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  #41  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:24 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Sometimes I just post links, including to my own past writings. Sometimes I get worked up and rant afresh (this is ranting for me, generally... ha, just don't get me started on consent or BDSM, those end up as actual rants). Anyway, it just depends on how I feel. It always comes out differently. For instance, the lawyer analogy is new.

Tl;dr: I like to write.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.

Last edited by ImaginaryIllusion; 06-14-2013 at 02:11 AM. Reason: Double Posting
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  #42  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:38 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Psychology, even during these current days

is best described as the equivalent to medical doctors using leeches to cure patients with infectious disease.

It is that far behind all other sciences in any scientific discipline because of the data and the fact that so many human beings either are too afraid to be honest or else they are such strangers to even themselves they literally have no idea who they are.

Peer review does not mean "debated" it means when scientists will honestly review laboratory results without bias, but it does require a level of honesty that is Honest, which means you don't it doesn't depend on how a message is conveyed, it is whether or not the message is meant to confuse or to share info so that they can understand.

Not being truthful or lying is not a valid way to teach lessons, that is closer to abuse than it can be considered teaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boring guy
Yes yes, but Annabel is one of the ones with the personal experience of liking couples and having tried it and being in the position of taken most seriously when answering these questions.

The rest of us KNOW we're right, but novices are more likely to BELIEVE someone like Annabel. On paper, anyway. In practice, they are ALL yooneek and THEY will be the ones to come back and say "See? You said it couldn't be done, but we're DOING it! Neener-neener!"

And then they come back and go, "Our unicorn was really a cowgirl!" or something else or they don't come back or maybe they live happily ever after just like in the fairy tales who knows...

When someone (NATJA!!!!) said "successful triads are rare" or whatever it was she said, something with the words "triads are rare" in it - yes, there are quite a few triads in the history of the internet that have lasted maybe more than a year or two. HOWEVER - two things:

1) those are usually the "organic" variety, not the "planned" variety

2) compare that figure to the number of "poly couples" LOOKING for a triad - both ones who haven't had one yet and ones who had one that ended after a short (NRE) time. The number of couples who WISH THEY WERE IN A TRIAD far far outnumbers the number of stable, committed three-way live-in married-type "closed" triads.

This is more or less anecdotal, but even if you just take what sampling is on this forum, it's basically so. I'm not trying to draw a graph or use this to convince people to give me a research grant or anything like that. I have been observing the new threads and thread titles and unless someone can present anecdotal evidence that i am full of shit, i rest my case. For the moment, at least.
number one, just because you desire something, doesn't mean that it cannot happen "organically"

number two, if you are claiming that there is absolutely nothing behind your words that remains unspoken or at least not addressed I find it hard to believe but I do believe you should be taken at your word. You seem willing to discuss the topic to a certain degree, however it seems more like the topic is not as important as feeling like you can view it in your head as being victorious in a debate.

There is nothing wrong with running a household, or even a community that does not allow for individuals to feel special or unique. But it is not required to have a functional healthy family or community and there is also an opposing view which is that it's healthier to have a community that is allowed to celebrate their uniqueness, but not become vain or use the fact that they are unique in order to justify doing another wrong under the false pretense that their uniqueness is more important or takes precedence.

Maybe it nothing about you or your words and I am confusing sarcasm for seriousness in your words.

I personally have never met a cowboy or a cowgirl who remained a problem once given acid, but the only ethical way to do that is for them to explicitly consent to taking it

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 06-13-2013 at 10:41 PM.
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  #43  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:44 PM
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CreepingButtercup CreepingButtercup is offline
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Hi. I'm the wife. This is my new account.

1. When he says we are happy with the relationship, I think he really means that we're happy with one another, and aren't looking for a person to double as duct tape. But really, expecting no relationship to change is I think a bit silly. Relationships, even traditional mono ones, are going to change, and its not something to fear just a fact of life. We just don't need her to fix our current mess. I'll hire a marriage counselor for that.

2. When I say I am uncomfortable with being a hinge, I think the kicker is twofold: One, I am worried about being able to competently divide attention between both parties fairly particularly since my husband enjoys spending a lot of time with me, and I enjoy spending a lot of time with those I am involved with and I would imagine anyone I click with would be the same. Dating the same person won't fix that, but I wondered if it would lessen one person feeling left out.

I am also concerned that starting off with a 'Vee' in the hopes of a triad. Somehow just feels disingenuous to everyone involved at the moment. That there will always be this pressure to either find my husband attractive or find me attractive when that wasn't quite what was advertised. So, probably thinking not the best idea in the world until I get a better handle on either how to politely indicate that I want something closed, and long-term or using a different approach as others have suggested and let things work out and be more open to alternatives. Also learning better time management skills and knowing how to make sure both people feel special and not ignored.

3. Immediate exclusivity when dating? Yes, but not for the reasons you might imagine. Before I was married, I expected the same from my partners with whom I made clear that I was looking for something long-term, just how I personally choose to date. You young people and your new-fangled ways! Through I will admit, I had not considered that a safe base for the other woman would be quite important when embarking on a relationship where she does not have the power, no matter how unintentional or unwanted as that might be by all parties. I could see how that might be attractive, or even necessary.

I can definitely respect someone for wanting to date in another way for whatever reason they desire. However, I would worry about feeling like I was competing with the other dates to try to capture her interest and her heart if I liked her. This is to say, I do not think I have such a good handle on such things to the point that it would be irresponsible or immature to willingly get into such an arrangement. I don't think this is entirely fair to her or her other partners, and doubly, if not triply so for a husband or other long-term partner.

Perhaps holding off until we both feel comfortable with other arrangements might be wise, to consider that anyone one of us clicks with might not click with the both of us and definitely would not wish to feel trapped or forced. I thank everyone for commenting upon this, in particular AnnabelMore. It certainly helped to understand the situation from the so-called 'third' point of view, and how they might, sadly, be treated as such. We want to share and find someone special, not control nor objectify another person.

4. If it makes anyone feel any better, I had to read a comment a few times to understand there was a TV show regarding this since I am so out of the loop that the loop and I reside in different dimensions. Reminds me of a bit of when a movie features an animal so everyone rushes out to buy one.

And sorry if this post seems argumentative or flippant of advice--I am really looking not to the 'what' of what not to do but the why to really understand how best to approach this as to cause as little drama or offense to others, as well as to understand the issues at hand.
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  #44  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:01 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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If you don't want drama, don't cause any, first of all.

Second, be aware that whomever you date will bring their OWN issues to the table, and THAT could cause drama. You really have to know yourself. You have to be honest with yourself and be prepared to treat yourSELF as number one.

WHY?

Because! Because I said so. Because that's how you do it RIGHT. Don't believe me. Go make your own mistakes and find out for yourself. I don't even know why these forums exist. People come here, ask advice, and say "you don't know me! I'm uneek and spayshul! I make up new words for things that already have words! Yay me!"

Yes, yay, you. Go make your mistakes, learn your lessons, and come back here and give people your useless hard-earned advice with the rest of us. Take as long as you need to. We'll wait right here.

(that "you" was the "Royal You" and not aimed only or especially at the Butterfly-cup-woman)
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  #45  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:09 AM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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If your relationship with your husband is so fulfilling why the quest for a third? In my marriage something was missing for me. My husband is one hell of a man. A lot of women would kill for a husband like mine. Yet for me something was missing. All my relationships since my teens I never stayed long. Something was missing. So I would flit from relationship to relationship searching because I was raised you didn't "cheat". My husband being the sage man he is gave me permission to find my happiness. Actually more like he kicked me in the butt and pushed me beyond my comfort zone. Last year I found my boyfriend through the car scene and my friends. He was the piece that was missing. Honestly he probably is about as perfect a match for me than anyone. Yet even he is not the complete package. My husband has those characteristics.

As for the time issue.. welcome to adulthood. You learn where there's a will there's a way. If your husband truly loves you he will allow to make time for another. You will make sure to make time for him. I am 39.. I have to work. Run a household .. have 2 younger children. My husband works second shift with rotating days off. My boyfriend works 12 he midnight shifts with rotating days off. Want to talk about a scheduling nightmare. But we managed to work out a reasonable schedule. I split my time 60/40. We all make sacrifices to make this work. For example my boyfriend is on vacation this week. There's nothing that I want more than be with him as much as possible. But that didn't happen. I had responsible here at my family home. So I have to wait til tomorrow to see him. And my poor husband will be flying solo this weekend because the kids and I will be with Murf.

As for the needing exclusive from the get go. Why should you get to have your cake and eat it too. You have a soft spot to land if things go wrong in your husband. Why should they not be allowed the same. Or someone to spend their time with when you and your hubby need couple time.
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Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 60/40 split of time. Only due to Murf's and Butch's crappy work schedules.
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  #46  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:30 AM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Exclamation Mod Note:

I'm going to take a moment to direct everyone to the User Guidelines and suggest anyone who needs a refresher takes a look.

I also mention this, because they, along with some other things are likely to start changing in the near to medium term. It seems some have gotten to used to the idea of lively and heated discussion being expected from time to time being an excuse to douse regular discussions in gasoline just because it's not a blog. There has been a divergence from the original intention of this forum as a place for open discussion, and we'll be endeavoring to bring that back around.

Since this thread seems to have everyone's attention at the moment, this is a good a place as any to let everyone know. Apologies to the OP, I'm sure you didn't intend to start a quagmire, but this particular issue seems to be a recurring chronic condition.

As much as I don't like repeating myself, I will here. We don't expect everyone to agree all the time, but we do expect you to treat each other with respect, and maintain some decorum of civilized discussion.
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  #47  
Old 06-14-2013, 04:58 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
If your relationship with your husband is so fulfilling why the quest for a third? In my marriage something was missing for me.
Not directly related to this thread, but I had to respond to this part. My relationship with my husband was/is fulfilling all by itself...I didn't really feel like there was anything "missing" per se. (Although, to be perfectly fair, I wasn't "looking" for another partner - I just happened to find one anyone.)

I don't think that you have to look at it like "I need someone that has the exact qualities that my first partner lacks." If I ran into someone with the exact same qualities as my husband ... I would probably like them TOO (after all, I liked my husband from the get-go ). You like a person for who THEY are, in and of themselves, NOT how they compare to your existing partners or fit into the "gaps" in your life. Interesting, lovable people are interesting and lovable, regardless of who else I am involved with...

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #48  
Old 06-14-2013, 05:01 AM
london london is offline
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In fact, common advice is not to open your marriage if it is unfulfilling. You aren't looking for someone to add to it and make your marriage something it isn't.
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  #49  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:34 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
In fact, common advice is not to open your marriage if it is unfulfilling. You aren't looking for someone to add to it and make your marriage something it isn't.
Hmmm, that is why I dislike the ad's that start 'Searching for our missing piece'

I don't necessarily think they mean it anyway, I just think it is stock romantic phrases that people drag out from monogamyland and use it in Poly.
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  #50  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:10 AM
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Phy Phy is offline
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I would like to second Jane. I know that some see it as "completing the picture/puzzle" but I would be perfectly happy with any of my relationships as a two person one. That special criteria is the reason why I knew that it would work for me in the case of my husband/boyfriend. If a partner is missing "something" I will not feel the need to be with him/her. This may be different for others, as Dagferi pointed out, but not neccessarilly for all
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