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  #31  
Old 01-20-2010, 06:39 PM
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rolypoly rolypoly is offline
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I took some time to process this thread and then wrote a VERY long reply last night. I had a thought that I should save it in a text editor in case, and literally, the moment I clicked on the text to copy it, Firefox crashed. *sigh*

I'm not retyping all that. But, in short, I basically said:

- My 100% isn't necessarily your 100%. So, part of communicating is being specific about what giving/receiving looks like to you.

- Some have nothing to give, let alone 100%. I talked about my ex and the "episode" he went into. He wasn't able to get out of bed, let alone give 100%.

- It is sometimes difficult to get past family filters. If you were taught that giving 100% meant pretending you don't have needs, or buying presents, or? then that's what you will do in your relationships. It takes effort to learn new ways.
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  #32  
Old 01-20-2010, 07:10 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Mono has a friend that is experiencing the demise of his marriage because he doesn't want to tell his wife that if they don't work out their sexual relationship he will be driven to go out and find someone else to have sex with. He doesn't want to hurt her by telling her that.

My point to him is that he has a choice of how the shit will hit the fan....
RP,

Although I'm not sure how applicable the discussion would be to this particular forum, It's one I would LOVE to see had somewhere !
This 'situation' is so common as to be almost standard and I personally have never seen what I felt was a good, honest discussion of how to proceed in these cases with sound logic and truly open minds.
If anyone happens to know of any really popular (high traffic) forum where this might get discussed it would be worth you (or someone) trying to stir that pot

Good luck

GS
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  #33  
Old 01-20-2010, 07:44 PM
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thanks GS, good point. I brought it up because it is an example of where it all starts to go at the seams in relationships where cheating could happen. I know they don't have a poly relationship, but so many people come here having gone through the end result of this kind of trauma in their lives. These people look to poly in terms of getting some relief from their torment sometimes or because they actually are poly. It's almost as if some people look for a poly band-aid to help them heal. poly polysporin!!!! hahahaha!!!! (maybe this joke is for north americers?) new for the definitions?

anyway, back on track here.... what I'm saying is, this is the opportunity I was speaking about in terms of what advice to give people BEFORE they fuck up. Do you see what I mean? This was the whole reason I wrote this thread so that I know how to move forward from that desperate feeling I get, tight in the chest, kind of "oh no" feeling. I feel strongly when people are hurting and to watch cheating about to possibly happen and have nothing to say other than, "you shouldn't do that" isn't good enough for me. At least if I don't at least explore alternatives...

what do people think of the poly band-aid thing too...? Am I crazy or do I see that some use a poly lifestyle to avoid leaving their partners for good? just a thought.
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  #34  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
RP,

Although I'm not sure how applicable the discussion would be to this particular forum,
GS
Part of this forum is about looking at relationships and the issues that arise in them with the hopes to learn and improve ourselves. Just because this issue happened to arise in a monogamous relationship does not mean it can not serve as a learning point in the poly world. If we are turning a blind eye to lessons in other relatinship styles than I could argue that we have nothing to learn from swingers or people who are curious but not yet sure if they are poly. To not draw on the exeriences of the monogamous world is to decide to not draw on the vast majority of people. That's a pretty limited pool to draw on and does nothing to validate the resultant ideas and solutions to dilemas that span all relationship styles.
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  #35  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Part of this forum is about looking at relationships and the issues that arise in them with the hopes to learn and improve ourselves. Just because this issue happened to arise in a monogamous relationship does not mean it can not serve as a learning point in the poly world. If we are turning a blind eye to lessons in other relatinship styles than I could argue that we have nothing to learn from swingers or people who are curious but not yet sure if they are poly. To not draw on the exeriences of the mongamous world is to decide to not draw on the vast majority of people. That's a pretty limited pool to draw on and does nothing to validate the resultant ideas and solutions to dilemas that span all relationship styles.
Like I've always said:

Poly relationships are just like monogamous relationships, except that there are more people involved.
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  #36  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
Like I've always said:

Poly relationships are just like monogamous relationships, except that there are more people involved.
Amen, Ceoli
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  #37  
Old 01-21-2010, 03:06 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
These people look to poly in terms of getting some relief from their torment sometimes or because they actually are poly. It's almost as if some people look for a poly band-aid to help them heal. poly polysporin!!!! hahahaha!!!! (maybe this joke is for north americers?) new for the definitions?
..............
I feel strongly when people are hurting and to watch cheating about to possibly happen and have nothing to say other than, "you shouldn't do that" isn't good enough for me. At least if I don't at least explore alternatives...

what do people think of the poly band-aid thing too...? Am I crazy or do I see that some use a poly lifestyle to avoid leaving their partners for good? just a thought.
Hi RP,

Yea, sometimes it sucks being just a kind, compassionate person. Just want to go off & 'fix' the world - especially where some of the fixes might appear relatively simple.
For myself, I'm a bit sensitive to people adopting new life/love styles for the WRONG reasons. When that happens they often bring their poison with them which ends up affecting a much larger group.
However, in general, I DO feel that shifting to a 'poly' (starting to hate that term) life/love style can obviously be a viable solution to some of the weak spots in relationships. But I DON'T feel that doing it for sex alone brings the right components.
It's kind of hard for me to generalize on things like this because I think each situation has to be evaluated individually. I don't know this person or his wife or the particulars of what their "relationship" really entails.
But what you outline is a prime example of where I've seen the B/W approach to cheating blur to gray. If for example I was a 'poly' woman and knew this person well and cared for them and maybe even their family, I might really struggle with not offering them a partial "solution". I'm liberated sexually so there'd be no conflict from that perspective alone. And it's within my capability to do this. Conditions are met - attraction, safety etc. Having this capability - and yet withholding it - brings up an interesting ethical dilemma.
My B/W rule tells me that 'cheating' is wrong (?), dangerous, harmful etc but my logical and compassionate side is beating me up over withholding aid in a circumstance when I'm more than capable of providing it.

So I think you framed this paradox well and at least for myself I have never seen any convincing evidence that would allow me to form any "rule" that could ALWAYS be adhered to that would guarantee a positive outcome. Those type of rules are almost a self definition of dogma and history illustrates that the net/net long term outcome of dogmatic thinking is disastrous at best.

GS

PS: It's also important to note that there ARE viable solutions to the "sex" problem alone that don't involve polyamory but in our religiously crippled society, nobody is willing or brave enough to really talk about those options/solutions

Last edited by GroundedSpirit; 01-21-2010 at 03:10 PM.
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2010, 10:15 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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Bear with me ya'll because I'm doing this from my phone yet again. So I can't quote anyone for my response. I completely agree to with the idea that all people involved need to be in the relationship 100%. I think that for me 100% means give and take with understanding of everyone elses needs as well. It has to be a team effort. There will always be a time where something slips between the cracks and it goes unnoticed until someone's needs aren't being met in the way that they need them to be met. I think it takes a lot of communication and trust to deal with the kinks that arise in a relationship.

The person with the need that isn't getting met needs to be able to communicate that to the other and they also need to be able to trust the other partner. That they will be open to hearing it because when someone has a need they become very vunerable and it can be scary to lay that weakness out on the table for others to see. It's also equally important for the person who isn't meeting the need to be able to trust that their partner isn't making a personal attack, by stating that a need isn't getting met that way they are able to be delicate and not take a defensive stance in the conversation. That person also needs to be able to communicate why they haven't been able to meet the need of the other person so that there is a clear understanding of where the disconnect happened.

Some might be surprised at the domino effect that they will uncover. For example, someone's sexual needs aren't being met. Maybe the person who doesn't want to have sex anymore will look deeper and find that they lost their sexual desire because their partner hasn't been helping around the house for a while and its making her tired and without realizing it she internalized that her husband doesn't care for her as much as he used to because he isn't helping lessen her load so that she isn't as tired. This would absolutely disconnect her from hims and their relationship in a lot of areas. She would find it harder to open up to him because shes feels as though he doesn't genuinely care and she has lost her safety net in speaking with him. Once she feels unsafe to open up emotionally then the sexual flood gates would definitely close. So once they have discovered this they first need to discuss why he stopped helping around the house and what it really means (not what she assumed it meant) and they need to heal the gap that was created and fulfill her need of knowing he cares and putting that safety net back up before he will be able to have his sexual needs met. AND he has to be willing to see the BIGGER PICTURE of balancing out the relationship once again before his needs. 100% is definitely a balancing act. While we might not always be 100% (which is why break downs happen) It is absolutely a MUST that all parties be 100% in resolving any and all problems or breakdowns.

As for the cheating, LR what you said about how it affected you.... You told my story. That is exactly how it was. Damaging for all involved including the cheater (me)

But back to the 100%, my friend (i have no idea what I'm supposed to call him yet. I refuse to call him my bf until he asks me to ; ) off topic I know) my friend and I had a convo today via text about the connection we share and I think it coincides quite well. So with his permission I am copying and pasting our dialogue from the convo (please don't vomit over the mushy parts). Its basically us talking about if what if there was something threatening our connection.


Him:With you I am effortless. Effortless in a way I've never known. Which scares me in a different way.

Me : Why does it scare you?

Him : Its why I'm working more for my self improvement. More than normal. I'm afraid ill get lazy with it being so effortless to understand you, to know what to say, How to react, when to listen to this and save that for later to discuss. Its just so easy I have fallen or I should say you have fallen victim to me laziness already. Though I tried to act before our connection was gone.

Me : That's part of the ebb and flow of any relationship. Not everyone is 100% all of the time, but what's more important is both of us being honest with ourselves and each other about our needs and also (extremely important) keeping an open heart and mind when things that we may be doing or not doing are brought to light by the other. I think the real connection comes from knowing that your partner wants the same thing that you do a healthy relationship. Knowing this makes it so much easier to hear about something we are lacking and it makes a world of a difference in the effort that we put into correcting any problems when we know that the other is only saying it to improve the connection not to point out a weakness of ours just for the sake of placing blame.

Him : X) it is normally hard for me to even hear criticism. But your words blunt and harsh as they have been slide against me and just what I needed to know sticks. You are perfect to me and I hope this gives you a good view as to why I think this.

Me :
Should I work on my bluntness and harshness lovey?

Him: Bubby your words, their inflections, your emphasis, your demeanor. Its all perfect to me. I honestly don't believe you could have gotten the me you have without it.

Me : Okay good, because its who I am. I don't think its something I could change.

Me : I think its hard for anyone to hear criticism, but when you can hear the person who's speaking of a lack of needs it shouldn't be viewed as criticism. When I say things for example, I feel neglected. It doesn't mean, you're getting lazy and you suck at life. It simply means, I need you so very much at this moment. I really don't think there would ever be a time where you would turn a blind eye to such a need and neither would I if it was reversed.

Me : Voicing needs should never be viewed as criticism. Its not a personal attack. Its more about the person asking for what they need from who they need it from. I wouldn't waste my time pointing out flaws of yours (except for our playful sassy banter and I don't see you as having "flaws") unless I felt it was taking away my connection with you and I hope that you will always trust me as I trust you with voicing my needs without a fear of rejection or backlash.

Him: Never more would I hold back my thoughts or feelings unless I'm not sure where to begin and it takes to long to find a beginning then you'll get the uncut Me.

Him: And to me bubby you are oh so flawless. You just argue it every time say it. So I playfully toss in, flaws and all X)

Me : : ) what do you mean by the uncut you?

Him: Means after I can't figure where to begin on (say a spiral) an issue to bring to you to help me work it out. Then you're just gonna have to sort through the jumble of thoughts with me.

Me : Lol well lovey. I see you as such a pillar of strength that I hope you will bear with me because seeing you flustered and jumbled will surely throw me for a loop. So if you will rub my back or give me some kind of comfort I will surely be able to hear your words over any swirling fears that may be going on in my head. We will help each other get to the bottom of whatever it is that's going on.

Him: X) yet again. ((smitten)) you never stop entangling me in with you in such a lovely way

Last edited by Ilove2men; 01-28-2010 at 02:30 AM. Reason: making it more readable.
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  #39  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:09 AM
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I'm sorry, I'm a newbie to this forum and don't feel qualified to weigh in really but I've been thinking so much about the situation in monogamous relationships where one person wants more sex than the other, and it seems so common for parents of young children. Most of my friends fall into this camp, as do I (I mean parents with young children, not sexless relationships). Married and monogamous, I have a 5year old girl and an almost 2 year old. Its definitely not true that nobody gets sex though right after having children, my sex drive never wavered even a little thankfully.
I'm stunned that anyone would consider having an affair or walking away from their marriage rather than just be open and honest with their partner about their needs. A couple of years ago I heard from my husband that he was struggling with finding me physically attractive and would like me to lose weight and dress nicer. That was a really hard thing for him to tell me, but I heard him and I listened and I'm so much happier for it, and we're so much closer together. I can't help but imagine if he had not gathered up the courage to tell me this and just left instead, or had an affair that we wouldn't have the wonderful trusting relationship that we finally have.

We've been discussing polyamory together more as another thing that we could share, because of a friend who suddenly appeared in our lives in a different way to what we were used to. I don't know if we will ever go ahead with any of it but reading and learning all about it is where I am at right now, but it seems that having an already healthy relationship beforehand might be a good prerequisite.

Last edited by Confused; 02-16-2010 at 06:17 PM.
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