Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Life stories and blogs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #431  
Old 05-25-2013, 02:53 PM
FullofLove1052's Avatar
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I appreciate you baring your soul here to this particular polyamorous community.

But.

I must protest at your constant bashing of "poly." You, Si and Matt were NOT poly. At best, you had a mistress which Matt extremely grudgingly tolerated. He did not approve, he did not take joy in your relationship with Si. He seems to have resented almost every moment you shared with her, and abhorred almost every moment she spent in his presence or around the children.

So, I wish you'd stop characterizing the lovestyle of your past 12 years as polyamory. The definition of polyamory is loving more than one, with the knowledge and approval of all participants. Obviously Matt did NOT approve. Obviously you did whatever the hell you wanted without giving a crap about his needs or desires. You ignored him, didn't talk to him, conspired with Si without including him, et cetera, et cetera.

I wish you and Matt would understand you (plural) did NOT practice polyamory. And I just have to put that here, for newbie readers who may be on the fence and horrified at what you call polyamory.

When you wonder to yourself if you should ever practice poly "again," it's a false concept. You never did in the first place.
First of all, my experiences are my own. I am not bashing poly. I am speaking about my own fucking experiences. I am sorry you have such a problem with how I did things. I give myself enough grief and the last thing I need is criticism. I have admitted that I should have done shit better. There is no one definition of poly. Obviously, I have the damn ability to love more than one, so your comment is way off base and unwarranted. I do not need you to post warning messages to newbies. If you had a problem, you should have PMed me. With that, I am done. Have a nice day.
__________________
Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...
Mr. Grey - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3) children.
Closed.

My Blog

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-25-2013 at 03:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #432  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:13 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
First of all, my experiences are my own. I am not bashing poly. I am speaking about my own fucking experiences.
Your brand of what you call poly was missing the "amory" bit as far as Matt was concerned. You may love him, in your way, and he loves you, still, somehow, but the first rule of being polyamorous is "communication, communication, communication." Loving isn't enough. Respect and actually caring about your loved one's feelings is needed or, goodbye Charlie.

Quote:
I am sorry you have such a problem with how I did things. I give myself enough grief and the last thing I need is criticism. I have admitted that I should have done shit better.
Yes, so I am just agreeing with you. It is terrific you are finally becoming aware of your callous behavior. Better late than never. I also don't take Matt off the hook. He claims he protested over the years, was continually ignored and then he just rolled over and gave up. Somehow though, he finally made his feelings known! Why now and not 10 years ago, I don't know. I guess it's a Papa Bear thing. He handled it for himself by kowtowing to your selfish behavior, but once his kids were involved he finally roared.

Quote:
There is no one definition of poly. Obviously, I have the damn ability to love more than one, so your comment is way off base and unwarranted. With that, I am done. Have a nice day.
I'm sorry, I just felt it had to be said, especially since you're constantly wondering if you could or should "be poly" again in future, with Si or with someone else. Since you've not really had experience being poly, imho, this is the wrong question to be asking. That is all I am saying. There is no "one twue poly" but somehow I think riding roughshod over your husband's feelings, ignoring him, and him rolling over and playing dead is not part of polyamory.

It's great you've making changes, I do applaud that, and wish you (all 6 of you, Ry, Si, Matt, Nanny J and duckies) well.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #433  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:50 PM
FullofLove1052's Avatar
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Your brand of what you call poly was missing the "amory" bit as far as Matt was concerned. You may love him, in your way, and he loves you, still, somehow, but the first rule of being polyamorous is "communication, communication, communication." Loving isn't enough. Respect and actually caring about your loved one's feelings is needed or, goodbye Charlie.



Yes, so I am just agreeing with you. It is terrific you are finally becoming aware of your callous behavior. Better late than never. I also don't take Matt off the hook. He claims he protested over the years, was continually ignored and then he just rolled over and gave up. Somehow though, he finally made his feelings known! Why now and not 10 years ago, I don't know. I guess it's a Papa Bear thing. He handled it for himself by kowtowing to your selfish behavior, but once his kids were involved he finally roared.



I'm sorry, I just felt it had to be said, especially since you're constantly wondering if you could or should "be poly" again in future, with Si or with someone else. Since you've not really had experience being poly, imho, this is the wrong question to be asking. That is all I am saying. There is no "one twue poly" but somehow I think riding roughshod over your husband's feelings, ignoring him, and him rolling over and playing dead is not part of polyamory.

It's great you've making changes, I do applaud that, and wish you (all 6 of you, Ry, Si, Matt, Nanny J and duckies) well.
I know I made mistakes. I want my mistakes to be a lesson. I am far from perfect. I could have communicated better. I should have listened to him. I should never have gotten complacent. If I had lost my marriage, I would have been to blame. I acknowledge that I was selfish. I acknowledge I was gone more than I was home. I admit that the balance was lost. I admit that my marriage suffered. I admit that I was wrong for how I managed the two relationships. His feelings towards non-monogamy are justified. I am not the spokesperson for poly. I am one lesson in how not to do things. The way I did things was wrong. If it can save someone from causing as much destruction as I did over the years, I am happy for that.

My mistakes do not change my beliefs in poly. I believe in it. I have for the past 17 years. I messed up on my journey, and I am trying my damndest to get back on the right path and remember that I did it right at some point.

I appreciate your opinion, and I apologise for how I took what you said. I can admit that I did practice it wrong for a huge chunk of time.
__________________
Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...
Mr. Grey - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3) children.
Closed.

My Blog
Reply With Quote
  #434  
Old 05-25-2013, 07:37 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 417
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
The definition of polyamory is loving more than one, with the knowledge and approval of all participants.
I apologize for hijacking your blog FoL, but I just wanted to say, thank you Magdlyn. This just was a huge eye opener for me. For a long time I thought the knowledge of all involved, was the one thing that separated poly from cheating. My own recent issues stem exactly from the fact that knowledge isn't enough. When everyone involved is not approving and supporting, it's not the kind of poly I want to practice.. Will muse some more about this on my own blog I think.
__________________
early forties, straight.
Reply With Quote
  #435  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:28 PM
FullofLove1052's Avatar
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 875
Default

From 2000-2012, Matt and Si were cordial. Cordial is pushing it. I MIGHT speak if I see you, but if I do not, it is water under the bridge. That was their dynamic. They were NOT friends, were never around each other in more than a social capacity, and metamours in name only. To this day, they have zero mutual friends and no shared interests, so the odds of them running into one another while on the streets or while out is about as likely as a pig flying over a blue moon.

The first eight years of this poly journey were uneventful--relationships wise. I had balance then. I was working towards my career, so they both had to deal with seeing me on a limited basis. Si worked overnight and was working erratic hours, so most of my free time was spent with Matt. That was a given seeing as how we lived together. At that point, staying overnight was not an option. I saw her when I could and when time permitted.

When I found out I was pregnant in 2008, naturally I wanted both of my loves to be part of that joyous time. I assured Matt that she would be involved in a limited manner. Aunt/godmother type of deal. The further my pregnancy progressed, the more the idea of a poly family with three co-parents appealed to me. I cannot blame it on pregnancy brain, but I did not tell him what my vision was immediately. That was a huge mistake. She was at every appointment. Just like him. She was in the room when our daughter was born, too. Keep in mind that Matt was not friends with her so she was a virtual stranger. Here this "stranger" is sharing in intimate moments minutes after we welcomed our first child. He came to me and then her a few months after her birth and asked her to step back so that we could bond privately as a family. She agreed to do so.

Most of the time from my daughter's birth to her third year of life was uneventful. Usual parenting stuff. Matt's trigger came in the form of me telling him that Si had been given rights like a parent and hearing our daughter call her mum. I did not ask him. I told him. At that point, she was around much more, more involved, and they had formed a solid bond by the time he wanted to break it. He had came to me on numerous occasions before then and expressed concerns about how close they were. Reminding me of the agreement that we would be the parents went out the window. This was the true start of his resentment. This was the one thing he had been trying to prevent because it was not his idea of what family was. Despite the untraditional nature of our marriage, he wanted a traditional upbringing for our children. Traditional meaning two parents with opinions and views from loved ones being accepted. No veto power, no third parent...none of that. I will explain why it increased as time went on. They are separate issues that stem back to the way I handled poly.

Due to my decision to grant her these rights, it caused problems. Problems like him having to run his plans by her to make sure she did not have plans and possibly changing his plans because of her. He was cornered into co-parenting with not one but two other people. At this point, he was still fighting me and trying his damndest to stop it. He resented having to check in with someone he still at this point viewed as an outside party and unneeded parental figure. My mistake in this instance was telling him things that further infuriated him. "Oh, but she loves them like her own and just as much as we do." After fighting with me for a couple of years, he threw in the towel and said forget it because I was not listening and not even trying to compromise.

In late 2011, I got pregnant with our son. Most would think this was a chance to do things over and not make the same mistakes. I did the same things over again. She was at appointments, in the room when he was born, had a say how we decorated the nursery, and was given the same rights like with our daughter. This pregnancy was different because I had to have surgery in April 2012, and I was placed on bed rest from the day I returned home a week later until I delivered him on 30 June. During that time, I did not have dates with Si. I was on strict bed rest. I could only be up 15 minutes per hour. Matt was my support in every sense of the word. He took off four weeks to help me during the postop period. I did not ask him or her to do that. He did that because he wanted to. I later found out Si was envious of the time he spent with me during that time. There was nothing romantic about it. Naturally, I leaned on him during what was a very challenging time. I am sure my relationship with Si suffered from the lack of time, but my baby's health was more important than my relationship with her. The burden of spending time together should not have fallen on me.

This is the issue with time management and how I got to be a 20% wife. Before the birth of our son, she changed jobs, so she was able to be around more, which in turn meant she had more time for me and our relationship. She wanted more of my time, overnights, date nights again, movie nights, etc. From May to September, it had just been Matt and I in a romantic sense. We worked on our relationship and became closer than ever. We were adjusting to being parents again. I felt like I owed her more of my time since I had been spending so much time with him. Realistically, there was no way it could have ever been even. I was like, "My marriage is stable and going great. I am sure everything will be fine if I spend less time with him." I did not ask him how he felt about this. Very bad choice.

I returned to work four months after my little guy's birth, so it was back to crazy hours. I did a detailed schedule several pages back. On average, I wake up at 5:30, and by 7:45, I am out of the house. The time in the morning is spent with our children, getting briefed by the nanny, and talking to Matt in between fixing breakfast for the little duckies and getting dressed. Mornings are chaotic. I have rotating schedules, but no two days are the same. I might get off at 5:30 on Tuesday and 10 on Wednesday. With my unpredictable schedule, being a mum, and having two relationships that had different needs, I was pulled in too many directions. If you total the amount of time Matt spent with me over the course of a week, it probably is a sad 20%. I had to divide my time amongst four people, and for someone who says quality is more important than quantity, the quality and quantity sucked balls.

Let's say I got home at 6:30 and had a date set for 9:30 and it was an overnight evening. Average night would consist of showering, eating dinner with my husband and children, spending time with them, bedtime ritual, and squeezing time in to talk to him, having a glass of wine, getting ready for my date, and packing for my overnight stay with Si. By 9:15, I was out of the house and on the way to wherever we had agreed to meet. Somewhere for drinks, at the cinema, at a show, or wherever. Matt agreed not to text/call unless it was an emergency or anything pertaining to our children, so the nights were usually uninterrupted. She and I and did whatever was planned, and then, we would go back to her place or grab a late night snack. We were regulars at Vingt Quatre. Once, at her place, talking, bonding, cuddling, making love, etc. I would wake up next to her, take a shower with her, get dressed for work, make a Starbucks run, kiss her good-bye, and head home to eat breakfast with Matt and our children. In that hour or so, I had to eat, talk to Matt, sign off on expenses for Nanny J, and spend time with my children. Are you seeing how my time was divided? 40-50% of my day is already allotted to work. That does not leave much time because I have to sleep at some point.

Another huge issue was us conspiring behind his back. In early 2012, we had already decided that we wanted to move. We made it a goal for mid-2013. We needed time to prepare, and I needed time to complete my fellowship. I am now a couple of weeks shy of being done. Thank God. Anyway, we kept Si in the loop. She agreed to move. In late 2012, she expressed hesitation and was kind of straddling the fence. In a selfish hour, I did not want to leave her and have a LDR, so she and I made an additional set of plans WITHOUT talking to Matt. He was completely uninvolved and not part of it. This was wrong. When he found out, he went to the moon, came back, and visited another galaxy. We had purchased a home, started the renovations, secured new jobs, enrolled our child in school, and everything was set, and I asked him to reconsider because Si was not sure she wanted to move. He did not get the full extent of our calculated actions until after their argument in March. He went all the way off. The argument with her and the buried issues regarding parenting caused him to see red. He clicked like a retractable pen.

I made mistakes. It started in 2008 and continued to spiral. I could have gotten control of this. The way I managed poly was the issue. It is not poly itself. It is not that he did not approve of my relationship. It was that he was forced into way too many things pertaining to poly like the lack of listening on my part (communication), forced co-parenting (interdependent model ideal for me/traditional model of two parents for him), sharing holidays (my idea of family vs. his), settling for a fraction of a wife and marriage due to me being gone so much (loss of balance and shitty management), and all those things that built resentment in that five year span. It was not all bad. From 2000-2008, it was the run of the mill poly relationship. We did not adjust well to the changes in schedules, changes in needs, and different wants for each person. We all made mistakes.

So saying that the past 11 years of our marriage were full of miscommunication, selfishness, etc. is incorrect. The last five years? Yes, that is 1000% true. The past five years were more damning than the first eight.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-25-2013 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #436  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:32 PM
FullofLove1052's Avatar
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
I apologize for hijacking your blog FoL, but I just wanted to say, thank you Magdlyn. This just was a huge eye opener for me. For a long time I thought the knowledge of all involved, was the one thing that separated poly from cheating. My own recent issues stem exactly from the fact that knowledge isn't enough. When everyone involved is not approving and supporting, it's not the kind of poly I want to practice.. Will muse some more about this on my own blog I think.
No need to apologise. I see that I needed to clear some things up, so I did a post that should better explain it. In short, the first 8 years were fine. It was the past five and once children were involved that it crashed and went straight to hell. It was never the relationship he had a problem with. It was how I handled the two, my choices, and how much it kept me away. 20% wife? Yes, that is true. That stemmed from piss poor management, bad decisions, and shitty communication in a poly relationship. Everything that happened could have been avoided.
Reply With Quote
  #437  
Old 05-25-2013, 09:37 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post


I appreciate your opinion, and I apologise for how I took what you said..
Apology accepted. And I am glad to hear the first 8 years were fairly balanced, but sorry to hear that with the ramping up of your career at the same time as bringing children in the world coincided, you (plural) lost your way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
I apologize for hijacking your blog FoL, but I just wanted to say, thank you Magdlyn. This just was a huge eye opener for me. For a long time I thought the knowledge of all involved, was the one thing that separated poly from cheating. My own recent issues stem exactly from the fact that knowledge isn't enough. When everyone involved is not approving and supporting, it's not the kind of poly I want to practice.. Will muse some more about this on my own blog I think.
You're welcome! Loving is easy, but knowing your limits and listening to your lover(s) needs and balancing everything is where the work comes in, and the rewards begin. It's hard at first, but does become second nature over time!
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #438  
Old 05-25-2013, 10:23 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

For someone who says they're rejecting "labels", you seem to be knocking yourself out to get this "poly" label to stick. What happened to being "just me"?

Just wondering about that. No agenda required.
Reply With Quote
  #439  
Old 05-26-2013, 03:48 AM
FullofLove1052's Avatar
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
For someone who says they're rejecting "labels", you seem to be knocking yourself out to get this "poly" label to stick. What happened to being "just me"?

Just wondering about that. No agenda required.
There is no label for what I am. I am hovering in between the two. What label fits that? I am a hybrid of the two. My heart is poly, but my actions do not mirror that. For the time being, I am living monogamously. Granted, the argument could be presented that a mono/poly person is still just that even if they are single. However, that argument does not apply to me. This argument implies one knows what they want and still believes in it, despite the circumstances. I am not sure.

Neither label accurately fits. It is impossible to classify myself as one or the other, and I have realised that. I was pushing myself to be one or the other. It seemed wrong to be on both sides. "No label" is better than an ill-fitting one.
Reply With Quote
  #440  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:01 AM
choctaw103's Avatar
choctaw103 choctaw103 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 38
Default

Label yourself human being and be done with it, I don't understand all the questioning on your blog when you freely admit to not knowing it all and trying to improve. Once again, good luck I hope you all come through it on the other side stronger and better for it all. I have personally been rewarded with reading your blog (and Matt's) and learning a lot from both. I appreciate what you are going through, whether self inflicted or not. Keep improving yourself and be happy in who you are and what you are experiencing.

I guess in the end we only get one ride through this thing and really the only thing we can hope for is to love and be loved and feel that we never harmed anyone irreparably. I hope you all find happiness and I hope that your journey continues to teach me and helps me to grow and not make the mistakes someone else had to suffer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anger management, bisexual female, blame, break-ups, breaking up, changing loyalties, children, co-parenting, competition, coupledom, demanding partners, divorce, forgiveness, from poly to mono, healing, making excuses, married and polyamorous, poly co-parenting, poly to mono, primary/secondary, therapy, triad fallout, trust, vee dynamics, vee vs. triad

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:45 AM.