Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:54 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
Default HPV and promiscuity

Hi guys,

I went on a date last night with a girl who told me that she has HPV1. I have to confess that I am not overly knowledgable about it and so, whilst doing my own research online, I wanted to come and ask for personal experiences and viewpoints of people here.

I'm very cautious about STIs, especially because I have a primary partner and want to consider her health as well as my own. I have only slept with two other women during our two year relationship and saw their most recent test results before sleeping with them.

The girl I went on a date with has quite a colourful past and present. She used to be a stripper, a member of a Harem, she told me that she used to make out with her sister and masturbate in the same room as her when they were teenagers, she has a husband and other partners and attends orgies where she says she sleeps with people the second time she's met them.

So aside from the HPV situation, there is the promiscuity issue. Of course, I know that some people who sleep around are even more strict about getting tested than some who hardly have any partners. The problem is that I have always had long-term mostly monogamous relationships in the past - I've only slept with 7 people at the age of 28 and I'm definitely not ashamed of that fact! But this can make me squeamish and judgmental about those who are less... fussy as fuck?

I'm trying to make a judgement call without being judgmental, which I don't feel is fair on her. I spoke to my GF about it this morning and she was very tense about the conversation. She reminded me that she met a guy last year who she cut the cord with immediately because he had the Herpes virus. However, she did also date a guy more recently who admitted he slept with other casual partners without protection. She always used a condom with him, but didn't barrier herself when he performed oral sex on her. We both felt uneasy about his practices with other women, but didn't really know where to draw the line.

Do you have a guideline about certain viruses? How do you approach safe sex in your relationship? Where do you think the balance lies between being responsible without being over-cautious?

Just to add - please, please, please don't mistake my post to mean that I feel you are promiscuous if you have HPV, or any other virus. Or that I am saying promiscuity is bad. i'm here because promiscuity makes me concerned for my health and i *don't* want to be judgmental. It is difficult to ask this question without negative connotations being taken. The promiscuity and STI issues I'm trying to raise are two separate things.
__________________

Me: (30f) open poly
Serious long-distance relationship with GF (40f)
Casual FWB with Descartes (27f)



“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." ~ Buddha

Last edited by sparklepop; 06-11-2013 at 08:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:22 PM
tree166 tree166 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 31
Default

Statistically, something like 80% of sexually active adults have (or are carriers for) HPV. I don't want to say that it's not a big deal because it can cause issues, but it's certainly not uncommon. There's not even an HPV test for men. I myself have it, and I've only ever had unprotected sex with long term partners (like my husband, and various monogamous boyfriends) who I trusted to be safe with other people, so it's a mystery. I'm on board with other STIs, like Herpes, HIV and Hep C, being deal breakers, but I also would have avoided the casual sex without condoms guy. Those are the type who in my experience are most likely to "forget" to use them or will whine about how they don't feel as good. We're not in high school. That's not acceptable from an adult and makes me wonder if he gives any thought to me as more than a vagina if he's so willing to put me at risk.

As for the girl, it almost sounds like you're more squicked out by her overall level of experience and activities (OMG stripper!!) than the actual amount of sex she's had. So what if she sleeps with people the second time she's met them? What you fail to mention is whether or not she's being safe. There is a risk for STIs every single time anyone has sex - if they're actively attempting to mitigate those risks and preserve the health and well being of everyone involved, that's the important part.

You have nothing to be ashamed of as far as your number, but you are judging this girl. You call her perceived promiscuity an issue and you're ready to write her off for "sleeping around". Experience is a good thing, especially when it comes to sex. You also underestimate how difficult it is to find other poly people in this judgy, monogamous world. If you like this girl, don't write her off for her "colourful" behavior.

EDIT - Though I don't blame you for being a little skeezed by the incest. I have a sister. We never made out, because that's gross. The masturbation is pretty common for teenagers who have to share a room, and college roommates. just ask Dear Prudie - http://www.slate.com/articles/life/d..._affairs_.html

Last edited by tree166; 06-11-2013 at 07:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:38 PM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

Her promiscuity is only an issue for you. Have you and your wife had recent STD results?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:28 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 1,314
Default Bad decision making? Or just adventurous?

Regarding the STI question, you will have to do your own risk analysis and determine what risks you are willing to take and what you are not willing to risk. That is a very personal decision. But please, base your decision on facts and not stigma.

Herpes is unpleasant and can have some very serious consequences for pregnant women and fetuses. You may break out in embarrasing places. You may have to take relatively inexpensive suppressive drugs that have few side effects and work well for most people. There is an embarrassing stigma. However, at least in the United States, most sexually active people have either been infected or exposed to HSV1 or HSV2. (FYI, did you know that chicken pox is part of the herpes 'family'. Shingles too.) Ultimately, herpes is an unpleasant, embarrassing skin disease that will not kill you.

HPV is probably as prevalent as herpes in sexually active people. I read somewhere that if you have had 5 sexual partners in your lifetime, then, statistically, you've been exposed or infected with an HPV strain. THe vast majority of HPV strains do absolutely nothing - no warts, no cancers. Some do cause genital warts - again embarrasing, unpleasant skin condition. Others can cause abnormal cells to grow - most commonly in the cervix of women. These are the 'high risk' HPV strains and it is one of these that I have. This is serious and not to be taken lightly. I know women killed by cervical cancer. However, the risk is low that actual cancer will develop, even if one has abnormal cells (as I do presently). So if one gets regular pap smears and monitors the situation, the likelihood of a good outcome - no cancer or less good - cancer but caught early - is much higher.

In contrast, syphilis, left untreated, can destroy the brain. HIV is fatal (I know current treatments greatly help with longevity and quality of life but it is still a fatal disease). Gonorrhea can destroy young women's fertility. The hepatitis strains have all kinds of very serious health impacts, up to organ failure and needing transpants.

I decided that I will not have sex with someone with the above infections, even with barriers. Barriers do protect really well against these diseases transmitted via fluid exposure. This is where I personally draw my risk line. And many of these diseases are developing drug resistance.

It frustrates me that people reject out of hand folks who do the responsible thing and inform partners of herpes or HPV. (I do acknowledge that everyone has this right.) It is very likely that both you and your partner were exposed to HPV or herpes or both by direct or indirect sexual contact with the guy who didn't use barriers with casual partners, and who didn't use barriers for oral sex with your partner. Your partner might as well slept with the man with herpes - it would have been less risky. You had a known situation with someone willing to be honest and presumably take appropriate caution (barriers, be on suppressive drugs, monitor himself for outbreaks and refrain from sex during outbreaks). Instead the person who takes unknown risks with his health and everyone he has sex with and everyone his partners have sex with gets rewarded. It is this behavior - which I see *everywhere* - that encourages people to lie about STI status. Sparkle, this is not directed just at you or your partner. It just frustrates me so much.

As for the wild child you went out on a date with? Is her sexual history a story of bad decision making? Sometimes promiscuity and other behaviors can indicate that someone consistently makes poor decisions. But other times, it just means they made decisions differently than you would have but are fine in making good decisions for themselves. They are just more adventuresome, relaxed, open to new experiences, whatever. I would think that is the crux of the decision you need to make about her. Adventuresome? Or bad decison maker?

And I am squicked by the incest too.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:38 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
Default

Hi tree,

Thank you for your response.

It's really helpful to hear what the deal breakers are for you. I would have also avoided sex with no condom guy - and yes, of course, he used to whinge to her about having to use one with her.

It's not so much that she'll sleep with people the second time she's met them, but that with women, this will mean unprotected sex. Sometimes she'll sleep with strangers. With men, it's a condom, but unprotected fingers and oral. I think that what I am feeling is that the general picture - unhealthy incest relationship (they had threesomes with men together too, but they would not have sex with each other), stripper, Harem (she met a rich old guy who paid her to live with and have sex with him), copious casual sex partners, etc. she said that her general rule of thumb is not to sleep with people she gets a bad feeling about and to sleep with people she gets a gut feeling are clean.

I do know that I am being judgmental - that's why I'm here, to have some sense knocked into me where I am failing. I don't want to be judgmental - I do want to be sensible. My GFs reaction also gave me pause - she feels that this girl is more of a high-risk case than someone who, say, just has one parter who is monogamous to them.

So are we generally saying that as long as we use dental dams and gloves with women, we're being safe? As long as we see their test results, there's no need for all the latex?
__________________

Me: (30f) open poly
Serious long-distance relationship with GF (40f)
Casual FWB with Descartes (27f)



“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:39 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

OMG OMG incest again! How DARE anyone be "squicked" (i love that word, i could say it all day and not lose the meaning to the sound of it) by two people expressing LOVE for each other! Who cares what OTHER people do behind closed doors, as long as its consensual! Stop bringing YOUR ISSUES into OTHER THREADS. Omg, people, please. Stop ATTACKING.

Besides, two sisters masturbating and making out together is HAWT, right? Especially if one of them is a stripper...

Last edited by BoringGuy; 06-11-2013 at 08:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:44 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Her promiscuity is only an issue for you. Have you and your wife had recent STD results?
Her promiscuity is an issue for me - that's precisely why I'm here. To learn, think and avoid being judgmental. Myself and my girlfriend are tested every six months, or after each secondary relationship ends and are clear.
__________________

Me: (30f) open poly
Serious long-distance relationship with GF (40f)
Casual FWB with Descartes (27f)



“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:46 PM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

Personally I don't think that gloves or dental dams are necessary. I wouldn't agree to that. My agreements just involve condoms for anal and vaginal sex and regular std tests.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:00 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

I'm curious who here reading this actually USES gloves and dental dams. For all the talk about them (throughout my experience and observation) i have never met a single person who says, "gee i'd really like to eat your pussy and stick my fingers in your anus, just a sec let me put on my gloves and grab a dental dam or two". In fact, the only times i've heard of people giving blow jobs on a penis with a condom (other than "escorts") is when you're getting ready to fuck and it needs "help". I even talked about this with my physician and they didn't disagree or try to qualify it for me (this doctor specializes in an area of medicine that sees lots of testing for STD's and other conditions associated with sex and reproduction).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:04 PM
tree166 tree166 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 31
Default

The gender of her sexual partners is completely irrelevant - sex with women doesn't HAVE mean unprotected, that's just her choice. This girl is clearly not doing anything to mitigate her risks other than, basically, hoping for the best. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with calling that a deal breaker. It's reckless at best. To answer opalescent, it's pretty clear that she just makes bad decisions.

That said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the other behaviors you mentioned. If some old rich dude offered to pay me for sex I'd do it in a New York minute. Stripping is just a job. Hugh Hefner routinely dates (and has group sex) with siblings. I don't know many men who don't have a twin fantasy. Just because you wouldn't do these things or don't approve of them, it doesn't make them inherently wrong. The people who make the choice to have many casual sex partners but do it SAFELY with a degree of intelligence, more power to them. Your perception of "copious" might be what I would call "a few", based on our life experiences. It doesn't make her a bad person to like sex and spread joy to the masses, it's being reckless about it that's the real issue.

And BoringGuy - dude, I didn't say that incest is inherently wrong either. I said it squicks ME out. I would never do it because *I* think it's gross. Showing affection and love for my sister does not mean I stick my tongue down her throat. Do I agree with SCIENCE that the progeny of incestuous unions often results in health issues and a generally weakened gene pool? YES. For proof look at European royalty over the last few centuries. But whatever consensual adults decide to do is cool with me as long as no one is getting hurt.

EDIT - I'm also in total agreement that gloves are overkill. Wash your hands and keep them out of your mouth. No one wants to date a germophobe.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
casual sex, condoms, disease prevention, hpv, promiscuity, protection, safe sex, safer sex, stds, sti's

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:37 AM.