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  #11  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:10 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Well personally i think incest should squick EVERYONE out, but that's just me. I'm a child-free only-child and i've never been diddled by my relatives, so maybe i'm missing out on something great, but i will never know, thanks.

I can't believe you thought i was serious. Seriously?
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  #12  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:18 PM
tree166 tree166 is offline
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In all honesty, it wouldn't be the first time I got called judgmental for being like "ew incest".
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:20 PM
tree166 tree166 is offline
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Dan Savage also get routinely called out for his belief that incest is wrong and gross. He's gay so clearly he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:26 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by tree166 View Post
In all honesty, it wouldn't be the first time I got called judgmental for being like "ew incest".

If someone calls me "judgmental" for being all "ew incest", i say, "yes, thank you". If you are going to be judgmental about one thing only ever, then incest is an excellent choice of topic for that.

And to all the people reading who are thinking, "but, but - OTHER CULTURES do it!" If other cultures jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? Other Cultures also force women to marry their rapists and make small children work in sweat shops. Maybe those things are ok because uptight Westerners just don't "get" Other Cultures.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2013, 10:55 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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We require condoms with any partners outside of our agreed upon trio that is fluid bonded.
I wouldn't have sex with someone who was so.... open with their body myself. I don't believe GG would either but Maca might.

Of course, I also won't have sex with someone until I've known them for at least a year as a friend. Shrug-I'm picky.

HPV and Herpes aren't big concerns in my book-I have herpes, got it at 15 from my daughters father.
On the other hand, I am very obnoxious about being careful with that. In 15 years, Maca hasn't gotten it and GG hasn't in 18 years of being sexually involved and fluid bonded.
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2013, 01:58 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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We have a chart I put together with different barrier requirements for different STIs, that means some activities are off the table period when dating people with certain STI's. Some will require gloves or other barriers, or we can choose to not do the activity. I don't mind having gloves used on me, or using gloves. I've seen people in the community here have much looser restrictions on what they do (generally just condoms for sex) to stricter than I have.

I don't worry specifically about HPV except for the genital warts strains. I get pap smears and go to the dentist regularly, so if anything starts growing it should be caught early, and from everything I've read and been told by my doctors, anything cancerous from HPV strains grows very slowly. edit: when I specifically asked if I should get more frequent pap smears because I had multiple partners, I was told no.

I mitigate risks by dating people who get tested regularly, who also date people who get tested regularly. I tend to stop using barriers for oral sex after a period of time with partners if they aren't having casual encounters and just in steady relationships, just like I will start using them again if they start doing so (who am I fooling, now that they dont make non lubed condoms without reservoir tips, that just means no oral sex for the guys)

Our agreements are subject to change, existing relationships might easily be negotiated down to less barriers with time and trust even with some STI's I'd prefer to never get, but having it all written down in black and white can help keep the "but I really like this person" stuff from screwing with common sense and objectivity (and its up to each person to decide for themselves where that line is).
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 06-12-2013 at 02:05 AM.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:15 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparklepop View Post
It's not so much that she'll sleep with people the second time she's met them, but that with women, this will mean unprotected sex.
I know very few women who use barriers for casual sex with other women, for the record. I'm all in favor of dental dams and gloves if that's what you need to be comfortable, but transmission rates of STIs for lesbian sex acts are, objectively, really low. It's no different than her "unprotected fingers and oral" policy with men -- roughly the same risks there. I just feel like some people think that there should be equivalent policies -- you use latex for men, so surely you should for women too -- without objectively considering that the acts involved are different.

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Originally Posted by sparklepop View Post
My GFs reaction also gave me pause - she feels that this girl is more of a high-risk case than someone who, say, just has one parter who is monogamous to them.
Your gf is absolutely right. I'm surprised it would give you pause, when it just seems obvious that someone in a mono relationship, if both partners have been tested, is basically nil risk, whereas someone who's not monogamous has higher risk. And yeah, this girl, who sleeps with many people, will have higher risk than someone who only sleeps with a handful of people that they know well.

For myself, I've chosen what most would consider to be a fairly high degree of risk. I'm fluid bonded with a guy who's also fluid bonded with a full-service escort. She uses condoms for PIV/PIA with everyone but him, but engages in unprotected oral and manual sex, and he and I also both have unprotected oral and manual sex with other partners, some serious, some casual.

I spent a couple of months thinking hard about the decision to be fluid bonded with him. I did a LOT of reading about transmission rates. Basically, what I came to was very similar to what Opal laid out above.

I was terrified of the life-long, potentially deadly diseases... and yet oral transmission of those is extremely, extremely low if it's even possible, Scientists who have been studying this for decades still aren't sure if oral transmission of HIV and Hep can actually occur at all if your mouth isn't bleeding. And as for those diseases when it comes to PIV/PIA, condoms are essentially completely effective against them if you use them consistently and correctly.

I had to look at studies like that over and over before the rational part of my brain was able to overcome the scared part and say "Look, yes, there may technically be a risk for these extremely dangerous things... but it's infinitesimal. Basing any decisions on that is just silly."

That left things that were curable if you catch them early enough -- and we all get tested regularly, so no worries there -- and things that are lifelong but merely inconveniencing, such as HPV and HSV. I've already had a case of the type of HPV that causes genital warts (I was 18 at the time, had only had a handful of partners), which are easily treatable, and I've been vaccinated against the types that cause cancer.

So, in the end, it was down to just worrying about HSV. HSV can be asymptomatic and can be transmitted by contact with the skin around the genitals, meaning condoms aren't 100% against it. I'm not blase about it -- I'd really rather NOT get HSV -- but if it happens it will not be the end of my world.

I expect my partners to follow their gut, much as you describe the woman in question doing, to disclose ANY relevant information, just as you describe her doing, and to use condoms for the high risk activities, just as you describe her doing. So, would I sleep with her if I really liked her? Absolutely.

But my risk tolerance doesn't have to be your risk tolerance! If you're not comfortable with her lifestyle, you'll rest easier NOT sleeping with her. There are other fish in the sea.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:43 AM
london london is offline
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If I fuck a thousand guys a month, and get tested every month for stds, I am safer than a monogamous couple who have never had an std test. How safe you are depends on how regularly you get tested. If everyone shifted their focus from avoiding an std altogether to getting any stds they contract diagnosed quickly, I suspect we would have less std rates.

To the OP: use condoms for sex, get std tests regularly. Simple.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2013, 02:49 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
If I fuck a thousand guys a month, and get tested every month for stds, I am safer than a monogamous couple who have never had an std test. How safe you are depends on how regularly you get tested. If everyone shifted their focus from avoiding an std altogether to getting any stds they contract diagnosed quickly, I suspect we would have less std rates.

To the OP: use condoms for sex, get std tests regularly. Simple.
I don't think this makes sense. A monogamous couple is completely safe from anything that one of them didn't already have. And since it's extremely unlikely that, between the two of them, they have every STI known to man, if any at all, without ever having had any recognizable symptoms, that means they'd be safe from most, possibly all, STIs. They might be less informed than you in your hypothetical scenario, and obviously they ought to get tested just in case. But to say they'd be less safe, just, no.

Partner volume has a large impact on your exposure to STIs, and someone with many partners has more exposure, that's just common sense. Some STIs that you can catch even with perfect condom use, namely HPV or HSV, are not curable, so if you consider those risks unacceptable, you should be more picky about how many people you sleep with, and how many people they sleep with, while ALSO expecting regular testing all around. No need for it to be an either/or thing. If you're really looking at all the elements of what "risk" means to you, it's a nuanced thing. Not simple at all, even if the ultimate decision you end up making is.
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:26 PM
london london is offline
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This monogamous coupe, this guy at least, has had prior partners. The people who are most likely to hoard an STD are those who think their holier than thou attitude to sex will protect them.
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