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  #551  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:33 PM
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pollyanna pollyanna is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
My understanding is that it really is a very personal thing. I don't think you can do it wrong, per se, and I don't know that there's a standard. It's just about laying out very clearly what each person intends to commit to within the relationship. Did a quick search, and this seems like a fine example:

http://brian618.whyayh.com/mirror/bd..._contract.html
that's pretty much the contract I am looking at...with modifications to fit our family.
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  #552  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:40 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I always thought of those "contracts" as part of the BDSM play-experience, a "prop" if you will... Just like restraints or butt-plugs or floggers or whatever else you do. It's supposed to be FUN for everyone, all the time, even when it looks like the sub is not enjoying themselves.

^^ i don't do all those things, just one of them, and it's more like a "kink" for me and not a D/s activity. But i know people, etc...
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  #553  
Old 05-14-2013, 03:59 AM
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I always thought of those "contracts" as part of the BDSM play-experience, a "prop" if you will... Just like restraints or butt-plugs or floggers or whatever else you do. It's supposed to be FUN for everyone, all the time, even when it looks like the sub is not enjoying themselves.

^^ i don't do all those things, just one of them, and it's more like a "kink" for me and not a D/s activity. But i know people, etc...
for those of us in the lifestyle, our relationships aren't play anymore than those of the 'vanilla' world are play or poly relationships are 'play'. As a mistress, I take the gift of submission as an honor and I take my responsibility toward my sub/slave very seriously. While fun IS a rewarding part of the lifestyle, it is much more than that. I take a long time to get to know a partner and to make sure our needs/desires are compatible, just like any vanilla relationship.

Between a dominant and submissive, a contract is an oath of honor where both parties (altho it looks skewed to the dom's benefit I admit) can make their needs known. That contract should be honored by both parties as they would honor any other agreement.
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  #554  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:19 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I always thought of those "contracts" as part of the BDSM play-experience, a "prop" if you will... Just like restraints or butt-plugs or floggers or whatever else you do. It's supposed to be FUN for everyone, all the time, even when it looks like the sub is not enjoying themselves.

^^ i don't do all those things, just one of them, and it's more like a "kink" for me and not a D/s activity. But i know people, etc...
Yeah, of all the possible things that people can do together in D/s, it seems to me that a contract is least like a "prop". I suppose some people might treat it more casually than others, but I would say that, for most, you're absolutely not "playing" any more at that point. You're making a serious commitment to each other. For some, it's probably as significant as a marriage contract would be. And whether you're taking it casually or seriously, it almost certainly *won't* be fun all the time, what relationship is? But that doesn't mean it won't ultimately be fulfilling for all involved... big difference.

BG, it sounds like you're thinking of BDSM as mainly a sex thing? A contract is a form of power exchange, aka D/s, and while sex may well be involved, it's more a relationship style/orientation (depending on howe you think of it, it's likely different for different people) than something you whip out now and then to spice things up, imho.
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 05-14-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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  #555  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:22 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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for those of us in the lifestyle, our relationships aren't play anymore than those of the 'vanilla' world are play or poly relationships are 'play'.
Wrong. You do not speak for "those of us in the lifestyle". You do not speak for anyone but YOU. I am repeating what I heard from OTHER people "in the lifestyle". This "our" and "those of us" when referring to people who practice, live, play, etc. BDSM is very patronizing and condescending, like "those of us not in the lifestyle" CANNOT POSSIBLY FATHOM the "lifestyle".

Also, people CAN practice or incorporate BDSM into their sex-lives as "play" and do not have to LIVE the LIFESTYLE. Just because you LIVE the LIFESTYLE does not make you some kind of ambassador or high-priestess. If God came down from Heaven and appointed you as some such authority, then someone failed to CC me when the memo was sent out.

You telling me how it is for "those in the lifestyle" is like someone trying to tell you about what it's like for "those of us who are poly".

Have your contract and your honor and your responsibility all you want. I'm happy for that, really I am. But do NOT presume to speak for anyone but yourself (and your submissives of course, since that is probably in the contract anyway).
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  #556  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:35 AM
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Yeah, of all the possible things that people can do together in D/s, it seems to me that a contract is least like a "prop". I suppose some people might treat it more casually than others, but I would say that, for most, you're absolutely not "playing" any more at that point. You're making a serious commitment to each other. For some, it's probably as significant as a marriage contract would be. And whether you're taking it casually or seriously, it almost certainly *won't* be fun all the time, what relationship is? But that doesn't mean it won't ultimately be fulfilling for all involved... big difference.

Yeah, well, at least you didn't say "for those of us in the lifestyle". Are you basically saying that everyone who engages in some sort of consensual relationship power role-playing takes it so seriously? You are allowed to declare what those things mean to you, but do you seriously think that everything you said right there MUST apply to all people?


And I didn't say all RELATIONSHIPS are fun all the time. I said that PLAY should be fun all the time. I still maintain that. If you are not enjoying what you are doing, stop, and go do something else. I don't have sex, go dancing, watch TV, and say, "I hate this. I wish I was doing something else". It's people's CHOICES to get involved in a consensual master/slave relationship. If you hate being dominated, don't become a slave. If you like it, become one.

I wish people would lighten up about this. So much uptightness about such a first-world topic.
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  #557  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:46 AM
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Wrong. You do not speak for "those of us in the lifestyle". You do not speak for anyone but YOU. I am repeating what I heard from OTHER people "in the lifestyle". This "our" and "those of us" when referring to people who practice, live, play, etc. BDSM is very patronizing and condescending, like "those of us not in the lifestyle" CANNOT POSSIBLY FATHOM the "lifestyle".

Also, people CAN practice or incorporate BDSM into their sex-lives as "play" and do not have to LIVE the LIFESTYLE. Just because you LIVE the LIFESTYLE does not make you some kind of ambassador or high-priestess. If God came down from Heaven and appointed you as some such authority, then someone failed to CC me when the memo was sent out.

You telling me how it is for "those in the lifestyle" is like someone trying to tell you about what it's like for "those of us who are poly".

Have your contract and your honor and your responsibility all you want. I'm happy for that, really I am. But do NOT presume to speak for anyone but yourself (and your submissives of course, since that is probably in the contract anyway).
wow...i feel this is somewhat unnecessarily vitriolic. I am merely expressing my opinion and experience as well as what I have discussed with others in the bdsm lifestyle and what I have observed. I never intended to be condescending and apologize if my response came off like that. Many people think (as I did years ago when I entered the bdsm realm) that bdsm is just about kinky sex. I actually know folks who have bdsm partners that they never engage sexually.

And I won't apologize for stressing a master's responsibility to protect and honor their slaves. If I had been MORE vocal and less of a coward about what a master's responsibility is and less of an ostrich, a dear friend of mine might still be alive.

And--I never said or inferred that people not in the lifestyle are incapable of 'understanding it'. What I will say is that bdsm IS more than just kinky sex and there are many misconceptions about bdsm just like there are about lots and lots of things in the world, including polyamory.

Last edited by pollyanna; 05-14-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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  #558  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:00 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I suppose some people might treat it more casually than others, but I would say that, for most, you're absolutely not "playing" any more at that point. You're making a serious commitment to each other. For some, it's probably as significant as a marriage contract would be.
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Are you basically saying that everyone who engages in some sort of consensual relationship power role-playing takes it so seriously? You are allowed to declare what those things mean to you, but do you seriously think that everything you said right there MUST apply to all people?
Um? I don't know, does that sound like what I said? Really confused by how you took that, honestly. I really think I qualified my statements about as much as humanly possible there. Obviously it's going to be different for different people (I actually used that phrase later in my post). I was just giving my best guess as to what a contract is LIKELY to mean to MOST people, which is something very different from a flogger or a butt plug. Ymmv and that's fine, I was never remotely trying to imply any sort of One True Way.

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And I didn't say all RELATIONSHIPS are fun all the time. I said that PLAY should be fun all the time. I still maintain that. If you are not enjoying what you are doing, stop, and go do something else. I don't have sex, go dancing, watch TV, and say, "I hate this. I wish I was doing something else". It's people's CHOICES to get involved in a consensual master/slave relationship. If you hate being dominated, don't become a slave. If you like it, become one.
Right, but see, I think for most people (please note the two qualifying statements here -- that "I think" this to be the case, not that I know it as some absolute fact, and that I believe it applies to "most" people, not all people) a contract isn't about play. It's about a relationship and how you choose to structure it. And we're talking about contracts. So that's why I started talking about relationships.

None of that is meant to imply that people should get involved in scenarios that aren't right for them?? Again, really confused by the extrapolations you're making. Obviously it's a choice and you should only make it if you think it's right for you, I truly don't see how I might have implied that I thought otherwise.

But, just like any relationship role (again, I am talking about relationships, not play -- I do get the distinction, and I get that some people can engage in BDSM or D/s just for play, and that's fine, I honestly 1,000% believe that's fine, but I'm not talking about that right now because we're talking about contracts, and I think that most people who get to the point of writing out and adhering to contracts are committing to a relationship style and not just to play), you're almost certainly not going to like it all the time. A person who's committed to being someone's slave isn't going to like being a slave all the time any more than a person who's committed to being someone's spouse is going to like being a spouse all the time.

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I wish people would lighten up about this. So much uptightness about such a first-world topic.
You seem to be getting way more upset than me or pollyanna have been so far, so it's kind of weird to see you saying people should lighten up?

Why do you have the right to a strong opinion, when this isn't actually something that you enjoy as more than play, and yet we're being uptight for having differing opinions, when we've built our lives and our loves around these concepts? Why is this topic less deserving of being taken seriously than, say, poly, that thing that we all expend so many words on every dang day, when in both cases it's about how we choose to love?
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 05-14-2013 at 05:07 AM.
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  #559  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:00 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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And--I never said or inferred that people not in the lifestyle are incapable of 'understanding it'. What I will say is that bdsm IS more than just kinky sex and there are many misconceptions about bdsm just like there are about lots and lots of things in the world, including polyamory.
BDSM *can* be just about kinky sex. Not everyone has to be "in the lifestyle". Not everyone considers polyamory a "lifestyle". You talk about misconceptions - there's one right there: that BDSM and polyamory are considered "lifestyles" by all who engage/share in certain activities, behaviours.
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  #560  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:29 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Um? I don't know, does that sound like what I said? Really confused by how you took that, honestly. I really think I qualified my statements about as much as humanly possible there. Obviously it's going to be different for different people (I actually used that phrase later in my post). I was just giving my best guess as to what a contract is LIKELY to mean to MOST people, which is something very different from a flogger or a butt plug. Ymmv and that's fine, I was never remotely trying to imply any sort of One True Way.
OK.


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Right, but see, I think for most people (please note the two qualifying statements here -- that "I think" this to be the case, not that I know it as some absolute fact, and that I believe it applies to "most" people, not all people) a contract isn't about play. It's about a relationship and how you choose to structure it. And we're talking about contracts. So that's why I started talking about relationships.
I consider that a "play" contract because it isn't legally binding. If one person doesn't do what the contract says, do you take them to court to have it enforced?

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None of that is meant to imply that people should get involved in scenarios that aren't right for them?? Again, really confused by the extrapolations you're making. Obviously it's a choice and you should only make it if you think it's right for you, I truly don't see how I might have implied that I thought otherwise.
Then in that case, the "contract" DOES function as a "prop", because if a person is doing something by choice because it is right for them, a contract is unnecessary. It was unclear whether that was part of your process of reasoning.
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But, just like any relationship role (again, I am talking about relationships, not play -- I do get the distinction, and I get that some people can engage in BDSM or D/s just for play, and that's fine, I honestly 1,000% believe that's fine, but I'm not talking about that right now because we're talking about contracts, and I think that most people who get to the point of writing out and adhering to contracts are committing to a relationship style and not just to play), you're almost certainly not going to like it all the time. A person who's committed to being someone's slave isn't going to like being a slave all the time any more than a person who's committed to being someone's spouse is going to like being a spouse all the time.
I like being a spouse "all the time". Sometimes I get annoyed with my spouse, but i can honestly say that i don't have moments where i wish I wasn't married. Please don't say things like that because when I respond to them I feel as ridiculous as that sounds.

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You seem to be getting way more upset than me or pollyanna have been so far, so it's kind of weird to see you saying people should lighten up
I'm not upset; you and pollyanna did not seem "upset". I am involved in a conversation where I am pointing out things I disagree with and why I disagree. I said there was "so much uptightness" about BDSM in general. That's not the same thing as saying you and pollyanna are "upset", and it doesn't mean I'm "upset", "more upset", etc.

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Why do you have the right to a strong opinion, when this isn't actually something that you enjoy as more than play, and we're being uptight for having differing opinions, when we've built our lives and our loves around these concepts? Why is this topic less deserving of being taken seriously than, say, poly, that thing that we all expend so many words on every dang day, when in both cases it's about how we choose to love?
We all have the right to a "strong opinion". We do NOT have the right to dictate that our "strong opinion" applies to all people who do certain things in their relationships. You see, you are basically saying the same thing, that no one else has the right to speak for you, but out of the other side of your mouth you're saying that because you "live the lifestyle" and I "just play", that you have some authority to declare what it all means. Indeed, this topic is NOT any more or less "deserving" of being taken seriously than any other - which is exactly why I'm taking issue with use of language such as "those of us in the [whatever] lifestyle". People can "lighten up" and still take something seriously - ask any person "in the cancer lifestyle" and many of them will tell you that they have used humor to get through difficult times and still take their health and medical condition "seriously".

Come on Annabel. You're not stupid. You knew that's what I meant. You just wanted to bust my chops because it's, like, a thing.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 05-14-2013 at 05:32 AM.
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