Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:23 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,490
Default

Check out "love without limits" by deborah anapol. I found some things in there helpful.
(i hope that you gleaned from this last episode that you and she discussing needs is BETTER than using him as a go-between)
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:51 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,483
Default

Then I am glad to be wrong and hope things work out for you in your "V" with improved communication expectations to minimize triangulation.

But could still please consider doing something about that language barrier thing and the job thing so you are financially independent and have some finances only in your name.

Ask for help to remove these hindrances that keep you dependent.

Rings, and commitment ceremonies and celebrations can be lovely, and spiritually fulfulling, but legal standing is another thing and I am ignorant of German law. If he gets run over by a bus by acccident... then what provisions are in place for his poly family?

You are all responsible for all your own emergency preparedness. Could make that plan too while you are reorganizing within the V.

Namaste,
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-14-2013 at 06:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:03 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,784
Default

Perhaps you can find work at the American Embassy or a school for US expats. There is usually a community of American expats in almost every country, and they sometimes even have their own websites, newspapers, blogs, and meetings where English is spoken. I just did a little googling around and found this: http://www.internations.org/germany-expats/americans. Network with others who have relocated there!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-14-2013, 10:28 PM
Dagferi's Avatar
Dagferi Dagferi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,167
Default

Bigamy is illegal in all European Union countries.

My boss is German so I asked him. I find it hard that you are having a hard time being immersed in the language after 3 years. I have been working for my boss since February as his personal assistant. Even though he lives in the US his band mates are German and they all do not speak English.

I do not speak the language well yet. I understand more and more everyday from having to work. 56% of Germans can speak english and with smart phones you can have your phone speak for you. For conversations I speak into my cell phone and it will repeat what I said in German and they will do the same. The guys drag me around and explain things in German and I do the same in English.
__________________
40 yo straight female
Married in the eyes of the government to Butch since 2001...
Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 60/40 split of time. Only due to Murf's and Butch's crappy work schedules.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:08 AM
El186 El186 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
Default

Yes, I am upset as to why I am having trouble with the language as well. I am fluent in Spanish and thought that it would not be that difficult to learn it, but for some reason, things are just NOT sticking. Words that I will learn one day are GONE the next. It is like I have to start over everyday. But then again, I also am having trouble with english words. Everday words that I KNOW and use frequently are just gone...and I have to think and think before I can remember them. Sometimes I can...sometimes I can't . Most of the time I can tell you the first letter of the word and what it means...and then together we can figure it out. As I have said before, I have SEVERAL illnesses and I take a lot of medication for them. I have seen my regular doc, a pain management doc, a neurologist, a urologist an endocrinologist, a nutritionist, a rheumatologist and a dermatologist. In the past I have seen gastroenterologists and internists as well. I have had physical therapy, accupuncture, chiropractic and many different types of shots into my spine and facial area.

I don't think you are really interested in all of my medical history. It is long and complicated and a constant drain. There are many days, especially when I am under great stress that I almost literally cannot walk and will have to stay in bed all day. I do not have just ONE major ailment...I have MULTIPLE systemic problems.

Yes, my cell phone helps a lot, although the translation is sketchy at best. And although English is TAUGHT in the schools here I have found that only about 20 percent of the people speak it in any capacity. I have a REALLY hard time finding docs. Of COURSE they ALL say they speak english, it is part of their educational program, but trust me....they don't. I am fortuante that my GP is really good at it, so she can usually direct me where to go. But in an area that had over 100 hits for psychologists I was given a list of about 4 that were willing to TREAT someone in english. I do not qualify for most of the "spas" or "rehabs" as they like to call them because they cannot accomadate an english speaker. We did finally find ONE that was willing to take me and it was several hours away.

I was in the hospital for 10 days last year and it was a nightmare. They do not have private rooms and we had 4 women in our one tiny room with one bathroom and one tele. NO ONE spoke english until the very end...like day 8 of my stay, a little old woman came in and spoke it well enough that I finally had someone to talk to. I had ONE of the surgeons that spoke it well enough to let me know what was going on. She spoke for all the rest and did her best to keep me informed. Taking xrays was a nightmare, because I did not know if they were telling me to breath or to let it out. I was never sure. Ordering food was impossible. They came around and asked you what you wanted from a list of many foods. Of course, not ONE of them spoke english and I could not understand what they were saying. Many times if something is written down I can understand it better, but the menu was not written it was spoken, so I just kinda had to take whatever they gave me until the little old lady came along and then she would help me. It was a HORRIBLE ordeal. They brought the wrong meds to me on several occasions and I had to sit there and argue with them in english trying to make them understand that my medication was not right. Usually after getting several different people to try to understand me, they would bring me the correct medication. There was ONE nurses aid out of EVERYONE on EVERYSHIFT that spoke english. Thank GOD for her or I would have been screwed.

I am sorry that I have not learned it in what you seem to think is a timely manner and I am happy that you are not having such a difficult time. But I HAVE tried and am STILL trying. I have tried 3 diffeent online courses and a course at the "folks school" here. I know many words, but have a REALLY hard time putting them together. I did fairly well in the class until we got to "verb klammers" where they put part of the verb at the beginning of the sentence and then the rest at the end of the sentence...and then I was blown away. I became ill with the flu shortly thereafter and missed the last 3 sessions of the class. It was terrible.

When I learned spanish is was in highschool...a very traditional way of learning and I did well. But here it is more the new way of teaching...more by rote. And I just do not do well with that. Factor in that they teach German IN German and I am not even able to ask a question because all I know is english....and it just does not do well. The Volkhochschule was an hour away and 3 hours a day for 3 days a week. So it was a 5 hour slot of time 3 days a week, the stress of the setting triggered my migraines and it was not unusual to come home and have to take a shot and go to bed.

My illnesses make it impossible for me to hold down a job. I was fired from the last 3 I had in the states....brain fog was a lot of the problem. I was a GOOD nurse prior to all this. I have worked in hospitals, clinics, home health and nursing homes with both pediatric and geriatric patients. I have delivered babies. I have worked in ICU. I have assisted in C-sections. I USED to be a normal productive human being and was the PRIMARY bread winner in the family for 16 years. I have managed programs, written grants, kept up with budgets, did public speaking, gave over 5000 immunization in one year as I managed the program that provided them as well. I have managed 30 employees at a time including hiring, firing and scheduling. But I cannot do those things now. I just can't. And EVEN if I COULD do them, my degree in the states would not transfer here. They have a totally different way of education. IF I were to go back to the states I would have to file for disability. I simply cannot hold down a job. I do not know from one day to the next what I will wake up like. If you have never had an illness like that it is really hard to understand the devastation that it can have in your life. THAT is why I was seeing a therapist to begin with...to try to deal with the chronic pain issues and the depression that usually accompanies that.

I know that no one is interested in all my history and I only bring it up to say that yeah...I have tried....I am still trying and I hope to be able to speak it someday. I am sorry I cannot pick it up as quickly as you can.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:14 AM
El186 El186 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
Default

And yes, I KNOW that bigamy is illegal in Europe. I am not sure what that has to do with anything as he is only legally married to his wife. My partner works in the German legal system, so he knows all about it. I was never asking him to marry me TOO. I wanted him to divorce her and marry me. And I am NO LONGER asking for that...so before I get shredded to pieces for being a cowgirl, please take the time to read the earlier posts and see that we have worked out an arrangment that I am willing to live with.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:51 AM
El186 El186 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
Default

Galagirl, that has been one of my considerations in asking him to marry me. I feel that in the event tht he should die that I will be left out in the cold. He has made a paper that states that I am to be allowed to live in the home as long as I want or until I die. It has not been notarized or anything like that, but he SAYS that it would be binding in the event that he should die. He says that THAT is the best he can do for me. I worry that it would not be legally binding and that even if it had SOME kind of legal binding, his in laws would fight tooth and nail to see to it that I will get nothing. There IS no kind of financial provision for me. He says that he cannot do that. So, while I would have a place to live, I will not have anyway to LIVE. His wife and kids will be taken care of. Once again....when I asked him to marry me, this was one of the reasons why. His children will get their inheritance and I certainly would not kick ANYONE to the curb, I TOO would be happy to have them live out the rest of the years in this house, but his wife will have the support of her family (who have asked her to move in with them already). She will be taken care of and if worse came to worse, she is young and healthy and COULD work. I will be here, unable to hold down a job and so will not be able to stay in the country anyway. (According to German law, you have to have a job and NOT be a burden to the system to stay here if you are not married. On paper, I work as household help for him and his wife and I get "paid" about $500 a month and am allowed to live in their home. If I was married, the issue of a job would not matter, I could stay in the country as a spouse or a widow. If he dies and we are not married, then I will no longer have a "job" and will be unable to get a "real job" and unable to file for social welfare.) SO I guess it does not matter. If he dies, I will simply have to leave my life here, go back to the states, live with my kids and file disability. I cannot make him see anything otherwise. If we were married I would be able to stay in the country as his widow and I am assumng would be able to file for social welfare if I could not work. But as his "lover" for lack of a better word, I will have NO rights and NOTHING to fall back on. I will be screwed. The only bright light in that scenario is that I will probably die before he does and it will be a moot point. Otherwise, I will be unprotected...again making me like I am less of a partner in the relationship and she will naturally be taken care of as will his children. I cannot help but feel that my welfare is of less importance to him....:/ We all know that the probability is that he will outlive me. But there is a possibility that he will not. IN that event, the only provision that has been made is a piece of paper that says I can live in their house until I die. He says that is the best he can do for me.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:08 AM
nancyfore's Avatar
nancyfore nancyfore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El186 View Post
Galagirl, that has been one of my considerations in asking him to marry me. I feel that in the event tht he should die that I will be left out in the cold. He has made a paper that states that I am to be allowed to live in the home as long as I want or until I die. It has not been notarized or anything like that, but he SAYS that it would be binding in the event that he should die. He says that THAT is the best he can do for me. I worry that it would not be legally binding and that even if it had SOME kind of legal binding, his in laws would fight tooth and nail to see to it that I will get nothing. There IS no kind of financial provision for me. He says that he cannot do that. So, while I would have a place to live, I will not have anyway to LIVE. His wife and kids will be taken care of. Once again....when I asked him to marry me, this was one of the reasons why. His children will get their inheritance and I certainly would not kick ANYONE to the curb, I TOO would be happy to have them live out the rest of the years in this house, but his wife will have the support of her family (who have asked her to move in with them already). She will be taken care of and if worse came to worse, she is young and healthy and COULD work. I will be here, unable to hold down a job and so will not be able to stay in the country anyway. (According to German law, you have to have a job and NOT be a burden to the system to stay here if you are not married. On paper, I work as household help for him and his wife and I get "paid" about $500 a month and am allowed to live in their home. If I was married, the issue of a job would not matter, I could stay in the country as a spouse or a widow. If he dies and we are not married, then I will no longer have a "job" and will be unable to get a "real job" and unable to file for social welfare.) SO I guess it does not matter. If he dies, I will simply have to leave my life here, go back to the states, live with my kids and file disability. I cannot make him see anything otherwise. If we were married I would be able to stay in the country as his widow and I am assumng would be able to file for social welfare if I could not work. But as his "lover" for lack of a better word, I will have NO rights and NOTHING to fall back on. I will be screwed. The only bright light in that scenario is that I will probably die before he does and it will be a moot point. Otherwise, I will be unprotected...again making me like I am less of a partner in the relationship and she will naturally be taken care of as will his children. I cannot help but feel that my welfare is of less importance to him....:/ We all know that the probability is that he will outlive me. But there is a possibility that he will not. IN that event, the only provision that has been made is a piece of paper that says I can live in their house until I die. He says that is the best he can do for me.

You say that it does not matter any longer that he won't divorce his wife and marry you, then you say you feel less important to him because he won't divorce his wife and marry you...

Why would you stay in Germany if he died?? What would be left there any way? Your kids and grand kids are in the States, so if he died why not come home and get a job or disability and see your children?

Speaking from a wife's point of view (with the husband (mine) in the back ground mirroring my thoughts) you seriously sound selfish. Your only thoughts are about you and getting his survivor benefits and his house, while his wife can just go her merry way....
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:11 AM
El186 El186 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
Default

Nancyfore, I was simply replying to galagirls request as to what provision's were in place for his poly family, of which I am a part. I would want to stay because HE would be here....yes, I know he is not here....but I would want to be near where he was and he has said that if I should die that he would want me to be buried HERE in Germany for the exact same reason. It is NOT that I do not want his family to be provided for. I would just like to be provided for as well and I don't think that is unreasonable OR selfish. We all need to prepare for the future as best as possible. Most of the time that happens through spousal support. It seems like no matter what I say or do on here that there is someone to criticise me and tell me how horrible I am. I came here for help and I AM trying to resolve this. I realize that I am a selfish bitch, but I am trying to do something that NO ONE else that *I* know would even attempt. You may be used to it and it may come naturally to you, but it is not that way for everyone. So, excuse me if I am having a hard time fitting into YOUR world. It is starting more and more to sound like a place where only YOU and the ones "like" you are accepted. You are NO different from the very people that you criticise the most. I am confused....I obviously don't have it all figured out. Instead of telling me how selfish and horrible I am, how about giving me some advice on how I can accept the situation I am in? Others in here have been so kind. I NEED the advice and I sure as hell am not going to be able to find it in a mono group. I feel like it is an "us against them" attitude by many in here and I obviously am "them" although I have lived this life for 3 years and am STILL trying to make it work. Poly does not come naturally to me. I am beginning to wonder if it does for some and not for others. IDK. But I am TRYING to understand it and learn the concepts involved and YES that includes being less selfish.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-15-2013, 11:00 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 905
Default

I am not judging you. That is not my cup of tea, and my name is not God, Buddha, Allah, or any other religious being people worship.

Your partner has told you what he can offer you. I am not that familiar with German law, but if it is anything like some of the laws where I live, then I have an idea. Does he have a will? If he has no will, it will automatically be given to his wife/children first and go down the line of kin, if that was not the case. A handwritten will that has been signed by him, who would be the deceased party, would have legal standing. The problem with something handwritten and not on public record or notarial is that someone can "accidentally" get rid of it. With a public will, it stays with the notary. It must be written in his handwriting entirely (not typed; language does not matter), signed, dated, and the time must be on it. If he is giving you access to property and he does not have the legal right to do so, it might be thrown out. I would not trust something that is not on public record.

I realise you say that no you no longer want him to marry you, but trusting that in the event of his death, that his wife would let you stay in their marital home is a way to get your feelings hurt and get you put out. She might be tolerating you now, but there may no holds barred during a time of grief. When my neighbour's father died, she put his fiancée out of the house and moved in with her husband and children. He did not have her on the will, and there was nothing to stop her from doing that. She was the beneficiary since her mother had passed.

Speaking as a wife, it would bother me if my husband was poly and had a girlfriend that wanted him to not only divorce me but change estate papers, make her the beneficiary, and make it so that she could stay in my home and allow me and my children access if we so desired. That would be biting the hand that fed me and a bitch slap in the face. Being granted "permission" to stay in my home if my ex-husband were to die? Wow. I cannot even wrap my head around that. Even if their marriage is loveless, sexless, in name only...that is still asking or wanting too much. They opened their home to you. He has agreed to a handwritten will to enable you to stay in the house. He wants to insure his widow and children would be taken care of financially. That is the honourable thing to do. I have no idea why he has not offered to include you in the will. I have been to will readings where people bequeathed the maid a sum of money for every year of service. I have been to will readings where the dog was left financially secure. He could add you if he wanted to.

Maybe his wife does not want that and would not sign anything like that. Something is keeping them in that marriage. You seem to be forgetting about the children they have when you speak of what you want. You have children, but when you divorced your ex-husband, I would imagine your children were adults. Divorce hurts children and can impact them. They are used to having both parents there, and while he might not be the most affectionate towards them, he is still there and an important part of their lives.

My advice: you need your own place, and you need to learn the language. I know there have to be some English speaking jobs/careers. If not, tourists would be forced to learn the language in order to visit. I was in Berlin, and I am not fluent in the language. I remember seeing a job posting that specifically sought people whose first language was English or they were fluent in it. That would require you to step out of the comfort zone of their home and stop relying upon them so much. I know you needed to get away from the situation you were in, but it has been three years of the same. It is past time to step it up. I have no doubt the job system is a hard one to crack into. Politics is the way to explain that. That can be anywhere, but people get in some kind of way. I highly doubt that students who relocate from the States and other countries never find employment while they are attending university or study abroad programs. Someone is willing to hire them, and someone is probably willing to hire you. Cindie gave you a link. Check it out.

God forbid, but something could happen today that would cause him to be on life support. His wife would have the right to take him off life support, and there is nothing you can do. What would you do then? You are too dependent upon him/them. It is not his job to take care of you and make sure that you are taken care of in the event of his demise. I am proudly independent. If my husband leaves or passes away, I would still be able to run my household, maintain my lifestyle, and my children would have nothing to worry about. I like having that cushion and knowing that if something happens, I can take care of myself and my children. That is not to say that we do not have wills and all estate papers in order. We have life insurance, too. It is there if I were to ever need it, but I like knowing that I can survive without it. That is kind of we chose to do things. Not everyone agrees with my mentality of loving being independent.

We are all offering you different ways to approach this. He is not leaving his wife for you, and if he did, that would not be poly. Polyamourists do not generally take sides and get roped in by the other lovers. If you want a tip, learn the art of compromise and stop saying "I." I want this. I want that. What about what he wants? What about what those children want? What about what his wife wants? Put yourself in her shoes and stop thinking about yourself for a minute. "I opened my home to my husband's other woman, and she is trying to come in and be the queen of the castle, beneficiary to his estate, and step-mum to my children by asking him to divorce me and marry her. She wants to take my place." That is not ethical. It is self-serving, and you are validating the mono spouse's fears when entering a situation like this.

Ry
__________________
Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...
Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3.5) children.
Closed.

My Blog

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-15-2013 at 02:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
disabilities, relocation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:37 PM.