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  #21  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Too many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating. And to oh so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people, some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness, often then are grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.

Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.

Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly, and my ex h and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong, she loved him, not me, they were in total NRE and called themselves soulmates and I went on antidepressants for a year.

I used the dreaded veto, he and she remained friends, he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative friendly therapist, and he did a year of individual counseling and I did 3 years. Then 7 more years of exhausting talks passed by.

Finally we broke up after 30 years together... not just b/c of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 mos after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever being a unicorn or unicorn hunter again.

Instead I dated on my own, got a gf, continued dating on my own, so did she, eventually (3 years later) I got a bf. He and she are somewhat attracted to each other, we've had a few 3somes and hung out together a lot, but it's still more of a V than a triad.

Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

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  #22  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:50 PM
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I am posting via my smart phone. No the most friendly medium to post long flowery replies from. Not that flowery is my style anyway.

Apparently you are another couple looking to be pat on the head and told what they want to hear.

Good luck in your search. My advice is this... Relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
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  #23  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.

Are you talking of people who 'want' to be Unicorns or people who just find themselves in the Unicorn position, because as the latter that was not my experience at all and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self esteem problems (like Daria says "I just have low esteem for everyone else"). So no, not me and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that (I was also, the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met btw).

However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'Unicorn' though. I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a Poly relationship, whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.

To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience but remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from Unicorn Hunting, we read everything, we wrote everything and we educated ourselves very well but at the end of the day, keeping everyone included and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time, it will end up seeming tyrannical.

No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live in Poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third') This should give you an indication on where the power lays with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.

As for me, I would rather have my toenails, pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again.....It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions but no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a Unicorn.

My opinion would be to swing, as others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both, at least it would be more natural, but otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy, for most people (like 95%) it will never happen, as long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck
Natja
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  #24  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
I hear from Poly in the news that Polyamory: Married and Dating is to be repeated proceeding the new series...

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper Unicorns....

I hate that frickin show..........
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  #25  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:19 PM
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Root Root is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Neither. Dirtcustard thinks there are a bunch of profiles on here that are owned by Franklin Veaux. It isn't about YOU at all. If you stick around, you will notice the pattern.
Being a stupid newbie, this is one of the last guesses I would've made as to why I was being accused of being a sock. But fine, ruin my delusions of grandeur.

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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
Yeesh. <brushes off dust>

To my brain, the "We're looking for..." mentality can give off a "desperate" vibe, regardless of whether it's mono or poly. "I'm looking for a GF - are you her?" is just as bad as "We're looking for a GF - are you her?"

I agree with BG's initial post in that if you find someone you want to date, cool... talk to them. Have them meet your wife. See if there's a spark. Let it happen organically.

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.
I get your first point, yeah that seems pretty creeper-y in retrospect when you put it that way.

As for having things happen organic, yeah, especially since this seems to be a pretty popular point. I feel silly but I guess it's easy to lose perspective when you're new to something. Getting hit with the same point enough helps, so thanks to everyone who made it. Was the kind of thing I was hoping to have knocked into me.

And yeah, you're definitely right on the last point. I enjoy the high of it but unfortunately there's no brakes when you want to be a little more sensible for a few minutes. Guess I need to be more aware of it.

Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
It's like realizing you're gay or bi and being all, "I just HAVE to find a same-sex partner right NAO! Where are all the gay people? Oh, you're gay? Wanna have a relationship?"
This was also a meaningful analogy. And I did appreciate some of your other post, even if I didn't make that clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Too many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating. And to oh so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people, some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness, often then are grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.
I reported BG's post at least a thousand times. I'm waiting to get banned for report spam, personally. More seriously, I'll try to keep that in the future when I'm responding. I think there might've been miscommunication, since I only expect fluffy kittens and rainbows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.
Seems legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly, and my ex h and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong, she loved him, not me, they were in total NRE and called themselves soulmates and I went on antidepressants for a year.

I used the dreaded veto, he and she remained friends, he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative friendly therapist, and he did a year of individual counseling and I did 3 years. Then 7 more years of exhausting talks passed by.

Finally we broke up after 30 years together... not just b/c of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 mos after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever being a unicorn or unicorn hunter again.
Ouch. I was hoping to hear about bad experiences, and this gives a lot of perspective, so thank you for rehashing that. Makes more of an impact to hear of actual events as opposed to what might happen, I guess. But, again, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.
We kind of expected it to be somewhat risky. I guess this is another one of those things that should be obvious and just isn't when you have no experience and don't think hard enough, since I'll readily admit I wasn't thinking about the most common people you'd run into. Makes sense in hindsight.

I'm starting to understand this a lot better, so thanks for taking the time. Getting more of an idea why people warn about it, etc. and how it could be a really bad idea if done stupidly. Also getting why the whole "get into it organically" thing is pretty stellar advice.

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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Apparently you are another couple looking to be pat on the head and told what they want to hear.
I'm insulted you think a pat on the head is sufficient. That and candy, at the bare minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Good luck in your search. My advice is this... Relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
I'll sound like a broken record, but I think I'm appreciating these points more and realizing what will need to change if this is going to be viable. At the risk of being defensive, neither of us were angling for a human sex toy by the time I posted. I'll admit both of us were that stupid at first, realized eventually that it was really stupid and inconsiderate. I think it was realizing that I was really that dumb that got me reading more to begin with, ditto for my wife. Anyway, I'm rambling; I do appreciate it, thank you.
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  #26  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:29 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Thank you for taking advice with grace.

We are not saying not to explore poly. Just that is is a road best traveled at each individual persons seperate pace and path.
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Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
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  #27  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:37 PM
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Root Root is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Are you talking of people who 'want' to be Unicorns or people who just find themselves in the Unicorn position, because as the latter that was not my experience at all and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self esteem problems (like Daria says "I just have low esteem for everyone else"). So no, not me and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that (I was also, the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met btw).
I assume the former was implied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'Unicorn' though. I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a Poly relationship, whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.
Broken record, again, but I'm seeing why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience but remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from Unicorn Hunting, we read everything, we wrote everything and we educated ourselves very well but at the end of the day, keeping everyone included and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time, it will end up seeming tyrannical.
I'm not sure. I'll say that the entire experience of admitting to this and seeing what would entail was very healthy for our relationship. Talking about some of what was posted, including things like this, will probably be really helpful as well; so again, thanks to everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live in Poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third') This should give you an indication on where the power lays with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.
I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
As for me, I would rather have my toenails, pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again.....It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions but no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a Unicorn.
Sorry. Again, this puts into context why it's so distasteful, so it does help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
My opinion would be to swing, as others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both, at least it would be more natural, but otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy, for most people (like 95%) it will never happen, as long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck
Natja
No matter what I do appreciate the need to pick a more natural avenue to pursue this, if at all. The suggestion is nice, though. Thanks for the info and advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I hear from Poly in the news that Polyamory: Married and Dating is to be repeated proceeding the new series...

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper Unicorns....

I hate that frickin show..........
Another reason I haven't watched television in two years. I also wear a tinfoil hat and occasionally bathe in Purell. Though I guess I can understand why I'm even more annoying if you guys are getting an influx due to that.
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  #28  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:51 PM
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franchescasc franchescasc is offline
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Default Just remember....

"My wife and I are very similar, I think we both hoped that it would help make things less completely unrealistic and more mostly unrealistic. Anyway, we'll be talking more later about the issue of trying to do dating "together." I think we understand that it's not as reasonable as we might like, plenty of people have said it, but we're not entirely sure how to handle that. Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement; maybe she could say more about that since I'm not psychic (hint, hint). The other issue is honesty about that and our intentions from the beginning. And finally a plain desire for mutual involvement, which I'm pretty sure I'm rambled about."

The biggest thing I've learned through all of this-is to pinpoint the source of discomfort and jealousy. Have your wife ask herself WHY she's uncomfortable to be in a relationship past a certain point without your involvement. There's always a root to discomfort and jealousy....and the biggest gift of polyamory for me has been digging deep to pinpoint these within myself and work on them. For example, I was uncomfortable with FJ & MD spending time alone together. For me, it was because I was scared MD would not be interested in me any more. I was scared they would develop a strong bond, and she wouldn't feel the same for me. Honestly, I still struggle with this. I have been able to ask for reassurances from her, and she has given them to me. But ultimately, I am only responsible for my own happiness and reactions. Anyways....I'm starting to ramble but you get the idea. Discomfort has a reason. Instead of eliminating what is making you uncomfortable-figure out the WHY and deal with THAT. It works better than having someone change their behavior to suit you.

This is a good article: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html
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  #29  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:10 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Root View Post


I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.
Oh I wish I could explain to you how very, very egalitarian we were. Genuinely. But as I said, with the greatest amount of education, good will, communication et al. It still can develop into a hellish world of helldom house in hell land.

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.
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  #30  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:19 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Default Danger Will Robinson Danger!

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Originally Posted by Root View Post
Both of us like our relationship as it is. It's possible to spend a lot of time around another person without them stealing your soul. I'm trying to be lighthearted, but I really do just enjoy being in very active and close relationships.
First, Root, I like how you handled yourself. (Tinfoil hats are so useful! I put one on my dog just in case. ) Actually listening to advice, especially when delivered a bit harshly or snarkily, is not easy to do. Good for you. I also appreciate that you and your wife are trying to avoid the pitfalls of seeking a triad. That is also a fine thing - it would be lovely if more people did that!

I suggest searching here and elsewhere on the web for 'couple privilege'. A caveat - if you are in a couple and so presumably have couple privilege, this does not make you a bad person. It just means you have the responsiblity to think through how having that privilege affects how you think and act - both as individuals and as a couple. There is much discussion about couple privilege here and several poly focused blogs have written about it.

Also read through, when you can, and as much as you can, the fifty zillion posts here on unicorns, triads, etc. It's a lot to go through but reading it will provide you with a sense of what typically goes horribly, horribly wrong with a couple (usually m/f with the man being straight and the woman being bi) seeking a bisexual woman to be with both of them. And you will get a sense of what happens when things go well - such as many people have already mentioned that triads that happen organically seem to work better in the long term.

I am, technically, a unicorn. I date men and women and was single until recently. I am bi/pansexual. I have not had any bad experiences with couples. However, I personally dislike dating couples. One big reason is that I suck at multi-tasking. I find it mentally and emotionally difficult to split (or double?) my focus. This is less of an issue when interacting one on one. However the idea of interactions between all three all or most of the time just makes me tired. (I am also an introvert.)

There is also the reality that I am very, very rarely attracted to both members of a couple. It just doesn't happen that often. Even if I like and enjoy both people, I am usually sexually interested just in one. My current FWB is married. I think the world of his wife - she is full of awesome - but there is zippo sexual chemistry between us. Fortunately, while they like to play together, it is not a requirement. It is my impression that being sexually attracted mostly or entirely just to one 'half' of a couple is really common.

Finally, I quoted the bit above to highlight a concern. It is great that you and your wife are content and happy with each other. It is also great that you are coming to poly out of a place of strength, connection, and joy instead of what poly folks call the 'relationship broken, add more people!' fallacy.

This is something that most people don't understand when moving into ethical non-monogamy and/or poly. Your relationship will change. It will change in ways you or your wife never anticipated. You cannot expect it to remain the same, as it is now. There is no way for you to avoid change and be ethically poly. (I think this is where the stereotypcial 'unicorn hunters' often get themselves into trouble.) Your relationship will change in ways that are utterly unpredictable. You will be surprised and stunned at the twists and turns your life will take. Now this may not be bad. You may find that your relationship with each other is even stronger and more joyful with poly than as a monogamous couple. Or the impact may be more neutral. Or your marriage will crack apart.

If you want to keep your relationship at the place where it is now, don't go the poly route.

If you and your wife decide to take the plunge, just know that the effects and consequences are unpredictable. The rewards may be great - I hope so -but it is not possible to know the outcome before starting this experiment. Of course, that's true of life in general. But poly seems to magnify changes in relationships, kind of like how hothouses grow bigger plants faster.
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