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  #1701  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
I think I'm missing the cheating part. If you've already written about it somewhere in this tome, I apologize in advance for asking how their relationship got started? Was it am emotional or physical affair that you weren't aware of?
its been a year of development into Mono deciding to try out poly. Go back to last June (2012) and read from there. First it was admitting love development with his friend swearing he could only ever love her and me. Then he went about it thinking that cheating would be the answer. An open relationship where we would have a don't ask don't tell policy. I didn't agree to that so he had a relationship of some kind anyway with a woman from my sons school. That didn't pan out and I heard more of the details of it when he met T. Its been a few weeks of my full realization of his story in terms secrets and deception, his subsequent decision to be honest and try poly, and to try it with T. I'm catching up with a year long story that I wasn't fully made part of or aware of and grappling with his possible new relationship. I'm getting there, but I believe I have a right to take the time I need and be grieving as I am. I have lost what I know. He has changed long ago but for me its really new. Or at least his full disclosure of it is.
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  #1702  
Old 05-21-2013, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
its been a year of development into Mono deciding to try out poly. Go back to last June (2012) and read from there. First it was admitting love development with his friend swearing he could only ever love her and me. Then he went about it thinking that cheating would be the answer. An open relationship where we would have a don't ask don't tell policy. I didn't agree to that so he had a relationship of some kind anyway with a woman from my sons school. That didn't pan out and I heard more of the details of it when he met T. Its been a few weeks of my full realization of his story in terms secrets and deception, his subsequent decision to be honest and try poly, and to try it with T. I'm catching up with a year long story that I wasn't fully made part of or aware of and grappling with his possible new relationship. I'm getting there, but I believe I have a right to take the time I need and be grieving as I am. I have lost what I know. He has changed long ago but for me its really new. Or at least his full disclosure of it is.
I had to pause a few times before submitting the below. But, having seen this type of thing play out so very often in these forums, I'd like to give you the courtesy of honesty without sugar coating (which I think you occasionally get from others too concerned about offending you, or who desire to be agreeable).

So I read a good deal of it (skimmed really) and while I can see many spots where Mono avoids talking to you, I don't actually see a 'cheating' partner. At least as far as I can tell without reading a complete volume. I see lots of repeating lines of text about you being negatively emotional about him, frankly. Which is all well and good, but what he actually did (not what he thought about or didn't want to discuss, or felt but didn't convey) to earn such a response I don't understand. Mono did not strike me as a cheater, but more so someone who didn't articulate inner change very well. Cautiously silent. Avoids hurting others, but not a malevolent cheating prick like a lot of other fools who come and go on this site.

I get that he talked to someone, developed feelings, and didn't want to talk to you about it. That's out in the open. You know what you need to know. You're not in control of him, or her. And if they go for it and fall in love, you're likely not going to play well with her being part of it. And she probably knows that, if she's intelligent (I assume she's not stupid). Too late to stop it now though. You know that, right?

Anyway, it seems like aside from this he's done a pretty good job being there for you, your family, and trying to hold on while you live your life full steam with him, and without him. Being one of a quartet (or quintet) of relationship options did not make him flee (which is pretty cool, actually). What's going on now, if you're remotely conveying a continuing streak of distrust and paranoia, coupled with his avoidances and bunker mentality with problems (and new person to turn to if he wants to), if you're continually showing even a third of the feelings you write about in here....well the outlook is not good, RP. Both of you are making the future easily predictable.
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  #1703  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:06 AM
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Monkeystyle shares a lot of wisdom here, RP.

As some others of us have said to you before, I think your biggest issue regarding all these developments with Mono's process in branching out to poly is the loss of control you thought you had. You were at the center, the desired one with all these relationships, basically the woman at the helm. You were even Mono's domme for a time (don't know if that has changed - you haven't written about that for a long while). But now everyone in your sphere is changing, wants more, has developed attractions for other people (even Derby and PolyNerdist!), and what has become evident is that you're simply not in charge anymore. Even the man who claimed he could never be anything but monogamous (which you always said you could not understand) is embracing poly, and essentially, as I have written before, your long-held dream of a poly family/tribe is actually coming true. Frankly, I would think you would be excited and definitely more supportive of him wanting to be poly.

Of course, Mono could have been more vocal about what was going on with him, but to call him a cheater seems rather harsh when he was simply developing a friendship with a woman while you were developing a romance with another man. He tried to control his feelings for that woman but could not. How many times have we all said, feelings develop on their own. But you are making Mono out to be some terrible villain who has betrayed you, though he has stayed by your side and tried to get you to see that he is his own man just as much as you are your own woman.

Yes, it is perfectly understandable that you are grieving the way things were. But I think your grief is very closely tied in to your self-esteem, and that it is your sense of self-esteem that is what you need to work on. Because it seems (from the outside, anyway) that yours was very connected to being the one that everyone focuses their love and attention on. And craving that kind of attention speaks to an underlying belief that one does not really deserve it. Now you are sharing that spot, and your loves have other people they love and are dividing their focus - it's not all about you anymore, but it isn't not about you either! So, how can you still be confident in your self-worth as you share your position with others, and not let it shake you so much that the people who were so devoted to you are also devoting themselves to others? That is what I see will be crucial for you to confront and resolve within yourself. But you might lose everything if you continue on the track you've been.

Cleo wrote something in her blog regarding some changes with one of her relationships (he is now seeing an additional partner, too), and I think it is very relevant for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
It is my responsibility to find the new balance FOR ME. The fact that C is dealing with it differently does not really matter, I have to take care of me and of how I deal with it. The change is happening no matter what and there is nothing I can do about it. It is my false sense of power that is causing the most anxiety. But yeah, accepting the change is hard.. especially if you are not the one who made the choice to change things.
There is such a thing as over-processing what we are going through, to the point where we stay stuck and start blaming others, and don't make any progress. At some point, what it takes is just a deliberate "no" to self-pity, a letting go of the need to be in control, and a concerted effort to make a shift in one's perspective.

I'm rooting for you!
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-21-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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  #1704  
Old 05-21-2013, 04:55 PM
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Posting just to say, I'm on the same page as monkey and indie, here.

It seems like a whole lot of exaggerated actions, for things that seems minor, or aren't as they even seem to be in your head.

Our minds are good to us like that though. Things are always more difficult to see from the centre of it all. Driving us crazy, with all the details we manage to miss.

Not to say that we could know Mono better than you do. Just that the situation is happen directly with you, that your judgement seems to have become clouded, and the emotional part of your mind has taken over from all logical functioning.
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  #1705  
Old 05-21-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
There is such a thing as over-processing what we are going through, to the point where we stay stuck and start blaming others, and don't make any progress. At some point, what it takes is just a deliberate "no" to self-pity, a letting go of the need to be in control, and a concerted effort to make a shift in one's perspective.

I'm rooting for you!
I think this was a very important tid-bit.
As someone who had an emotional affair over many years, I do understand how destructive that can be to trust-it nearly destroyed my marriage.

HOWEVER-
it is also true,
that with your help and Mono's-
Maca and I realized that we also needed to stop trying to process and understand everything.
He will never understand exactly why I did what I did (neither do I).
I will never understand exactly how hurtful it was for him or what I could have done different in those moments (I could make different choices now-but I didn't have the info then that I have now).
So continuing to try to hash it out in our heads (and together) was only creating more angst.

What actually started changing things-was when we both said "fuck it".
Seriously.

We both got to a point where we said "it is what it is and we can't change that-so what can we do to make it the best it is as it is now?"

That meant just dropping the pile of shit that we had created in the compost pile and moving on. It's a technical and very useful detail-we didn't take it to the dump. We dropped it in the compost pile. It doesn't immediately go away-but who stands around watching a compost pile compost?
You go out every few days and stir it, then leave it to do its work. Eventually with TIME it alters the waste you put in, into something that is no longer waste.

I empathize SO MUCH with your hurt RP. Maca repeating my behavior and choosing to be sneaky with the 24 year old was very destructive.

But here's the crux-if I sit with that pain for too long, it's destructiveness increases exponentially.
If on the other hand I put it in the compost pile and leave it; then it's power diminishes. Not immediately, not quickly, but it does diminish.


You enjoyed a peaceful rest with the family for the boys bday-that's awesome!
So, for your own self, make a mental note each day (and maybe write it to) of what went right.


You mentioned, the letters along your run-they were deeply meaningful to you. You are afraid to take that route-for fear that they won't be there.

And that thought KEEPS REPEATING IN MY HEAD. For weeks now. I go to bed and contemplate that.
Because, it seems such an easy fix. I ALMOST messaged Mono and told him he should just go put a note there and be sure there is one there for whenever you can get the nerve up to go look. But-I did not.
Because this is your and his relationship.

BUT-you can do this RP. Look at this man you love in the eyes.
Tell him, with honesty and sincerity, that you love him, that you are struggling, but you are struggling to get through that pain. That one of the most meaningful things he did for you was leave those notes along your route. Because, they reassure you, they comfort you, they give you a physical reminder of his love even when he is absent AND they simultaneously promote you doing something healthy and productive for yourself.
Then ask him-will you start leaving notes there for me again this week, if I commit to resuming my runs/walks along that route?

That will give you a time/space to cry, to laugh, to think or to not think. It will help you to stay physically active, which helps with depression and anxiety (and sleep). It will help you to do something on your own instead of moping about being on your own. It will also help give you two something to bond over again-something small and simple that you are both already accustomed to-that isn't going to take away from his ability or yours to grow and change and improve through this trauma.

Schedule a time to take LB and the other kiddos-and go to the park with Derby. She's a good walker/talker.

You can do this RP. I have full faith in you.
No idea what the outcome with look like.
But-you can find your happy, secure, confident self.
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  #1706  
Old 05-21-2013, 06:18 PM
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When i was 20, someone "did" my astrology chart, and even though it was "just for fun" (i don't "believe" astrology any more than i "believe" the catholic church or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But is it significant that i capitalized one and not the other? You decide.), it had some interesting things to say that might be useful to you, and others. One of them was:

Quote:
You might do well to not feel that you must have an absolutely secure grip on everything that is happening to and around you at every moment, nor feel that you must be able to put it all together in order to provide some new insight for all of us.
^^ This was in regards to Sagittarius sun with Pisces moon, if that means anything to anyone.

It also says:

Quote:

Partnership is very fortunate for you and your love life has been a path of least resistance because you are very creative and express yourself well. Your partners tend to be very intense, and your style of relating to them is also very intense. However, there tends to be a sense of mystery and idealization surrounding "the other" blah blah etc. there's more but i forgot it.

Anyway these two things in particular i thought of when i read these last few posts. And i have thought of them at various times over the years. I know we don't have the same birthday, but aren't they like a year and a day apart, or something? Some of this could apply to you, or ANYONE, i think these are not uncommon personality traits.
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  #1707  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
I had to pause a few times before submitting the below. But, having seen this type of thing play out so very often in these forums, I'd like to give you the courtesy of honesty without sugar coating (which I think you occasionally get from others too concerned about offending you, or who desire to be agreeable).
No worries. I can take it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
So I read a good deal of it (skimmed really) and while I can see many spots where Mono avoids talking to you, I don't actually see a 'cheating' partner. At least as far as I can tell without reading a complete volume. I see lots of repeating lines of text about you being negatively emotional about him, frankly. Which is all well and good, but what he actually did (not what he thought about or didn't want to discuss, or felt but didn't convey) to earn such a response I don't understand. Mono did not strike me as a cheater, but more so someone who didn't articulate inner change very well. Cautiously silent. Avoids hurting others, but not a malevolent cheating prick like a lot of other fools who come and go on this site.
Well, he used to be. he had an affair on his wife for two years before he got booted out. You are right though. He is trying to set a different course and I can give him full credit for that. I have no idea what happened with the women/woman he saw. He said nothing, but there is stuff that doesn't add up. No matter. Its water under the bridge and he is working hard to find a new path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
I get that he talked to someone, developed feelings, and didn't want to talk to you about it. That's out in the open. You know what you need to know. You're not in control of him, or her. And if they go for it and fall in love, you're likely not going to play well with her being part of it. And she probably knows that, if she's intelligent (I assume she's not stupid). Too late to stop it now though. You know that, right?
Too late to stop it. Yes. If its not her is would be someone else and really, I know her and she knows me. At least a bit through the groups I run and through mutual friends. Hell, we went to Vegas together for our friends wedding! At least she is not a stranger and I can "get" her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
Anyway, it seems like aside from this he's done a pretty good job being there for you, your family, and trying to hold on while you live your life full steam with him, and without him. Being one of a quartet (or quintet) of relationship options did not make him flee (which is pretty cool, actually). What's going on now, if you're remotely conveying a continuing streak of distrust and paranoia, coupled with his avoidances and bunker mentality with problems (and new person to turn to if he wants to), if you're continually showing even a third of the feelings you write about in here....well the outlook is not good, RP. Both of you are making the future easily predictable.
Please remember that this is my rant place. I do have moments where I get my feet on the ground and make some headway into a better frame of mind. Please remember too that most of what you have read has been from two weeks after I found out about a whole bunch of stuff and its fresh. I was in the thick of paranoia, fear, threat, abandonment issues up the yin yang and had every right to be. I am working hard here. Harder than I perhaps come off. Really, if I am not here ranting then I likely am doing better than I seem to when I am ranting here.
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  #1708  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:55 PM
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I will reply to others later. Thanks for your words. I have had a lot to think about. I really appreciate the input and rational wisdom you all have. *hugs*
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  #1709  
Old 05-23-2013, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Monkeystyle shares a lot of wisdom here, RP.

As some others of us have said to you before, I think your biggest issue regarding all these developments with Mono's process in branching out to poly is the loss of control you thought you had. You were at the center, the desired one with all these relationships, basically the woman at the helm. You were even Mono's domme for a time (don't know if that has changed - you haven't written about that for a long while). But now everyone in your sphere is changing, wants more, has developed attractions for other people (even Derby and PolyNerdist!), and what has become evident is that you're simply not in charge anymore. Even the man who claimed he could never be anything but monogamous (which you always said you could not understand) is embracing poly, and essentially, as I have written before, your long-held dream of a poly family/tribe is actually coming true. Frankly, I would think you would be excited and definitely more supportive of him wanting to be poly.

Of course, Mono could have been more vocal about what was goin g on with him, but to call him a cheater seems rather harsh when he was simply developing a friendship with a woman while you were developing a romance with another man. He tried to control his feelings for that woman but could not. How many times have we all said, feelings develop on their own. But you are making Mono out to be some terrible villain who has betrayed you, though he has stayed by your side and tried to get you to see that he is his own man just as much as you are your own woman.

Yes, it is perfectly understandable that you are grieving the way things were. But I think your grief is very closely tied in to your self-esteem, and that it is your sense of self-esteem that is what you need to work on. Because it seems (from the outside, anyway) that yours was very connected to being the one that everyone focuses their love and attention on. And craving that kind of attention speaks to an underlying belief that one does not really deserve it. Now you are sharing that spot, and your loves have other people they love and are dividing their focus - it's not all about you anymore, but it isn't not about you either! So, how can you still be confident in your self-worth as you share your position with others, and not let it shake you so much that the people who were so devoted to you are also devoting themselves to others? That is what I see will be crucial for you to confront and resolve within yourself. But you might lose everything if you continue on the track you've been.

Cleo wrote something in her blog regarding some changes with one of her relationships (he is now seeing an additional partner, too), and I think it is very relevant for you:



There is such a thing as over-processing what we are going through, to the point where we stay stuck and start blaming others, and don't make any progress. At some point, what it takes is just a deliberate "no" to self-pity, a letting go of the need to be in control, and a concerted effort to make a shift in one's perspective.

I'm rooting for you!
Thanks for the quote by Cleo. Its very moving and contains moments I have had.

Its true. I have no control. Its not like I don't know that. This is bigger than Mono and what he is doing. I seem to be going through a huge shift in who I believe myself to be. I have lost control on all levels. Of myself. I feel as if I have fallen from a plane and don't know where I will land. Its been four years of my reality. Yes. The change has made me feel I've lost control as in the carpet ripped out from under me but not controlling.

I know what you are saying about Mono. I agree. Its just been to early to see it all fully and in time I will. I suspect. Right now, I grieve, I'm get through that and move forward with a new reality. Its coming.

I have been making my mantra be to let go and find my own feet. My feelings of worthiness and belonging have been shattered but I am finding them inside myself. My concern is that I am drifting away from what I know and love due to the change in me and everyone. I guess its a matter of seeing where we end up and hanging on to the moments I feel connected to the family we've created.
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  #1710  
Old 05-23-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Somegeezer View Post
Posting just to say, I'm on the same page as monkey and indie, here.

It seems like a whole lot of exaggerated actions, for things that seems minor, or aren't as they even seem to be in your head.

Our minds are good to us like that though. Things are always more difficult to see from the centre of it all. Driving us crazy, with all the details we manage to miss.

Not to say that we could know Mono better than you do. Just that the situation is happen directly with you, that your judgement seems to have become clouded, and the emotional part of your mind has taken over from all logical functioning.
yip. All of it. The cloud will and is lifting.

I still don't have the sleep thing down. I have noticed that a large part of how I feel and cope revolves around sleep. Its made me feel hopeful and less serious about my opinion and thought process.
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