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  #21  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:26 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Err.. what's wrong with "other cultures do it." It pretty clearly points out how much power society has over a persons beliefs and behavior.

That said: Incest? Really? I vaguely remember from my anthropology class that incest was one of the few universal taboos we know about. Universal taboo meaning that no culture/society allows it. In fact, the theory behind incest being a universal taboo is that there IS something in our nature that prevents it.
Definition of incest specifically?
Someone on fb recently described 1st cousins together as incest. However-in our state, 1st cousins can legally marry and have children it is NOT considered incest.

This would be a good example of different cultures having different definitions and therefore different expectations.

Some cultures consider it incest for an older relative to marry a younger relative-but other cultures see nothing wrong with marrying a man in his 50s to a child in their early teens-and often they are related in some manner (uncle/niece or 2nd cousins etc).
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  #22  
Old 06-15-2013, 04:21 AM
onoma onoma is offline
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I would focus less on this book and whether or not it will get you closer to accomplishing your plan than I would focus on being honest with my partner.

Have you spoken with her about wanting an open relationship (or whatever it is that you are gunning for)? Has she requested that you find a good book for her? If you have talked with her unambiguously about what you want and she has requested that you do some research for her (which would tell me that she's not actually that interested) then so be it:

I have not read that particular book.

If you haven't spoken with her about it and she thus has not asked you to do research for her... what exactly is your plan? You going to slip it under her pillow and play dumb?
Long story short, it came up two years ago... she said it was a dealbreaker but we stayed together because neither of us were ready to break up. We had a fight a couple months ago, and we've been estranged since but we live together so we go back and forth between trying to put distance between ourtselves and trying to hold each other. It's... difficult and depressing. Thing is, she keeps saying she wants marriage but she won't even consider an open relationship... which makes me feel a little bit like she doesn't care about me. Also, part of the "pushing me away" thing is that she doesn't want to have sex because she feels it should only be for a relationship with a future. Of course, she's been ok with that for the past two years... but I think part of her hangup is what society says about sex. The other thing is she doesn't seem at all bothered by cheating in fiction, for instance she loves Don Draper on Mad Men. She's also had dreams where we'd be together while she was dating someone else... so a part of me at least wants to believe there's some part of her that is poly, but won't admit it because of how society views things.

Anyway... yeah, she knows but she isn't willing to go for it. But isn't willing to truly part ways either. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I guess I was hoping this book would help somehow.

This post was written while slightly inebriated by the way... so please forgive bad grammar and run-on sentences.
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2013, 04:58 AM
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CreepingButtercup CreepingButtercup is offline
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Well, that must mean nearly everyone is okay with murder, right? I mean, a lot of heroes, anti-heroes and antagonists outright murder in fiction. Heck, Lolita is a classic. If your logic of wanting to do what protagonists do is correct, all literature teachers would likely have been incarcerated by now.

What makes you think she is not just mono, that she KNOWS what she wants? What makes you realize she might be open to the idea, rather then being unable to detach herself from someone she cares for so cleanly?

As for the sex? I'd advise not pushing it. You won't win much sympathy from her for asking her for it. Let her get comfortable first.
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  #24  
Old 06-15-2013, 05:12 AM
onoma onoma is offline
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Well, that must mean nearly everyone is okay with murder, right?
Yeah, lots of people declare their love for Jason and Freddy Krueger. Right?

There's a difference between enjoying a character and saying you have a crush on him, isn't there?
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CreepingButtercup View Post
What makes you think she is not just mono, that she KNOWS what she wants? What makes you realize she might be open to the idea, rather then being unable to detach herself from someone she cares for so cleanly?
Hate to say it OP, but CB here has hit the nail right on the head.

She has told you unambiguously that she is monogamous and that polyamory is a deal breaker. This is a boundary she has clearly defined and explicitly informed you of.

Stop trying to trick her into believing something that you believe. If you actually do care about her and not just about how you imagine she could be as a poly, then respect her clearly defined boundaries and stop playing games with her. She's monogamous, dude, deal with it.
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  #26  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:34 PM
onoma onoma is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Hate to say it OP, but CB here has hit the nail right on the head.

She has told you unambiguously that she is monogamous and that polyamory is a deal breaker. This is a boundary she has clearly defined and explicitly informed you of.

Stop trying to trick her into believing something that you believe. If you actually do care about her and not just about how you imagine she could be as a poly, then respect her clearly defined boundaries and stop playing games with her. She's monogamous, dude, deal with it.
Trick her? How is giving someone a book tricking them? Guess I need to go have a few discussions with my schoolteachers!

Anyway, something interesting came up over the weekend. Created a different thread though since this one is pretty much hosed: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48883



CreepingButtercup: Sorry if my reply came off as contentious. I had been drinking and arguing with my gf right before I posted. I shouldn't drink and internet!
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  #27  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:41 PM
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Trick her? How is giving someone a book tricking them? Guess I need to go have a few discussions with my schoolteachers!
So you equate your relationship with her to your relationship as a teacher to a student?

She has made her views abundantly clear, you are trying to find a book which will erode a particular aspect of you believe her views are in an effort to get her to change her views to suit your preference. If she hasn't requested that you get her new information so that you can convince her to change her worldview then I would say, sure, you're trying to "trick" her. If that word in particular bothers you than we can use another, how about "manipulate"? We could spin off into a semantic debate or just address the actual topic.
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:13 PM
onoma onoma is offline
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So you equate your relationship with her to your relationship as a teacher to a student?
That was kind of a joke dude... lighten up.

Quote:
She has made her views abundantly clear, you are trying to find a book which will erode a particular aspect of you believe her views are in an effort to get her to change her views to suit your preference. If she hasn't requested that you get her new information so that you can convince her to change her worldview then I would say, sure, you're trying to "trick" her. If that word in particular bothers you than we can use another, how about "manipulate"? We could spin off into a semantic debate or just address the actual topic.
Ok look, I'm never going to agree that presenting someone with new information is manipulating them, tricking them or anything else. It isn't. I'm presenting some information and letting her make a decision based on it. I might hope it's the decision I want, but that isn't manipulation.
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
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Showing her something that illustrates your POV is not manipulation; it's trying to create a bridge that maybe helps her understand you better, and that's not a bad thing. However, when you phrase it like this:

Quote:
thinking that just introducing her to the idea that a lot of how she sees sex is due to societal pressure could be a good first step
It seems to me that maybe you should try to do the same and accept that her POV may not strictly be ignorance or conditioning.
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:27 PM
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"Presenting new information" in a pushy way could be called "ramming propaganda down someone's throat" if said information is part of an agenda AND unwelcomed by the targeted recipient.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but this is ONE way of putting it.
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