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  #101  
Old 06-13-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Emm View Post
You say you're here to learn, but you appear to be more interested in defending your initial position than anything else. My suggestion is that you read up on Unicorn Hunters both here and elsewhere, and either stop getting defensive when people answer your questions or stop asking questions you don't want answered.
He had (and has) an opportunity to answer my questions. They are actual questions. If he wants to respond, or you want to respond, I'll read a productive response. If you think I'm lying and being defensive, then I'm probably not worth your time.

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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I'm not here to explain why or understand you as the yewneek individual you are, or be your relationship coach. You came on here and asked a bunch of stuff and i posted my bit.

I think YOU are the one who is being "hostile". You say you want to hear what other people think, but you really want to hear all about how fabulous and self-aware you are because you are NOT LIKE all those OTHER unicorn hunters.

Predictable.
I actually appreciated what you said on a few points. I wanted to understand your opinions on others. I wanted to explain my reasoning. I'm actually interested, but I'm dubious as to whether or not you'll believe me. If you don't, I don't see how I'm worth your time or why you're wasting any on me.

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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
on this topic

I don't want to make any assumptions about you Root, because in general doing so is not good practice, and I have my own views of what exactly constitutes the behavior that actually is abusive, which is what I would call true unicorn hunter. Treating you and spouse as abusive hunters unless you are, is wrong.

And because everyone will agree that abuse is wrong as well as treating you as an abuser when you are not, is not the two sides that people are quick to line up with or on.

These types of topics really shouldn't be discussed, pardon my french, for the fuck of it. Which is the only reason I am going to say this, because unless you have never had an profile account here at polyamory.com, or at least never an active one, bringing up this topic as a fresh new face is not a good idea.

But I would be hard pressed to be able to say for sure, and it being wrong to just assume, I will take you at your word if you say otherwise

but because of the situation I feel it is appropriate to ask if you are really as fresh a face as 5 posts makes you appear?

not that I am of any authority or you under any obligation to answer
I assume you're floating the idea of me being a sock? I'm not sure if I should be flattered or a bit worried. I really am a newbie, most of what little I know is from reading these forums and poking through articles online.

That said, I really wasn't hoping to cause much conflict. It's hard to miss the kind of negative attention these threads get if you bother reading the forums a little before posting. I was hoping trying to be somewhat humble would mitigate things and give a chance to get some answers without upsetting people, but I guess I did a poor job of conveying that given some of the responses.

That said, sorry if this seemed "for the fuck of it." My wife and I were genuinely hoping for some non-trivial info or meaningful articles.

And to your later post, it's really fine. You were very polite, I guess I'm just surprised anyone would think that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchescasc View Post
We are very newly exploring a triad, and all sorts of unexpected feelings have come up....you just can't really be prepared for everything. I concur with an earlier poster here who said that successful triads have started with one member of the couple dating someone separately and then slowly introducing the other member of the couple. For us, this all happened naturally-we weren't searching for it at all. I don't know about you, but my husband and I are nearly complete opposites, so finding someone who actually hits it off with both of us is pretty amazing.

Feel free to read through my blog, I've just started it, and pm me if you'd like. I posted a question much like this one (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44029), and my fave advice was from Marcus:

"When it's good, enjoy the crap out of it... when the attention doesn't seem to be coming your way... remember that they aren't responsible for your happiness and take responsibility for it yourself. Remember that a "relationship" isn't a thing, it's just a word used to describe two or more *individuals* sharing themselves to whatever degree for a period of time."

Although we all enjoy the hell out of being together, having one on one time as dyad couples is very important. It's becoming more important than I imagined it would be. Feelings change-often very quickly-and expecting everyone to all feel the same is completely unreasonable. For me-I felt too much pressure to be on the same "new & exciting" page as FJ & MD, and I'm not. I have my own special relationship with MD that I want to nurture and develop naturally. FJ and I are not a "package deal".

Anyways, I could go on forever, but keep reading and asking yourself the hard questions. Don't think to yourself, "Oh, but we won't be like that/feel like that".
My wife and I are very similar, I think we both hoped that it would help make things less completely unrealistic and more mostly unrealistic. Anyway, we'll be talking more later about the issue of trying to do dating "together." I think we understand that it's not as reasonable as we might like, plenty of people have said it, but we're not entirely sure how to handle that. Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement; maybe she could say more about that since I'm not psychic (hint, hint). The other issue is honesty about that and our intentions from the beginning. And finally a plain desire for mutual involvement, which I'm pretty sure I'm rambled about.

I'll certainly look through the blog. It's appreciated.

I do admit I'm worried we just don't have a realistic view of this. I doubt we'd pursue it for some while until there's a better sense of having gotten through the harder questions. I do think we mutually have a desire for excessively close relationships that wouldn't necessarily be many people's pot of tea, but I guess that's something to figure out on our own.

Again, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion View Post
Alright, not even 10 posts in and already we have a new member reading hostility here.

Just a reminder to everyone that this Forum exists for people to come and ask their questions, and be treated with respect. And yes, that applies to Unicorn hunters as well, as their journey's in poly as as valid as any others.
Unless you think he was being hostile I wouldn't put much stock in that. Like I said, if that wasn't his intention, oh well. I am kind of a stupid newbie, just wish the follow-ups might've considered that instead of jumping the gun.
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  #102  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:04 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I'm re=posting my first post in this thread with colors and formatting because I'm so FRUSTRATED by the baby-sitting and hand-holding that takes place on here. I went through this effort JUST to prove that I'm not "hostile". If I were "hostile" I would have left a long time ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earlier Post by BoringGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
1. What can we do in our position to be polite to the rest of the poly community and not be horribly obnoxious, both in real life and on the forums? We'd both like to avoid being, 'that guy,' 'that girl,' or I guess in this case 'that couple.'

Drop the "we-speak", get used to saying "I", "me", "you", "both of us", etc. Stop thinking of you two as one unit. Make separate profiles on forums (on this forum you are not supposed to share a profile) and dating sites. Get into the mindset that you are two separate people. Get comfortable with not being all up in each other's business day in day out.

Quote:
6. Is dating together a really poor idea, or does it just make things harder, or...? My wife and I would like to do it together if possible; we think it would be fun. If it's considered in bad taste or makes it near impossible, however, we'd like to know. If you're of the opinion that it's not advisable, is there any advice on how to work the additional person in later down the line? Again, silly question that's very situation specific, but it seems worth asking. If it's reasonable or can be done if done right, is there anything to make it more platable for the potential individual? We can imagine specifics like trying not to be too much of a 'unit' during the whole affair (at least, I'd find it awkward if I was in their position), but it'd be nice to hear anything relevant since we're still pretty clueless.

7. We think we're prepared for this and we've put some thought into it (and continue to). But we're both vaguely aware that all the planning in the world often doesn't matter. We've been monogamous for all our lives and both of us very heavily so. We're wondering what kinds of issues we may run into once things start progressing (if we're lucky), and if there are any really common scenarios? We're aware jealousy and unfairness are pretty obvious issues to run into as well as a few other things, but there's probably a lot we wouldn't think of.

I think that married people who spend all their time together and feel like they should date "as a couple" because they are joined at the hip and have no separate interests or relationships are not ready/suited for nonmonogamy.


Quote:
2. What can we do to be polite to others when trying to make our intentions clear? I realize this is really situational, but some nebulous advice would be nice. The reasoning behind this is that we've realized that simply poking around 'likely' areas online (like this one!) isn't the most realistic stance to take, but we'd also like to not make friends or likely acquaintances too uncomfortable if possible.

3. What makes a well established couple comfortable to work into if you're polyamorous? We've already gotten over the 'treat them like a real relationship' stage of ignorance, so no lists of weird rules or behind-the-back whispering between ourselves, but there's probably things that we haven't heard about yet and haven't thought about that would be helpful to know.
^^^^^^See this?^^^^^^

See this:

Also, if you go around meeting women and constantly thinking, "Are you in a relationship? Are you bi? Are you attracted to my wife? Are you interested in being in a triad? What does your family think of marriage? What color is your toothbrush? Do you enjoy caring for children and walking dogs?" then you are going to<-- this is a FUTURE POSSIBILITY, not an observation! READ! put out one hell of a creepy vibe.



Editorial: Boring Guy's thoughts - not to be confused with the OP's questions/thoughts:
I do not understand this whole "Yay we're poly now! Let's go find someone to be in a poly relationship with! It's our lifestyle! Yippee!" mentality. I'm one of those, "Here's A, here's B. I don't have to pick one and leave the other" people. Like, when you're in a relationship already and you happen to meet someone you'd date "if I was single"... You don't need the "if i was single" in order to do that. But not, "we want a relationship with a bisexual female. How do we get one of those?"

Quote:

Anyway, this is probably a lot to read. We hope someone takes the time; if so, thanks!
You're welcome. Any time.

Quote:
Even moreso
Ok, you're twice as welcome twice as much of the time.


Quote:
if you have the time to respond to any of the above,

No good deed goes unpunished.


Quote:
or shove us in the direction of an article or post you think would be enlightening.
I'd like to shove something in a direction, but that might come across as "hostile" so I'll just tickle you with a peacock feather instead. How's that?

Last edited by BoringGuy; 06-13-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  #103  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:15 PM
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Yeesh. <brushes off dust>

To my brain, the "We're looking for..." mentality can give off a "desperate" vibe, regardless of whether it's mono or poly. "I'm looking for a GF - are you her?" is just as bad as "We're looking for a GF - are you her?"

I agree with BG's initial post in that if you find someone you want to date, cool... talk to them. Have them meet your wife. See if there's a spark. Let it happen organically.

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.

Last edited by YouAreHere; 06-13-2013 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Extra words words
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  #104  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:18 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.
It's like realizing you're gay or bi and being all, "I just HAVE to find a same-sex partner right NAO! Where are all the gay people? Oh, you're gay? Wanna have a relationship?"
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  #105  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Too many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating. And to oh so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people, some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness, often then are grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.

Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.

Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly, and my ex h and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong, she loved him, not me, they were in total NRE and called themselves soulmates and I went on antidepressants for a year.

I used the dreaded veto, he and she remained friends, he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative friendly therapist, and he did a year of individual counseling and I did 3 years. Then 7 more years of exhausting talks passed by.

Finally we broke up after 30 years together... not just b/c of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 mos after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever being a unicorn or unicorn hunter again.

Instead I dated on my own, got a gf, continued dating on my own, so did she, eventually (3 years later) I got a bf. He and she are somewhat attracted to each other, we've had a few 3somes and hung out together a lot, but it's still more of a V than a triad.

Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.
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  #106  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:50 PM
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I am posting via my smart phone. No the most friendly medium to post long flowery replies from. Not that flowery is my style anyway.

Apparently you are another couple looking to be pat on the head and told what they want to hear.

Good luck in your search. My advice is this... Relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
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  #107  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.

Are you talking of people who 'want' to be Unicorns or people who just find themselves in the Unicorn position, because as the latter that was not my experience at all and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self esteem problems (like Daria says "I just have low esteem for everyone else"). So no, not me and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that (I was also, the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met btw).

However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'Unicorn' though. I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a Poly relationship, whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.

To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience but remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from Unicorn Hunting, we read everything, we wrote everything and we educated ourselves very well but at the end of the day, keeping everyone included and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time, it will end up seeming tyrannical.

No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live in Poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third') This should give you an indication on where the power lays with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.

As for me, I would rather have my toenails, pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again.....It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions but no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a Unicorn.

My opinion would be to swing, as others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both, at least it would be more natural, but otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy, for most people (like 95%) it will never happen, as long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck
Natja
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  #108  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
I hear from Poly in the news that Polyamory: Married and Dating is to be repeated proceeding the new series...

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper Unicorns....

I hate that frickin show..........
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  #109  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Neither. Dirtcustard thinks there are a bunch of profiles on here that are owned by Franklin Veaux. It isn't about YOU at all. If you stick around, you will notice the pattern.
Being a stupid newbie, this is one of the last guesses I would've made as to why I was being accused of being a sock. But fine, ruin my delusions of grandeur.

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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
Yeesh. <brushes off dust>

To my brain, the "We're looking for..." mentality can give off a "desperate" vibe, regardless of whether it's mono or poly. "I'm looking for a GF - are you her?" is just as bad as "We're looking for a GF - are you her?"

I agree with BG's initial post in that if you find someone you want to date, cool... talk to them. Have them meet your wife. See if there's a spark. Let it happen organically.

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.
I get your first point, yeah that seems pretty creeper-y in retrospect when you put it that way.

As for having things happen organic, yeah, especially since this seems to be a pretty popular point. I feel silly but I guess it's easy to lose perspective when you're new to something. Getting hit with the same point enough helps, so thanks to everyone who made it. Was the kind of thing I was hoping to have knocked into me.

And yeah, you're definitely right on the last point. I enjoy the high of it but unfortunately there's no brakes when you want to be a little more sensible for a few minutes. Guess I need to be more aware of it.

Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
It's like realizing you're gay or bi and being all, "I just HAVE to find a same-sex partner right NAO! Where are all the gay people? Oh, you're gay? Wanna have a relationship?"
This was also a meaningful analogy. And I did appreciate some of your other post, even if I didn't make that clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Too many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating. And to oh so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people, some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness, often then are grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.
I reported BG's post at least a thousand times. I'm waiting to get banned for report spam, personally. More seriously, I'll try to keep that in the future when I'm responding. I think there might've been miscommunication, since I only expect fluffy kittens and rainbows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.
Seems legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly, and my ex h and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong, she loved him, not me, they were in total NRE and called themselves soulmates and I went on antidepressants for a year.

I used the dreaded veto, he and she remained friends, he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative friendly therapist, and he did a year of individual counseling and I did 3 years. Then 7 more years of exhausting talks passed by.

Finally we broke up after 30 years together... not just b/c of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 mos after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever being a unicorn or unicorn hunter again.
Ouch. I was hoping to hear about bad experiences, and this gives a lot of perspective, so thank you for rehashing that. Makes more of an impact to hear of actual events as opposed to what might happen, I guess. But, again, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like 2nd class citizens, with no rights. Just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.
We kind of expected it to be somewhat risky. I guess this is another one of those things that should be obvious and just isn't when you have no experience and don't think hard enough, since I'll readily admit I wasn't thinking about the most common people you'd run into. Makes sense in hindsight.

I'm starting to understand this a lot better, so thanks for taking the time. Getting more of an idea why people warn about it, etc. and how it could be a really bad idea if done stupidly. Also getting why the whole "get into it organically" thing is pretty stellar advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Apparently you are another couple looking to be pat on the head and told what they want to hear.
I'm insulted you think a pat on the head is sufficient. That and candy, at the bare minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Good luck in your search. My advice is this... Relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.
I'll sound like a broken record, but I think I'm appreciating these points more and realizing what will need to change if this is going to be viable. At the risk of being defensive, neither of us were angling for a human sex toy by the time I posted. I'll admit both of us were that stupid at first, realized eventually that it was really stupid and inconsiderate. I think it was realizing that I was really that dumb that got me reading more to begin with, ditto for my wife. Anyway, I'm rambling; I do appreciate it, thank you.
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  #110  
Old 06-13-2013, 03:29 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Thank you for taking advice with grace.

We are not saying not to explore poly. Just that is is a road best traveled at each individual persons seperate pace and path.
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