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  #21  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
ok, i'll bite...what's a cowgirl?
A cowgirl is someone who gets involved with a poly person but really only wants them to herself. She attempts to "lasso" her love interest and "herd" him or her away from and out of their marriage or poly situation. They are usually very manipulative, since getting this person to shed their other relationship(s) is their main goal. This can be done in a number of ways. A few examples: badmouthing the primary partner, having hissy fits about what they're not getting from the relationship, making demands about how their SO conducts his/her OTHER relationships, or just finding ways to co-opt most of their target's time. There are cowboys, too, but it seems cowgirls are more common. Basically, they profess to be poly but are really mono and will only be satisfied if they are either the only one or #1.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-13-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:06 AM
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thanks, indie....having lived in Texas so long, that metaphor makes perfect sense.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:56 AM
El186 El186 is offline
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I hear everyone talking about having a meeting and talking about things....getting things out in the open and setting up rules...etc. She does not know that I want him to marry me. She has no idea that he said that he would...or that he has ALWAYS said that he would if it "came down to it". Does she need to know my "previous" intentions...or is that something better left unsaid. I often feel like while he has been honest with her to some degree that he has not told her "everything". She does not know ALL the things he has told me. He has told me that he has looked for me his entire life. That he believes that we have been together in past lives and will always be so. He told me that the greatest thing he had ever done in his life was finding me and bringing me here. He has told me that he loves me MORE than he loves her OR his kids. That I am and will always be his FIRST priority and that he feels guilty that he married her and did no wait for me.....and the list goes on. So sometimes I feel like she has agreed to something that she really knows little about. IS that deceitful to her? Or is it just part of being in a polyamorous relationship...that some things will be secret from the other? Is it ok not to tell her for the sake of peace?

Other than the time that we all got together and decided that they would no longer be sexually active, we have NEVER had a "meeting". All things are negotiated more or less by him. If I have a problem I tell him and he talks to her about it...and thus far it has worked fairly well. But honestly, I have NO idea what he told her in the beginning or WHAT she originally agreed to. There is a SLIGHT language barrier there as well. Not much, but sometimes, especially if she gets upset, she has a problem either speaking or understanding correctly. So that is part of the reason we have always left it up to him. Plus, he knows how to best talk to her to help her understand something. But honestly, she has always been, to my knowledge, a wonderful and caring woman, that has gone above and beyond to make me feel comfortable. If we did not share him...I would WANT her for a friend. But as it is...she just seems to DRIVE ME CRAZY! She is everywhere I go...every corner I turn she is there...everytime I get up to go to the bathroom she is there....every meal she is there....the ONLY time she is NOT there is when we are either holed up in our room or gone! And now she has started to come up to the room more often, telling him that she is jealous that we are up here. As long as we were up in the office it was ok...that used to be the case, but the office is under consruction, so we have had to be in our room more and more...and she does not like that. So it is not unusual for me to go to the bathroom and come back and find her in our room with her hand on her hip telling him something that she is not happy with...:/ It is making me CRAZY. OUR room is the only fucking space in the WHOLE house that is "mine". I just go NUTS when I see her in there. She will call us for supper and then if we are not there immediately she will come find us or call again...not giving us time to finish what we are doing. If we are having a fight she will come to the room to see what's wrong and to remind us to be quiet, because it upsets the kids. But SHE yells at THEM ALL DAY LONG! THAT drives me INSANE when she comes up in the middle of a disagreement. I feel like I have to leave "my own house" just to be able to argue with him. It is just SO hard.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:58 AM
El186 El186 is offline
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awww, Polly....I wondered if you were from Texas...just your references to hun...and honey. That is where I spent most of my life. When I fled the abusive relationship I went to Cali for about 8 months. But Texas is my home...although I have never wanted to be a cowgirl...lol
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  #25  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El186 View Post
I hear everyone talking about having a meeting and talking about things....getting things out in the open and setting up rules...etc. She does not know that I want him to marry me. She has no idea that he said that he would...or that he has ALWAYS said that he would if it "came down to it". Does she need to know my "previous" intentions...or is that something better left unsaid. I often feel like while he has been honest with her to some degree that he has not told her "everything". She does not know ALL the things he has told me. He has told me that he has looked for me his entire life. That he believes that we have been together in past lives and will always be so. He told me that the greatest thing he had ever done in his life was finding me and bringing me here. He has told me that he loves me MORE than he loves her OR his kids. That I am and will always be his FIRST priority and that he feels guilty that he married her and did no wait for me.....and the list goes on. So sometimes I feel like she has agreed to something that she really knows little about. IS that deceitful to her? Or is it just part of being in a polyamorous relationship...that some things will be secret from the other? Is it ok not to tell her for the sake of peace?

Other than the time that we all got together and decided that they would no longer be sexually active, we have NEVER had a "meeting". All things are negotiated more or less by him. If I have a problem I tell him and he talks to her about it...and thus far it has worked fairly well. But honestly, I have NO idea what he told her in the beginning or WHAT she originally agreed to. There is a SLIGHT language barrier there as well. Not much, but sometimes, especially if she gets upset, she has a problem either speaking or understanding correctly. So that is part of the reason we have always left it up to him. Plus, he knows how to best talk to her to help her understand something. But honestly, she has always been, to my knowledge, a wonderful and caring woman, that has gone above and beyond to make me feel comfortable. If we did not share him...I would WANT her for a friend. But as it is...she just seems to DRIVE ME CRAZY! She is everywhere I go...every corner I turn she is there...everytime I get up to go to the bathroom she is there....every meal she is there....the ONLY time she is NOT there is when we are either holed up in our room or gone! And now she has started to come up to the room more often, telling him that she is jealous that we are up here. As long as we were up in the office it was ok...that used to be the case, but the office is under consruction, so we have had to be in our room more and more...and she does not like that. So it is not unusual for me to go to the bathroom and come back and find her in our room with her hand on her hip telling him something that she is not happy with...:/ It is making me CRAZY. OUR room is the only fucking space in the WHOLE house that is "mine". I just go NUTS when I see her in there. She will call us for supper and then if we are not there immediately she will come find us or call again...not giving us time to finish what we are doing. If we are having a fight she will come to the room to see what's wrong and to remind us to be quiet, because it upsets the kids. But SHE yells at THEM ALL DAY LONG! THAT drives me INSANE when she comes up in the middle of a disagreement. I feel like I have to leave "my own house" just to be able to argue with him. It is just SO hard.
Please stop obsessing about she and what she does. First think about who you are and what you want!
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  #26  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:29 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El186 View Post
. . . she just seems to DRIVE ME CRAZY! She is everywhere I go...every corner I turn she is there...everytime I get up to go to the bathroom she is there....every meal she is there....the ONLY time she is NOT there is when we are either holed up in our room or gone! And now she has started to come up to the room more often, telling him that she is jealous that we are up here.
Well, it sure sounds like she is not as okay with his relationship with you as you have been led to believe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by El186 View Post
OUR room is the only fucking space in the WHOLE house that is "mine". I just go NUTS when I see her in there. She will call us for supper and then if we are not there immediately she will come find us or call again...not giving us time to finish what we are doing. If we are having a fight she will come to the room to see what's wrong and to remind us to be quiet, because it upsets the kids. But SHE yells at THEM ALL DAY LONG! THAT drives me INSANE when she comes up in the middle of a disagreement. I feel like I have to leave "my own house" just to be able to argue with him. It is just SO hard.
Isn't it her house, not yours? It seems she has been relegated to being the cook and nanny, and you think she's perfectly content with that. Obviously, she's not. Does she clean up after you as well? Wash the sheets after you and he have been fucking? Her husband doesn't involve himself with his own damn children, keeps a mistress in HER house, whom she makes dinner for and agreed to not have sex with just to make you happy, and has to listen to her husband and mistress fucking and arguing. And you whine about not having quiet or him to yourself. Wow.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 05-13-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:36 PM
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pollyanna pollyanna is offline
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i'm curious. have THEY been poly before you? or is this their first time around also?
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  #28  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:48 PM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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His poor wife:
-Invited a complete stranger from another country into her home.
-Has given up sexual intimacy with her husband because it upset you.
-Has given up having a partner to share a bed with because it upset you.
-Is basically raising small children by herself (with a couple of other adults in the house who don't really get involved because they don't really like kids).
-Is trying to maintain some kind of normal family life by insisting on dinner together (which is healthy for the kids).

Tell me again how you're getting the short end of the stick? I suggest that you get your own house and see where the chips really fall. If he says that if it comes down to it he'll marry you, what do you have to lose? You're obviously not happy in the place you are in your life. So change something! The only person who you control is you. Make choices that are good for you, not choices that are motivated by trying to manipulate someone else into making the decision you want them to.
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  #29  
Old 05-13-2013, 01:01 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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The "dimensions of wellness" is a phrase you can Google and read more about. That one particular link if you click on the types, will give you some suggestions for how to address things in that "bucket."

As far as "ID the things", then "brainstorm solutions" for the things, then sort them into piles for "how long does it take to execute the things" -- that's just how I deal with some of my life problems. To me it's part of SMART goal setting. . Getting it (s)pecific and getting it (m)easurable is the first steps toward organizing a larger game plan.

Quote:
IS that deceitful to her? Or is it just part of being in a polyamorous relationship...that some things will be secret from the other? Is it ok not to tell her for the sake of peace?
That you even have to WONDER? Keeping info from her about the things that could concern her? Lies of omission are lies, hon.

If your partner is keeping things in the dark from his wife, you might wonder what he is telling HER that you are in the dark about. Maybe setting each of you up to "dislike" the other one. Pitting you against each other so HE gets all the cookies and from his POV -- he has it made. Live in GF tending to him, wife dealing with the kids so he doesn't have to do a dang thing.

I'd be leery. Look at the HUGE stress ball you are under. What kind of dynamic do you HAVE over there?

Could keep wondering then. Take it all the way.

It is very easy to assign all your "ugh" on to her -- but you could examine his behavior. Not his TALKING. He may be one of those smoothie talkin' guys that just sliiiiiiide along in life. Examine his BEHAVIOR.

He SAYS he loves his children. But in his behavior he ignores them. This is loving how?
He SAYS he loves you and promises you whatever. But in his behavior he delivers what? OR does he only deliver partials? Just enough to get what he wants from you?
You guys seem to argue lots because you are not getting what you need. Does he negotiate fairly and address the problem? Nope. You get this --->

Quote:
And yes....I am selfish. He has made sure to tell me that.
He does not attack the problem but the person. Which sends you into a brain cloud wondering if your really ARE being selfish? Result for him = you off his back and not holding him accountable to promises made. He's distracted you.

Marriage is something you value. You are starting to feel uncomfortable because that's another promise not yet delivered, it has been 3 years, the NRE has worn off and you are coming to earth to look at your situation NOT with pink fluffy cloud eyes. And you do not like what you find.
  • You basically have to stay in a situation you do not like because negotiating for changes is getting you nothing. Don't like contemplating staying in UGH.
  • Or accept you got snowed for 3 years on fake promises and leave. I'm sure you do not like to consider that either because you want to be able to keep loving him.

When life gives you stinky choices? Chose the one that stinks the least then. To me that would be LEAVE this situation. Your title say you do not want to play anymore -- so get out.

Look:

Quote:
I have no ring...NOTHING to indicate that I am "taken"...and we have agreed that I am. We have agreed that my heart belongs to him ALONE. That it will never belong to another. He says that he will get me a ring...when the time is right. And he is NOT one to lie. So I WANT to believe him, but he NEVER talks about it...we never look at rings. NOTHING.
He wants to control how YOU feel? That you will never love anyone but him? He dangles a ring like a carrot but NEVER talks about it? He's found your button to push to get what he wants. You WANT to believe him. But cannot. So you struggle to reconcile. Because him stringing you along is less than loving behavior. Talk is all pretty. But the behavior is not.

He SAYS he stays home to "side with you" when he avoids family things. But his behavior is what? Avoiding family things now that they know you are the GF? Maybe he whitewashes it as "siding with you" TO YOU but really it is him avoiding listening to his parents tell him he's being unfair FOR HIM.

Then it is really easy for the parents to continue to blame you first -- most people would rather blame the "outsider" than blood kin.Does he keep you away from the parents so they don't know you or your side of the story? Could note how you don't get to share your side to anyone. You are isolated. Awfully handy for him -- he can play "I'm drunk with my affair and the mistress bewitched me" rather than "I am pitting two women against each other so I get all the cookies."

I'm not saying that is what is happening. I'm only going by what YOU write -- who knows what his side is.

But if what you write is the actuality and not your perceived reality? You COULD CONSIDER if that is happening. Because it's sounding pretty weird there.

Quote:
All things are negotiated more or less by him. If I have a problem I tell him and he talks to her about it...and thus far it has worked fairly well. But honestly, I have NO idea what he told her in the beginning or WHAT she originally agreed to.
That's fishy, hon. Sounds too much like "He makes all the rules" -- how do you avoid triangulation when all information goes through him?

I'm not saying you are being abused. But it's weird sounding. Anything else on here ping for you?
http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/u...urphy-2010.pdf

Because your last relationship was abusive -- have you healed enough and regained the skills in relationshipping to stay out of more subtle abusive dynamics? Did you get out of the fire and into the frying pan? Not as bad as the exhusband, but still not good for you?

You are pretty isolated socially. Are you isolated financially too? Do you have finances of your own? Can you go home stateside and walk away from this? Not saying you WANT to right now... but are you even able to if you chose it? Or are you screwed in Europe if this goes down badly? Left without finances to even get out?

Quote:
I guess if I am to depend on MYSELF for my OWN happiness and to do what I need to do to make that happen, then I need to take any response from him out of the picture. Basically telling myself to accept it the way it is, find a way within myself to "like" it or get out of it and start over. Am I understanding that correctly?
No. You do not have to "like it or lump it" type stuff. Under normal conditions, you could always ASK to renegotiate in a polyship for your needs. You can always ASK -- but what it seems like you are doing it blaming her for everything.... or being set up to blame her for everything so he sliiiiiides out of the spotlight for behavior done/not done. Blame shifting.

It doesn't sound like normal ethical polyshipping to me over there if he controls all the information. There's a whiff of weird to it. It is very hard to tell from reading your story if you are a manipulative cowgirl, he's a manipulative weirdo, or what. I don't say that to upset you -- just telling you how it reads to a stranger. There's a whiff of manipulation in there somewhere -- but WHO is doing it?

So my only advice is to work out listing all the things that bother you and try to group them together. Then maybe others can help you to see if you are too close to the trees to see the forest and you are not a cowgirl.

I assume positive intent on your part since you are the one posting for help. The more you write, the clearer it will become. So keep writing.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-13-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-13-2013, 01:36 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is online now
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OP you are one selfish cookie and so is your boyfriend.

I feel sorry for the wife.
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