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  #421  
Old 05-24-2013, 06:54 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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It has been a long day that started after an equally long night. It is impossible to hold a conversation with someone who is physically absent and emotionally unavailable. He left last night without mumbling a peep to me. I found out from one of his friends who was nice enough to text and let me know he was there, so I would not worry. Unfortunately hubby dearest saw no reason to tell me he was leaving. I consider that disrespectful. That was the second time I had to find out from someone else where my husband was. He came in at some point after I had went to bed, but he did not sleep in our bedroom again. The third time of someone else informing me of his whereabouts came this morning. He left before we could have breakfast with our children. I heard the movement downstairs, so I know he was with them. I was informed by my daughter that daddy had already left for work when I walked in the kitchen. Imagine my surprise. I hate when he gets like this. He isolates and shuts me completely out of every aspect of his life.

I am bothered by the fact that he would rather confide in a therapist or his friends. People on the outside of our marriage know more about how he is feeling than me, and I am in the marriage. I am not sure how to feel about that. I cannot make him open up to me, trust me, feel comfortable with the idea of trusting me, or be around me.

I met with our counsellor this morning. She said his behaviour is indicative of mistrust and a lowered level of respect. She asked if our trust had been improving, and it has. She explained that he probably views trusting me as a risk, so the minute it increases, he is going to want to counteract it and stop it. I see that. We were getting closer and rebuilding the trust. Now, he is pushing me away, continuing to keep me at a safe distance, and not telling me anything.

I have never said this, but I am hurt. It hurts me every time he opens up a little and proceeds to shut down. He opens up to "safe" point, and then nothing. It hurts me that he would choose confiding in a stranger over confiding in me. It hurts that I am considered a risk and trusting me is apparently a bad idea. When he does open up, it hurts to listen to everything he says. I know it is not supposed to be pleasant, but it is about as comfortable as someone stabbing you and turning the knife in circles. He makes little remarks that come from a place within his own pain and angst, and each one cuts a little deeper than the last. Illustrating how I earned the name 20% wife was a bad one. Everything he said in counselling made me feel like the worst wife. I am amazed that I did not break down on the spot. He communicates in his own way, and it kills me a little more inside.

I know all of this is to be expected in the beginning stages, but it hurts. I am someone who rarely cries, but over the past 12-16 hours, I have done so much. Even if he knew, he is seemingly immune to my pain, so I cannot say it would matter. Everyone keeps saying he needs to talk and communicate his feelings to me. That is like leading a blind person on the edge of a cliff. He does not trust me with his feelings or his heart. I cannot get an "I love you" out of him. He tells me that practical and logical side of things. Everything he tells me is generally devoid of any emotion outside of the negative ones and telling me what he did not like and is not going to do now. I guess I should be happy that he is confiding in someone and getting his frustrations out, but in the meantime, I am left in the dark and feeling emotionally abandoned. Can I tell say just how GREAT that is?

We took our children to the cinema to see Epic 3D, and he never said a word to me. When I did say something to him, he shrugged it off and gave one word responses. "Yeah." "Okay." "Fine."He talked to our daughter and interacted with our son. We are getting ready to go out to dinner with our children now. I guess it will be more silence.

I am going to try to initiate another conversation during or after dinner. I wish I knew what was wrong, but I cannot make him talk to me or force him to let me in to his thoughts. The least he can do is hear me out. I am not expecting him to say anything in response.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-24-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  #422  
Old 05-24-2013, 07:22 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Something crawled up his but and pissed him off and instead of telling you what it was, he's pulling all this passive-aggressive bullshit. The you "should" know what you did wrong and if you don't, he's not about to tell you, instead he will just get even. I completely understand his reluctance to open up completely and not share everything on his mind, but there no excuse for not being rude and disrespectful. I no longer have ANY tolerance for passive-aggressive bullshit, not from my husband and not from myself. It is exponentially destructive and does nothing to resolve whatever the issue is.

I'm glad you talked with you counselor. Unfortunately, the repairing process is littered with all kinds of mind fields, just waiting to explode. Even a minor incident can trigger some serious emotions based on memory and usually they aren't anywhere in line with the incident itself. Take care, you'll both recover.
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  #423  
Old 05-24-2013, 07:53 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
Something crawled up his but and pissed him off and instead of telling you what it was, he's pulling all this passive-aggressive bullshit. The you "should" know what you did wrong and if you don't, he's not about to tell you, instead he will just get even. I completely understand his reluctance to open up completely and not share everything on his mind, but there no excuse for not being rude and disrespectful. I no longer have ANY tolerance for passive-aggressive bullshit, not from my husband and not from myself. It is exponentially destructive and does nothing to resolve whatever the issue is.

I'm glad you talked with you counselor. Unfortunately, the repairing process is littered with all kinds of mind fields, just waiting to explode. Even a minor incident can trigger some serious emotions based on memory and usually they aren't anywhere in line with the incident itself. Take care, you'll both recover.
I have many skills but mind reader has never been one. I am unaware of anything I did. In fact, I know I did nothing. Everything was fine Monday-Wednesday morning. If I had done something, his reaction would have been immediate. He addresses things on the spot and has no problem calling me out. Something else could have been a trigger and set things in motion. I would not know that unless it came from him.

His recent behaviour and the entire way he has been conducting himself is destructive and causing even more damage. Instead of progressing, we are regressing. He was respectful before. Now, he is behaving disrespectfully and just disregarding me.

The repair process is a thorn in my side. Land mines are hidden all over. The trigger could have been someone saying something or seeing someone. Anything could be a trigger. I am not expecting him to tell me everything but telling me nothing and intentionally keeping me at a distance is a bitch.
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  #424  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:09 PM
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He's obviously capable of treating you good, so this drawn-out tantrum is mysterious. Like you said, you're not a mind-reader, and you can't do anything to fix the problem until you know what the problem is.

I hope things get better soon.
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  #425  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:12 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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We finally talked, and the whole conversation was really emotional for both of us. I have only seen my husband cry a handful of times in the 14 years I have known him. Four out of five times were directly related to my pregnancies/births of our children. The first time was during our wedding. He has never been emotional, so when he was visibly emotional at one point during our talk, it touched me in an unexpected way. He trusted me enough to show emotion and be vulnerable.

He asked me if I sincerely cared about how he was feeling? I said, "Yes, of course." He finally opened up to me verbally, but he also presented me with that letter that I asked for weeks back. I have not opened it, yet. I asked him to write out everything that has ever bothered him during our marriage. I wanted him to dig deep.

I found out what has been bothering him. When he revealed the motivation behind all of his sudden behaviour, I remembered why this time of year is a challenge for him. He has always acted a certain way around this time of year, and it is with good reason. "Anniversary reaction" is a simple way to sum it up. He explained what triggered it. When you grieve or when something causes you pain, the brain takes snapshots of everything. The time on a clock/watch, the date on a calendar, the smell of something significant, and each of these things can be a trigger. He encountered three of the triggers on Wednesday, and the actual date is approaching. Add the emotional volatility of our marriage, the anniversary reaction, and it was the makings of a disaster. I only wish I had picked up on it sooner. Now that I know, I can be there for him.

He used to spend the time alone around this time of year. A state of valid reflection and pensiveness. It is not regression. It is kind of like revisiting those feelings and realising how far one has come since then. I asked him if he needed us to leave for the weekend, and he said no because he wanted to spend the weekend with the three most important people to him. He tried to apologise for his behaviour and for the way he lashed out, but I stopped him. He has nothing to apologise for. When I am hurting I lash out, say hurtful things, and want people to feel what I feel, and I do not always want to talk about it. Misery loves company. I also isolate like he did. His best friend knew what was going on, which is why he turned to him Thursday night.

I have been so worried about all that is going on that I was no longer in tune with him and forgot something terribly important. I just held him and provided comfort. He said he felt better after talking to me.

We talked openly about his feelings pertaining to poly. I asked questions, but I listened to everything he was saying. The possibility of it truly bothers him and the idea of it being part of his life again is not something he is sure that he wants to live with again. I asked why he feels so strongly? He informed me that he got burned and has no desire to settle for a fraction of a marriage. He has been there and done that. If it comes down to it, he would rather divorce me and be done with it. He asked if I wanted the truth or just something that I wanted to hear. I guess the truth is not the easiest pill to swallow. He said some things about being married and still feeling lonely was not something he signed up for. He said that he was alone way too much. His words, "Sure I am independent, have my own life, but if I am coming home to an empty house all the time, I might as well be a bachelor." He also said that hobbies and keeping busy are not enough to fill the emptiness when the one person you want at that moment is out living another life and not there when you need them to be. I asked him how he has felt all these years? He was blunt and did not hold back. The more he talked the more I realised functional poly may not be a reality. It is a work in progress. It is not something I need to live and breathe, though. He is not ruling it out. He needs time and my patience. He can have that.

I realise some people say we are incompatible, but I do not see it that way. I cannot even say with certainty poly belongs in my life, so I am not about to leave my marriage on the basis that I may want to be poly and decide in six months that I do not want to live a poly life any longer. I will have lost my husband and my family. I do not do rebounds, so my ex would presumably still be that. I am not afraid to stand alone, but why would I inflict unnecessary heartbreak on myself?

We talked about his anger. He has issues stemming from poly and the way everything was handled. I already knew that, but I am glad he told me what things made him angry and what he continues to struggle with. It was hard to listen to, but there is no way to move past it without addressing it. We talked about the mistrust. As suspected, he is afraid to trust me. He does trust me to a certain degree, but it helped hearing him say the words. The good news is he is actively trying to learn how to trust me again. He wants to believe that I have changed and will never hurt him intentionally ever again. He is struggling with it. I asked if there was anything I could do to help? Continued full disclosure, transparency, and consistency. I can commit to that because it has been helping him.

I opened up to him in a way that I have been avoiding and dreading. It is a distraction to cry while talking to someone, but I was overcome with sadness. I dislike feeling vulnerable. He looked surprised by my candid honesty. I told him about how he has been hurting me and how his actions have made me cry. I told him about how deserted and alone I have been feeling. I told him of how I felt like he had reached the pinnacle of immunity towards my pain. I told him how I wished he would talk to me and let me into his feelings. I bared my soul. He wiped away my tears.

We somehow managed to lighten the mood.

Him: "You were crying because of me? Why?"
Me: "Because I love you enough to shed tears over you, but I am not sure you will ever love me the way you did again."
Him: "Who said I ever stopped?"
Me: "You did not have to say anything. Your actions spoke volumes."
Him: "Sweetheart, I love you more now than ever before. You will always be my classic song. Timeless and beautiful. You were that movie I had never seen, but I knew I would want to see it over and over. I knew my life would never be the same when you walked into it. I am still in love with you. Why do you think I am still here? Despite the mistakes, I am still the luckiest man, and I would marry you again. No complicated way to explain any of this. It is what it is."
Me: "Aww. Shut up. I have never been so sure of something before, but marrying you was the best decision I have ever made. I cannot figure out how you do it, but you make me feel like I am only woman alive for you. You are what I found and wanted but never searched for."
Him: "Is that right? I have some questions for you."
Me: "Uhh...okay. Should I be afraid?"
Him: "Nothing like that. All I want is a yes/no. Are we clear on that?"
Me: "Sir, yes, sir."
Him: "The lady takes instructions well."

He got down on one knee.

Me: *side eye* "What are you doing?"
Him: "I got this. I have something for you, but before I give it to you. You have to answer these questions." (It was 10 questions.)
Me: "Yes, to every question!"

He presented me with my newly resized engagement ring. Those 10 questions were the same 10 he asked me when he proposed the first time. He added "still" and tweaked them to make them fit the current state of our marriage. It was really sweet and heartfelt. I finally got an "I love you" out of it. Not "love you" or "you, too." We did not go straight to bed after our talk. We cuddled, and I fell asleep in his arms.

I am glad we talked last night, and I hope he knows that I am here for him. I feel like we might have had a breakthrough of sorts. Talking things out is much healthier. I feel better, too. I know it was hard for him to open up to me last night, but I am grateful that he did.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-25-2013 at 03:17 AM.
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  #426  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:37 AM
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Mohegan Mohegan is offline
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That was really beautiful and I'm glad you guys were able to really talk. The truth is definitely a bitter pill sometimes, but some of those talks and bitter pills are what saved my marriage.

You're right, we get so caught up in how things should/could/would be and we end up losing the actual connection we were fighting for to begin with. There were definitely times where I thought I could never go through Karma having another relationship. That I never wanted to deal with NRE and empty houses and being lonely ever again. I can't speak for your husband or your relationship, but I did eventually come around to seeing it as something Karma needed and that in loving him, I needed to be able to allow him that freedom. I still have points of wondering if I really want to live this life. But being able to have those honest heart to hearts helps me move forward.

You're comment about him getting emotional really touched me. When Karma and I had our big talk three years ago, seeing the tears in his eyes is what convinced me to give our marriage another go. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen him cry in our eleven years together and knowing that our marriage was that important to him was a real awakening.

I really hope things continue to move forward and you both continue to learn and grow together. It sounds like you're doing a really good job of it so far.
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  #427  
Old 05-25-2013, 04:20 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
"... You are what I found and wanted but never searched for."
This. This! THIS!!!

Wow, you captured so much of how I feel in this statement. It happened once, and caught me completely off guard...19 years later, unexpectedly, it happened again. Thank you for sharing such an intimate moment with us.
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  #428  
Old 05-25-2013, 05:44 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good morning.

I love being a mum. My son has 50% of my genes and 100% of my personality. He is up and wants to play. I was hoping he would just lay between us quietly. Mini me does not like when people sleep around him. He was touching Matt's face, and he slapped him. It was hard enough to wake him up. I had to laugh. That is my petty match. Our morning is off to a funny start now.

I have to commend Matt for even trying to find a way to live with poly after all that has happened. It is clearly a struggle. For him to even be willing to consider alternatives means a great deal to me. We agreed on checkpoints. No mention of it unless he brings it up. I am more than okay with that. My ex is still not a warm and fuzzy topic, so I am going to be mindful of what I say around him. I know what makes him uncomfortable now. I am not sure he will ever get to a point where poly is even tolerable. I used the analogy of him supporting something like PETA but me still wearing my coveted exotic skins. (I just bought a pair of lizard skin courts.) The same goes for his mono beliefs and me being poly. Our fundamental beliefs may be different, but they are not enough to drive us apart. He is not forcing his beliefs on me, and I am not forcing him to accept another relationship or something that I know would hurt him. We have an understanding. I am perfectly content with leaving this alone and stepping away from it until further notice. I am still going to discuss my feelings towards poly on here and within counselling. Just limiting what I say to him directly about a touchy issue out of respect.

We are spending the weekend in Bournemouth. It is nice this time of year. Our neighbours are having their civil ceremony tonight. I am so happy for them.

I am off to get the hubby and duckies up and out of here within the next hour.
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  #429  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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Wonderful, all of it. Good for both of you. I will say the only people who are truly incompatible are those who are unwilling to try and compromise.
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  #430  
Old 05-25-2013, 01:43 PM
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I appreciate you baring your soul here to this particular polyamorous community.

But.

I must protest at your constant bashing of "poly." You, Si and Matt were NOT poly. At best, you had a mistress which Matt extremely grudgingly tolerated. He did not approve, he did not take joy in your relationship with Si. He seems to have resented almost every moment you shared with her, and abhorred almost every moment she spent in his presence or around the children.

So, I wish you'd stop characterizing the lovestyle of your past 12 years as polyamory. The definition of polyamory is loving more than one, with the knowledge and approval of all participants. Obviously Matt did NOT approve. Obviously you did whatever the hell you wanted without giving a crap about his needs or desires. You ignored him, didn't talk to him, conspired with Si without including him, et cetera, et cetera.

I wish you and Matt would understand you (plural) did NOT practice polyamory. And I just have to put that here, for newbie readers who may be on the fence and horrified at what you call polyamory.

When you wonder to yourself if you should ever practice poly "again," it's a false concept. You never did in the first place.
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