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  #111  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Are you talking of people who 'want' to be Unicorns or people who just find themselves in the Unicorn position, because as the latter that was not my experience at all and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self esteem problems (like Daria says "I just have low esteem for everyone else"). So no, not me and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that (I was also, the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met btw).
I assume the former was implied?

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'Unicorn' though. I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a Poly relationship, whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.
Broken record, again, but I'm seeing why.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience but remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from Unicorn Hunting, we read everything, we wrote everything and we educated ourselves very well but at the end of the day, keeping everyone included and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time, it will end up seeming tyrannical.
I'm not sure. I'll say that the entire experience of admitting to this and seeing what would entail was very healthy for our relationship. Talking about some of what was posted, including things like this, will probably be really helpful as well; so again, thanks to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live in Poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third') This should give you an indication on where the power lays with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.
I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
As for me, I would rather have my toenails, pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again.....It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions but no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a Unicorn.
Sorry. Again, this puts into context why it's so distasteful, so it does help.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
My opinion would be to swing, as others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both, at least it would be more natural, but otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy, for most people (like 95%) it will never happen, as long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck
Natja
No matter what I do appreciate the need to pick a more natural avenue to pursue this, if at all. The suggestion is nice, though. Thanks for the info and advice.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I hear from Poly in the news that Polyamory: Married and Dating is to be repeated proceeding the new series...

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper Unicorns....

I hate that frickin show..........
Another reason I haven't watched television in two years. I also wear a tinfoil hat and occasionally bathe in Purell. Though I guess I can understand why I'm even more annoying if you guys are getting an influx due to that.
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  #112  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:51 PM
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franchescasc franchescasc is offline
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Default Just remember....

"My wife and I are very similar, I think we both hoped that it would help make things less completely unrealistic and more mostly unrealistic. Anyway, we'll be talking more later about the issue of trying to do dating "together." I think we understand that it's not as reasonable as we might like, plenty of people have said it, but we're not entirely sure how to handle that. Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement; maybe she could say more about that since I'm not psychic (hint, hint). The other issue is honesty about that and our intentions from the beginning. And finally a plain desire for mutual involvement, which I'm pretty sure I'm rambled about."

The biggest thing I've learned through all of this-is to pinpoint the source of discomfort and jealousy. Have your wife ask herself WHY she's uncomfortable to be in a relationship past a certain point without your involvement. There's always a root to discomfort and jealousy....and the biggest gift of polyamory for me has been digging deep to pinpoint these within myself and work on them. For example, I was uncomfortable with FJ & MD spending time alone together. For me, it was because I was scared MD would not be interested in me any more. I was scared they would develop a strong bond, and she wouldn't feel the same for me. Honestly, I still struggle with this. I have been able to ask for reassurances from her, and she has given them to me. But ultimately, I am only responsible for my own happiness and reactions. Anyways....I'm starting to ramble but you get the idea. Discomfort has a reason. Instead of eliminating what is making you uncomfortable-figure out the WHY and deal with THAT. It works better than having someone change their behavior to suit you.

This is a good article: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html
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  #113  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Root View Post


I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.
Oh I wish I could explain to you how very, very egalitarian we were. Genuinely. But as I said, with the greatest amount of education, good will, communication et al. It still can develop into a hellish world of helldom house in hell land.

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.
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  #114  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:19 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Default Danger Will Robinson Danger!

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Originally Posted by Root View Post
Both of us like our relationship as it is. It's possible to spend a lot of time around another person without them stealing your soul. I'm trying to be lighthearted, but I really do just enjoy being in very active and close relationships.
First, Root, I like how you handled yourself. (Tinfoil hats are so useful! I put one on my dog just in case. ) Actually listening to advice, especially when delivered a bit harshly or snarkily, is not easy to do. Good for you. I also appreciate that you and your wife are trying to avoid the pitfalls of seeking a triad. That is also a fine thing - it would be lovely if more people did that!

I suggest searching here and elsewhere on the web for 'couple privilege'. A caveat - if you are in a couple and so presumably have couple privilege, this does not make you a bad person. It just means you have the responsiblity to think through how having that privilege affects how you think and act - both as individuals and as a couple. There is much discussion about couple privilege here and several poly focused blogs have written about it.

Also read through, when you can, and as much as you can, the fifty zillion posts here on unicorns, triads, etc. It's a lot to go through but reading it will provide you with a sense of what typically goes horribly, horribly wrong with a couple (usually m/f with the man being straight and the woman being bi) seeking a bisexual woman to be with both of them. And you will get a sense of what happens when things go well - such as many people have already mentioned that triads that happen organically seem to work better in the long term.

I am, technically, a unicorn. I date men and women and was single until recently. I am bi/pansexual. I have not had any bad experiences with couples. However, I personally dislike dating couples. One big reason is that I suck at multi-tasking. I find it mentally and emotionally difficult to split (or double?) my focus. This is less of an issue when interacting one on one. However the idea of interactions between all three all or most of the time just makes me tired. (I am also an introvert.)

There is also the reality that I am very, very rarely attracted to both members of a couple. It just doesn't happen that often. Even if I like and enjoy both people, I am usually sexually interested just in one. My current FWB is married. I think the world of his wife - she is full of awesome - but there is zippo sexual chemistry between us. Fortunately, while they like to play together, it is not a requirement. It is my impression that being sexually attracted mostly or entirely just to one 'half' of a couple is really common.

Finally, I quoted the bit above to highlight a concern. It is great that you and your wife are content and happy with each other. It is also great that you are coming to poly out of a place of strength, connection, and joy instead of what poly folks call the 'relationship broken, add more people!' fallacy.

This is something that most people don't understand when moving into ethical non-monogamy and/or poly. Your relationship will change. It will change in ways you or your wife never anticipated. You cannot expect it to remain the same, as it is now. There is no way for you to avoid change and be ethically poly. (I think this is where the stereotypcial 'unicorn hunters' often get themselves into trouble.) Your relationship will change in ways that are utterly unpredictable. You will be surprised and stunned at the twists and turns your life will take. Now this may not be bad. You may find that your relationship with each other is even stronger and more joyful with poly than as a monogamous couple. Or the impact may be more neutral. Or your marriage will crack apart.

If you want to keep your relationship at the place where it is now, don't go the poly route.

If you and your wife decide to take the plunge, just know that the effects and consequences are unpredictable. The rewards may be great - I hope so -but it is not possible to know the outcome before starting this experiment. Of course, that's true of life in general. But poly seems to magnify changes in relationships, kind of like how hothouses grow bigger plants faster.
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  #115  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:23 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.
I just got reminded of this "proverb":

"To really be safe, always carry a bomb on the airplane. The chances of there being one bomb are pretty small, but the chances of two bombs are minuscule. So, by carrying a bomb on the plane with you, the odds of being blown up or taken hostage are astronomically reduced."

It's like a corollary or something when applied to relationships:

"The chances of finding a partner who is compatible with ONE of you is pretty small; but the chances of finding a partner who is compatible with BOTH of you is almost minuscule. So, by carrying the expectation that this will be an "equal triad", the odds of having that actually HAPPEN are astronomically reduced."

I hope you liked that broken-record, too.
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  #116  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:23 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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First of all, you say you desire a closed triad. Do you expect that the bisexual woman you target for your triad will have to be exclusive with you from the start? This is always one of the main sticking points for me with unicorn hunters. In any mono dating situation, exclusivity is not expected from the get-go. There always a period of going out together and getting to know one another before saying, "let's be exclusive." And many relationships end without ever becoming exclusive. Agreeing to exclusivity is almost always a BIG STEP to take in any relationship.

In addition, what if you meet someone who is pretty fucking fantastic and open to the idea of being with both you and your wife, but she is also currently dating other people, testing the waters herself, and doesn't want to be exclusive right away? Maybe even wants to wait six months or more before making an exclusive commitment to anyone? Or what if you meet someone who hits it off with both of you really well and she is also married? Reject that possibility? You only want someone who will eventually move in with you, fuck both of you, and share in the housekeeping? There has to be committed exclusive partnership with both of you and the goal of forever before you will consider dating anyone?

Also, I have learned that different people have different definitions of what "dating" actually is and what they want to get out of it. Are you and your wife clear and in agreement about your definitions? Not just on "dating," but also on the words relationship, romance, love, commitment, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Root View Post
Both of us like our relationship as it is.
Well, that's nice, but a word of caution: don't get too attached to the idea that your relationship with your wife will stay the way it is if either or both of you become involved with someone else! It will change dramatically! This is another ridiculous fantasy many unicorn hunters like to entertain - that the relationship of the existing couple will not change even when they've "added in" someone else. Think about it - how could the dynamics between you two not change? It's not like adding a handbag to an outfit. There would be another human being, with their own personality, baggage, desires, wants, needs, and quirks, intimately involved with each of you, and both of you. NOTHING will ever be the same!

And since you do like your relationship the way it is, why change it up and seek an additional partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Root View Post
Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement . . .
This is a very telling piece of information that really makes a statement. You've said that wanting a close relationship of three is "how you roll," but this reveals a deeper motivation on your part - protecting your wife. Would you ease up on your stance that that is "how you roll" if she were quite comfortable with the idea of being involved separately with someone? Why is she uncomfortable? Is it about feeling disloyal, for example? You two are really not ready for polyamory, or perhaps any kind of non-monogamy, if one of you cannot feel comfortable engaging with another person on a romantic or intimate level without the other. This is the most important issue I would explore in your discussions (or therapy) if I were you. Frankly, it isn't good enough to say, "she isn't comfortable, so we're going to work around her discomfort." The goal should be to become more self-aware and drill down to discover the insecurities and fears underneath the discomfort. This doesn't have to mean that outwardly what you shoot for would look much different, but it is better to have an understanding of what makes her so uncomfortable with that.

Listen, some people take a year or more of investigating polyamory, examining their belief systems, and confronting fears before they ever embark on opening up their relationship. Taking your time, and having a third party listen and mediate (as in therapy) is always a good idea. The best thing to do is go slowly and invest in knowing yourselves better (your inner fears, thought patterns, emotional stability, hopes, dreams, secrets) before you even consider getting involved with an additional person or persons. And if the only reading you've done on this so far has been online resources, I would also recommend books to you. Opening Up by Tristan Taormino is very good. There is a thread here of book recommendations if you do a search.



[AND by the way, let's everyone please remember and get it through your heads that "unicorn hunters" is a phrase that means a couple is looking for something mythical that doesn't exist. So, just because a bi woman is, or has been, in a triad doesn't mean she is a unicorn - to call her that doesn't make sense. If she exists, she isn't a unicorn! It isn't a triad, per se, that is mythical. The mythical creature is used to describe the unrealistic fantasies of the unicorn-hunting couple, not the relationship configuration nor the actual woman herself.]
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 06-13-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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  #117  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:37 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
[AND by the way, let's everyone please remember and get it through your heads that "unicorn hunters" is a phrase that means a couple is looking for something mythical that doesn't exist. So, just because a bi woman is, or has been, in a triad doesn't mean she is a unicorn - to call her that doesn't make sense. If she exists, she isn't a unicorn! It isn't a triad, per se, that is mythical. The mythical creature is used to describe the unrealistic fantasies of the unicorn-hunting couple, not the actual woman herself.]
I'm quoting this. Nobody will read it though. People will still think "unicorn " is a term of endearment and that "unicorn hunters" are misunderstood victims of victim-blaming.
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  #118  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by franchescasc View Post
The biggest thing I've learned through all of this-is to pinpoint the source of discomfort and jealousy. Have your wife ask herself WHY she's uncomfortable to be in a relationship past a certain point without your involvement. There's always a root to discomfort and jealousy....and the biggest gift of polyamory for me has been digging deep to pinpoint these within myself and work on them. For example, I was uncomfortable with FJ & MD spending time alone together. For me, it was because I was scared MD would not be interested in me any more. I was scared they would develop a strong bond, and she wouldn't feel the same for me. Honestly, I still struggle with this. I have been able to ask for reassurances from her, and she has given them to me. But ultimately, I am only responsible for my own happiness and reactions. Anyways....I'm starting to ramble but you get the idea. Discomfort has a reason. Instead of eliminating what is making you uncomfortable-figure out the WHY and deal with THAT. It works better than having someone change their behavior to suit you.

This is a good article: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html
Yeah, got plenty to sit down and talk about when she's less busy, this would admittedly be one of those things. Will probably go over the article at the same time, thanks!

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Originally Posted by lili View Post
My only real advice for OP is:

-feel really confident that you can be honest and communicative with your partner before diving into this.
-just state what to want to potential partners up front. Get used to rejection, as this style of relationship isn't palatable to everyone.
-it helps to acknowledge the pressure being put on any unicorn you court, but still stick firm to what you want
-it really helps that you can spell. Most of the unicorn hunting messages I get on okcupid are unintelligible, so you're already ahead of the game.
-You might want to get your training wheels at a swingers party. Ever thought about that? Those things are usually full of willing unicorns, some open to the idea of poly
-A triad I knew just up and started bringing their third to family functions and acted like it was normal. They didn't come out though. Shrug. If her family is super liberal, I would honestly just give them a chance. Poly is coming into the media a lot more now, becoming normalized, and it gets a lot of positive coverage.
-for god's sake, don't use craigslist
I think I forgot to say: thanks! I'm perfectly willing to use craigslist if you pay me a significant amount beforehand. But, seriously, I do appreciate the suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Oh I wish I could explain to you how very, very egalitarian we were. Genuinely. But as I said, with the greatest amount of education, good will, communication et al. It still can develop into a hellish world of helldom house in hell land.

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.
Yeah. Unfortunately this seems one of those things that threatens to be unavoidable. I'm not sure. The risk doesn't phase me as much as it likely should, it's that kind of ignorance you can only enjoy with a lack of experience, but knowing it exists is worth something.

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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I just got reminded of this "proverb":

"To really be safe, always carry a bomb on the airplane. The chances of there being one bomb are pretty small, but the chances of two bombs are minuscule. So, by carrying a bomb on the plane with you, the odds of being blown up or taken hostage are astronomically reduced."

It's like a corollary or something when applied to relationships:

"The chances of finding a partner who is compatible with ONE of you is pretty small; but the chances of finding a partner who is compatible with BOTH of you is almost minuscule. So, by carrying the expectation that this will be an "equal triad", the odds of having that actually HAPPEN are astronomically reduced."

I hope you liked that broken-record, too.
I'll take your advice only if I can tell the TSA you told me to do it.
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  #119  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:16 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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I agree with others. If you do not want your relationship to change do not go any further.

Trust me my whole life has been turned upside down.
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  #120  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:56 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I agree with others. If you do not want your relationship to change do not go any further.

Trust me my whole life has been turned upside down.
My open relationship has turned my friends' worlds upside-down more than my own. I'm used to my life. Other people have to ask what's going on. I've gotten everything from, "I just don't see the point of you being married if you're not having kids" to "how can you call it a "relationship" if you only see each other a few times per year".

I'm like, "Don't you have to pick up your kid from your ex's place now" and "So when is your boyfriend coming to visit from the UK again?"
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