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  #11  
Old 05-26-2013, 09:34 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
In general, people on here counsel others NOT to issue ultimatums due to the fact that the manipulative type of ultimatums, "you better or else" almost always backfire, and when they do not backfire, there are often repercussions that set the relationship up for failure at some point.
I'm fairly well acquainted with this language issue since I've had open/poly relationships for over 2 decades. And in this case, ultimatum is the precise word I feel is called for because there really aren't many other linguistic options.

BoringGuy, I think your comment was more nuanced, so this isn't directed at you, but one of the dangers I see with the folks who think the word "ultimatum" or its essence are the worst thing in poly relationships is that it often guilt-trips people into thinking that they have to endlessly negotiate, even beyond their own hard boundaries. Yes, all relationships (human/non-human) are contingent and are built on a series of negotiations and compromises, but I think limits are necessary for self-respect, well-being, survival (particularly for many women).

I would counsel genebean to really try to think about what those limits are for her to be happy and have self-respect, and then use that to guide both forgiveness and the next steps. If your boyfriend(?) keeps pushing past your stated limits without taking responsibility and acknowledging his need to change his behavior if he wants to be with you, is that healthy for you? What would you lose by breaking up? And, more significantly, what would you gain by not being with him?
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2013, 01:38 PM
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Boundaries are by definition, ultimatums.

Boundaries are good things to have because they say to the other person, this is what I will tolerate and this is what I will not. They are the essence of respecting yourself as a person.

Forgiveness is the mechanism that allows a person who has been wronged to move on with their life. You can forgive someone and remove them from your life. It doesn't mean that you have to continue a relationship with them if you believe they will continue to disrespect your boundaries. Forgiveness is not for the wrong doer. It is for the wronged.

Forgiveness is radical acceptance of the pain and any resulting anger. Give yourself permission to feel these things. It means you are alive. Then forgiveness is the conscious decision to let it go. A wise man once said that attachment is the source of all misery. Let go your attachment to the pain. Let go your attachment to the anger. It won't happen overnight. It's a process. It will come back. Each time it does, let it go again. Eventually you will find your peace.
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2013, 05:12 PM
genebean genebean is offline
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Default my dog is singing along to my crying.

I ended it. It fucking hurts, really fucking badly. I love him, I doubt l'll ever stop loving him but I can't do it anymore. I can't expect him to understand my betrayal and how betrayed I felt by situations in the past. We haven't moved forward from any of the shit that has gone down and that's all I wanted before we explored poly again. Is gaining trust too much to ask? But he wasn't willing to do the work unless it involved his immediate freedom, which is tough to give without trust. He ostracized me for feeling the way I did time and time again. He resented my hesitation. It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:19 PM
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I ended it. It fucking hurts, really fucking badly. I love him, I doubt l'll ever stop loving him but I can't do it anymore. I can't expect him to understand my betrayal and how betrayed I felt by situations in the past. We haven't moved forward from any of the shit that has gone down and that's all I wanted before we explored poly again. Is gaining trust too much to ask? But he wasn't willing to do the work unless it involved his immediate freedom, which is tough to give without trust. He ostracized me for feeling the way I did time and time again. He resented my hesitation. It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2013, 05:21 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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The first step in building a respectful relationship, is to respect yourself and your own boundaries. Therefore-if he wasn't respecting them, your best step is to work, one step at a time through the pain of leaving so that you can solidly set your foot down in respecting your own boundaries. Good job.
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  #16  
Old 05-27-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by genebean View Post
I ended it . . . It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.
I am sorry it feels so shitty for you right now, but it sounds like the right thing to do in this case. Walking away is a step toward building up your self-esteem, and opens the door for more, better, loving possibilities in your life. No one should stay in relationships where they are disrespected, even if there is love there.

STAY STRONG! In six months, in a year, you will look back at this and feel grateful that you were brave enough to let go of someone you loved but who consistently hurt you with his disregard for who you are.

I have a strong feeling that good things will come your way now that you have said, "No more!" and are willing to move forward in your life without him.
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:16 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I'm sorry genebean. I think it is better for you in the long run. But it does hurt and while that pain will ease with time, I know how little consolation that is right now.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:39 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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So sorry to hear about your pain.
I initiated a break up in December. I don't know what your resources are, but my break up coincided with a trip to a nice place for vacation; I would recommend it if you can treat yourself. I spent some alone time really using the situation to regain some of the balance I had lost in myself as that relationship ended. I came out of it stronger.
Also, if there's any "let's be friends now" talk, try to resist it until you've healed. You don't owe anyone your friendship until you are ready to give it willingly.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:06 PM
london london is offline
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Default Ultimatums

There are often going to be times in a relationship where you reach an impasse: your needs become oppositional and the actions that occur as a result of these needs hurt the other person. This is something that they cannot tolerate and nor do I think they should have to, they have to raise the issue. They have to give an ultimatum, of sorts. Now, ultimatum has such bad connotations because often, the way they are presented belittles, demonizes and rejects the right the other person has to want different things that you do.

For example, lets use a situation where a wife does not want to be part of a non monogamous relationship anymore because she is unable to feel valued whilst her partner is seeing other people. A bad way to present this would be to state that you either give up your other partners or it's over. A good way to present this would be to state that she is unable to feel valued in this type of relationship, despite any efforts he has made to reassure her of her place in his life, and she cannot continue the relationship and be happy and healthy. They both mean the same thing: I can't do this anymore, I am going to end the relationship if it doesn't stop, but one acknowledges that his needs are not inferior or "less right" than her needs. Even if they are different from the norm. It also acknowledges any efforts he has made in order to maintain their relationship.

The most important part of making this a good ultimatum rather than a bad one is if they state that they need to have non monogamous relationships to be happy and healthy, the wife cannot vilify them for having different needs. She cannot make him out to be a bad guy for not simply agreeing to do what make makes her happy. She has to accept that they want different things at this point and that is okay.
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