel, which is also why I ended up limiting contact and controlling the amount of affection. Lesson learned.

Thank you! I am ready to get this moving business over with. I hope you and miss p are enjoying your new home.
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  #485  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:49 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Good morning.
Of course, DH and I were being really flirty. I could tell it was making her uncomfortable, so I pulled him to the side and kind of asked him to tone it down. Since then, I have been thinking that it was the wrong move. He was only being himself, and I asked him to stop to appease the likes of her. Bad move. I was not sure how to handle it. Those old habits are not dying. In that moment, I basically put her feelings above his, and he has not said anything about it. It is something we need to discuss. I feel like I owe him an apology for being inconsiderate and basically dismissive of his feelings. Am I wrong in thinking like this?
I feel like chiming in here... "to appease the likes of her" seems a bit offensive to me I just had to say. If you're going to resume a relationship with her at some point (and if I were her, I couldn't say what you write in here makes it sound very appealing) its not about putting HIS needs first or HER needs first, it's got to be somewhat about compromise. That means you being willing to say "hey honey, I think Si is uncomfortable, can we have less PDA for the rest of the night and talk about the subject later? It means you say the same to her if he is uncomfortable. Everybody states their wants and needs and you work hard to get as many met as possible.

It doesn't have to mean (and I think it shouldn't) you ignore anyone's feelings or that one person always gets their way, or gets to do what they want all the time and the other people just have to suck it up. Sure you can say "I worry I was dismissive of your feelings" but were you going to go apologize to Si for being inconsiderate and dismissive of HER feelings as you ignored her discomfort? Seems like practicing balance is still something you have some work to do on, as it looks to be a recurring theme in your relationships.
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  #486  
Old 06-25-2013, 08:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Compromise? That is a foreign and non-existent term in my life these days. Balance in the two relationships was lost a long time ago. Try years ago. It is going to be a long time until it is back at 100. It is stalled right now because there are no other romantic relationships to balance. Even when there is another one, balance still will not be restored. My husband has an arsenal of stipulations and new boundaries that grow by the day.

No, I was not going to apologise to her, and when I saw it was a problem, it stopped. Unfortunately, it caused a problem between my husband and myself. I knew it was going to come up, and it did. Our first poly related session with our new doc was this morning, so it was the perfect time to address it. Let's just say it would serve me well to get comfortable in my new found mono marriage.
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  #487  
Old 06-25-2013, 09:26 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good morning.

It has been an interesting couple of days. We returned home from Northumberland on Sunday. It was a pretty standard evening in the S-LA household. We had Sunday dinner with my parents at the Waterside Inn. We returned home after to prepare for our last week of work. Sunday was just a very calm day.

Yesterday was my would have been anniversary with Si. To mark the day, we had lunch together. It was a nice lunch. We had the chance to talk. After lunch, I went back to work. We went to Heathrow to see Si off. She left for Australia last night, and I think it delighted my DH. A whole week without having to see her, talk to her, be around her, or anything else? He was all too happy when he saw the flight take off.

On the drive back, he expressed discontentment over the weekend and the whole PDA situation. I knew it was coming. Matt likes to think about things before just blurting them out. Basically, he felt that I was dismissive of his feelings and needs, and he does not care for the way I act when she is around. As he put it, "Bloody bending over backwards to be accommodating for her and forgetting that I, too, have feelings and needs of my own. Say what you want, but you pushed me to the side in favour of her again. More so, someone that you are not even with right now." He thinks that I am reverting back to my old ways of putting her first. It stirred up some negative feelings in him. We just kind of dropped it because he did not want to talk about it right then. He was pissed off when we went to bed.

Our therapy session started at 7:15. Despite it being via video conference, she picked up on the tension immediately. She referred to me as being a chameleon and changing to match the environment. Matt never changes. He is who he is. She said I was so caught up in how she was feeling, her comfort, and what she needed, that I ignored Matt. On the flipside, his feelings were more of an afterthought for me. His comfort was never considered. In essence, he was told to limit how much he touched me--his wife--for someone who is just a friend. Even I cannot make any right out of that. I was very dismissive, and I apologised for that. I know that he is affectionate, so asking him to stop for someone who is an obvious trigger and still a sore spot? I was asking for trouble. I felt the need to change how we act because of her feelings. I never stopped to ask him. I just told him. Was it considerate to her? Yes. Was it considerate to him? No. Was there a compromise that could have been made? No PDA if she is in the room or within view? So we have to secretly be affectionate towards one another to avoid offending her and making her uncomfortable? Maybe that is not quite as bad as it seems, but it sounds awful. I thought about what he needed after the damage had already been done. For future reference, if it feels wrong, it is wrong. It did feel wrong, and it was wrong. This is an old habit, and I have to break it. Balance needs to be restored. She gave us a few tips for handling that next time. Little does she know, there will not be a next time.

She addressed his arsenal of stipulations for being tolerant of me having another relationship. They are defence mechanisms to insure that what happened from 2008 to March 2013 will never happen again. Now that I am looking at that list, it makes all the sense in the world. In theory, there is nothing wrong with his list. Everyone is entitled to have boundaries. She asked him to come up with consequences and to also rate the things on a scale, with the highest number being something that is divorce worthy, if the boundary is broken. It will be interesting to hear which items are divorce worthy.

I am happy that the two sessions are separate. We spent the entire time talking about poly this morning. We have our regular marriage counselling session later on in the week. DH and I have not really talked. We had breakfast with our children, and then, he left. I think he is still in deep thought about something. When he is ready, he will come and talk to me. My ex is a trigger for him, so I am determined to keep them apart. The only time they need to be around each other is for counselling. Other than that, even social events are off-limits now.

Our highest highs are when there is no mention of her or poly. Our lowest lows are when she is around and he has to hear or talk about poly. The happiest he has been was the week we spent in Australia. There was a no poly discussion ban. He was 16k away from my ex. It was the perfect week for him.

I have to get started at work, but I hope the day gets better.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 06-25-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:55 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I just read a thread about DADT.

My DH wants a modified version of DADT. Only it is not DADT. It is more, "Do not tell me, if it does not involve me." Basically, my relationship will be my business and keep it away from him. His words. Not mine. He has explicitly stated that he will have zero interest in the relationship, and he does not want the two paths to cross. He drew out a picture in counselling. You know how a Venn Diagram crosses in the middle? This will not be a Venn Diagram. Our marriage, family, and life together had one circle, and my future relationship with her, poly, and anything pertaining to that side of my life were in the other circle. I asked him if he would feel left out of part of my life? His response, "Hard to feel left out of something that means nothing to you." Wow. He seriously wants no part of a poly marriage, and he will do whatever it takes to make sure he has no contact with it. The only times my two "circles" will cross is during that once a week meeting. Other than that, I will simultaneously be living two different lives.

He does not want to be out after we move, so measures will have to be taken to insure that the "secret" stays in the bottle. As if that will really be a problem with me seeing her for one overnight a week and maybe lunch dates during the week. He wants to continue implementing the measures we have already taken to insure that our children are seeing enough of us. Breakfast and dinner as a family every day. There is no excuse now because the amount of call we will be on will be limited now. That is the only exception. He still expects the minimum of two hours of one-one-one QT every day. He told me in counselling, "You can live your life the way you want, but you are not dragging me down a path that I refuse to walk down. Being out is my hard limit, and I am not doing it again." Not being out means that I will be able to continue to build a relationship with my MIL and not have to worry about Matt sacrificing his relationship with her to defend me, but it also means that Si will still not be able to be around them for family related events, holidays, or anything else. She has been snubbed by them many times over, but I know it still bothers her to this day. It is one hell of a fašade; pretending to be mono to keep the peace and secretly living another life. This sounds like something that will cause pain and heartbreak.

I am confident in our therapist's abilities, but I doubt that she will ever make Matt be tolerant or accepting of poly again. He has made it clear that my two lives must never intersect, and she must not be a co-primary because he feels like I lack the ability to balance two relationships with everything else on my plate. He is right. My schedule is not opening up. After the move, I may have more free time, but it will not be idle time. After the move, the things I was doing here will be replaced by new hobbies and responsibilities there. I am not going to say these sessions will be a waste, but if any of the goals are to get Matt "on board" with the idea of poly, we can discontinue them now. He admitted that he does not trust Si. He believes she may be sorry for what happened, but he said that she is going to have to start from the dirt and build her way up to earn his trust back. Until she does, there will be no contact with our children, and he intends on keeping her at a safe distance from him, too. He said that meeting once a week in a therapist's office is more than enough for now. Once they start attending the weekly sessions, things may change again. I am not expecting some magical breakthrough. I have no idea what to expect.

It has been almost four months since the fallout. I am just taking it day by day.
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Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...
Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3.5) children.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 06-25-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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  #489  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:52 PM
crisplove crisplove is offline
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FoL, you are very empathic towards Si and your husband.

Are you going to be able to carry on two lives? What is the toll of this arrangement on you?

I get that you couldn't manage both relationships in the past, but you live and you learn.

What if Si were out of the picture? Could you be someone who lived a double life?
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  #490  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:18 PM
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I get that you couldn't manage both relationships in the past, but you live and you learn.
Don't forget, the learning part takes time and practice in small doses. I think that is what FOL is trying to do. You don't just one day wake up and decide to go out and run a marathon. You have to get in shape, train, stumble and fall, pull out the ice packs and pain meds... rinse and repeat until finally you are ready to run that marathon. It may take years.

For the record. I think you guys are doing well. Matt didn't sit and stew about what happened, he brought it up and addressed it. You recognized that you screwed up almost immediately and started to look at how to not repeat it, even before he said anything. Then you took it to your counselor. I would say this is progress from how things happened in the past.
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