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  #11  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:23 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Default Berlin: Part 1

I wanted to go to Berlin for a long while before I finally got to. I'd never been there before but something about the place attracted me. A young, fun, freaky, fast, urban and sexy city, it seemed to be the solution to my problem that the country I work in is BORING. But my bigger problem was that I wanted to go to Berlin too badly. I gave it too much importance.

And then as things happen, I meet Greta and it turns out that she lives there. I wanted to go there before I knew her though my behaviour made Nisha suspicious and wonder if my wanting to go there really had nothing to do with Greta.

Greta and I kept in touch online quite a lot after she left India and she had invited me to visit her Berlin many times since. She knew I'd been wanting to go there, it's something we spoke about a lot. But with all the work I had going on and air-tickets being expensive, I didn't know when I'd be able to go.

Then Nisha found a sale online and we bought our tickets to Berlin for a good price. It was a 24 hour sale so we didn't have much time to think about it, we just went with it. I was really exited and happy to finally be going!

When I told Greta that we were coming, she was exited and happy too. Until she realised that Nisha was coming with me. I assumed it was because she might be nervous to meet Nisha so I explained to her that Nisha didn't have a problem with her and in fact wanted to meet her. Nisha had told me so once. When I told Greta that, she seemed to relax and said she was fine with meeting Nisha in that case.

This is when things started to get fucked up. Turns out that Nisha wasn't OK with meeting Greta. She was at one point but her feelings had changed and I had no idea. There's no easy way to explain this in a paragraph without a lot of confusing "he said she said"s, so I'm putting in down in bullet points. It happened like this:

- A long time ago, I was talking to Greta about a fight Nisha and I were having at the time.
- Greta told me she felt Nisha wasn't good for me because of the fight we were having and seeing how upset I was.
- I corrected her and told her that we had our ups and downs but when we are not fighting, Nisha is the perfect one for me. I reinforced this with examples of when Nisha stood by my side and how she makes me a better person and told her that she was the perfect girl I could have ever asked for.
- Greta then said she was a bit jealous of Nisha, I don't remember how I responded to that.
- I told Nisha about it.
- Nisha felt weird but kept it to her self that she didn't feel like meeting Greta anymore.
- I told Nisha that Greta was nervous to meet her and so I told Greta that Nisha wanted to meet Greta.
- Nisha then tells me that she doesn't want to meet Greta and asked me why I told Greta any such thing.

So Nisha was upset that I had told Greta that she wanted to meet her. And I immediately got angry thinking Nisha was simply trying to make things difficult now that we were actually going to Berlin. I can be very suspicious and quick to anger, it's my biggest weakness and I try to control it but I'm not always successful. So Nisha and I fought about this, about the Berlin trip and already I was beginning to worry that the trip might not be as perfect as I wanted it to be.

Greta invited us stay at her house. I didn't think it was a good idea. I know Nisha and I didn't think she would be comfortable staying there. I didn't feel comfortable with the idea my self so I thanked Greta and told her that we'd stay at a hotel instead. Greta didn't like that, she said she'd do anything to make Nisha feel comfortable at her place and that she would be sad if I went to Berlin without seeing her. I told her that just because we weren't staying with her didn't mean I wouldn't see her and she said OK.

Greta and I continued to chat online and she started suggesting/making plans of what we could do there. Places she wanted to show me. Places she thought we could go to to have breakfast. I'm trying to remember correctly now and I might be wrong, but it seems like she included herself in all these plans as if I was going to Berlin to visit her.

I would diplomatically say that the plans sounded good without committing to them. I think that was a mistake, because perhaps that led her to believe that I actually was going there to see her. Then Greta's parents invited us all for Easter at their place. I spoke to Nisha about these plans and invitations and Nisha began to feel left out. She felt that Greta and I were making plans without her, behind her back. She began to feel unwanted and wondered why she was coming to Berlin in the first place.

I did want her with me in Berlin. I wanted to explore Berlin with her. And at the same time I wanted to see Greta. But I tried to force the two together without giving Nisha her space to be OK with it.

Nisha began to ask me about my priorities and I took the question in a wrong way. I thought she was giving me an ultimatum, asking me to decide weather I wanted to spend my time in Berlin with her or Greta, that I couldn't do both. Initially she didn't want to meet Greta and suggested that I meet her by myself. I didn't like that idea, it made me feel like I would be doing it behind Nisha's back. I wanted them to meet and get along.

I wanted Greta to see that Nisha was real and that we were a good couple and that we were really in a poly relationship and that our relationship worked and I wasn't cheating on anyone.

But mainly, all I wanted was to go to Berlin and have a good time without complications and now it was all getting complicated and falling apart and I began to wish I never met Greta.

----------

Nisha might have been new to this (meeting each other's other) too but she handled the situation in a much more mature way than I did. There were times when she asked me what I wanted from the trip and I would simple say, "To enjoy Berlin, that's all!". She tried to talk about our expectations, maybe the possible situations that might arise and all I did was stubbornly argue that I was going to Berlin to see Berlin and that I didn't want anything to go down with Greta and me. I didn't want to think about it. I just wanted to go with the flow, not plan out anything.

Maybe she didn't ask me her questions in the right way but she tried. And what did I do, just throw it back in her face. Make her feel like she was the one making the trip more difficult than it actually was. I was angry, answered aggressively, we fought, we cried, it was just so much torture. We fought so many times about a trip that hadn't even started yet.

I feel like I was really, really stupid. I wish I spent more time and energy trying to see things her way, talking instead of fighting. I wish that I had found this forum before instead of after everything went shit.

I feel terrible. I hate what I did. All Nisha did was try and be good to me, to give me what I wanted. And I disrespected her, neglected her, put her through hell and broke her trust. I feel like a big shit.

----------

In the end, Nisha and I thought that there was no reason for things to go badly. That maybe we were just being overly nervous. So we decided to accept their offer and go to Greta's parents place for Easter. At first we weren't sure if we wanted to go but Easter is the biggest celebrated holiday in Germany, bigger than even Christmas, and we wanted to see how a German family celebrates. It's always nice to be invited to somebodies house.

And because we accepted their invite, we also accepted Greta's offer to stay at her place on the day we land in Berlin. It would was more convenient than staying in a hotel the first day and trying to find each other early morning the next day. So that's what we did. We landed in Berlin, went straight to Greta's place and spent the first day and night there. The next day we left for her parents and spent the night there. When I think about it, I can't believe we actually did that. Most people meet each other over coffee or lunch… we jumped straight into a very deep end without and prior experience… in a way, we asked for it… but that does not justify that I behaved like a total asshole...
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Default Berlin: Part 2

We landed in Berlin on a morning and went straight to Greta's place. Staying at Greta's was a mutual decision from Nisha and me. Our first meeting was friendly, although I think everybody was nervous.

Later that day, the three of us went for a walk. Normally, I walk faster than Nisha. She prefers to go slow and click photographs. Thing is that Greta walks fast too, so she and I were usually ahead while Nisha was behind. Nisha took this as Greta and I trying to separate from her, but that wasn't what was going on. I even walked back to Nisha at times and asked her if she was ok, to which she said yes.

I guess we were all quite nervous, I know I was, and when I'm nervous and act differently. For example, I was walking with Nisha and holding her hand while Greta walked ahead. But when we caught up with Greta, I let go of Nisha's hand. I think I did that so as to not make Greta feel uncomfortable.

I wish I had my head screwed on right. I shouldn't have let go of Nisha's hand or shown her less affection in front of Greta. Instead of making my Nisha feel secure and confident, I chose to not make Greta feel awkward. I think I gave Greta the wrong impression by doing that, made her think she was more important. So there's no one else but me to blame here. I fucked up and I feel like shit for not standing by my woman's side. Still, Nisha didn't mention to me that she wasn't feeling OK.

The next two days passed in a similar sort of way. Nisha seemed to avoid being near me. No matter how slowly I walked, she always seemed to walk far behind me. But Greta would walk up to me if I was alone, and walk by me. Nisha still wouldn't tell me if anything was wrong. And I didn't ask. I assumed everyone was just getting used to the situation.

Then after spending our first three days like this, Greta had a class to attend so Nisha and I did some sight seeing by ourselves. This is when Nisha tried to tell me that she wasn't OK, that I wasn't giving her enough attention. Instead of listening to her, I got defensive and angry. I was stubborn and refused to see Nisha's side. I felt like it was Nisha who was avoiding me, not me who wasn't making enough of an effort to be close to her. We started to have an argument.

During this argument, Greta called to say her class was cancelled and to ask if she could join us. And what did I do? I said OK. In the middle of an argument (which Greta was a big part of), I asked Greta to join us. I can't believe I did that, I disregarded Nisha's feelings. She tried to talk to me calmly and I didn't listen and then went and made her feel worse.

So Greta joined us and we didn't mention that something was wrong. Neither did we get to resolve our argument.

That night Nisha and I booked our transport for the next day, we were going to visit my brothers girlfriend. It got late and Nisha went to to sleep. Greta and I stayed up talking and eventually we hooked up. The next day I told Nisha about it and she seemed like she didn't mind.

Looking back, I can't believe I hooked up with Greta while Nisha and I had an unresolved argument on the table. I've been in similar situations before, where I could have hooked up with somebody while Nisha and I were fighting, BUT I DIDN'T because I couldn't do it while things weren't OK with us. So why did I do it with Greta? I don't know… maybe because we were leaving the next day so I felt like it was my only chance… but even then, I feel terrible that I gave Greta more priority than resolving my fight with Nisha.

The next day Nisha and I left to visit and spend a few days with my brother's girlfriend. And then the three of us returned to Berlin and we all stayed at Greta's place. Then things just got more and more worse. In short, I hardly got to spend much alone time with Nisha. And when we were alone, we fought and had arguments. Nisha started to shut me out and I couldn't keep a conversation decent. I would get angry and shout. Things got pretty bad but I don't think Greta knew. Not once did Nisha, Greta and I sit and talk about what we wanted from what we were doing.

Greta and I kept making out and spending time with each other and Nisha felt more and more pushed away and alienated. Finally Nisha had had enough and she wanted to leave. She told me that I could stay with Greta if I wanted but she was leaving. I didn't want to be away from Nisha, I wanted to be with her. But somehow, I found it hard to leave Greta's. For one, finding a hotel can take up time and I didn't want to waste time looking for a hotel instead of visiting museums and such. HOW STUPID IS THAT? And then Greta didn't like the idea of us leaving. She tried to dissuade us, she didn't help us in finding a hotel and kept trying to distract us when we were searching for one online.

Nisha was very nice to Greta, even though things were fucked up and she was hurting. She made an extra effort for everybody to get along. But when we were finally ready to leave the next day, Greta began to act cranky and she snidely insulted Nisha and me and neither of us said anything back to her. I think we both felt indebted to her because we were her guests. Then that night, after and in spite of her insults, I asked Nisha if I could spend the night in Greta's room.

It's like I was on a brainwashed kamikaze mission, like I was deliberately trying everything I could to ruin our relationship. Nisha was so hurt and angry when I asked her, she started crying and that's when my dum ass suddenly woke up and realised what I was putting her through. I was shocked and scared. I started to cry too. I felt like the world's biggest asshole.

The next day, I booked a hotel. We left a thank you note with some flowers and herbs for Greta and her housemates and we left. I paid for the hotel and everything, it was too little to late but I just wanted to get Nisha somewhere she could relax and I could be with her alone. If I hadn't booked the hotel and left, I don't think Nisha would have ever been OK with me again.

After leaving Greta's, my head started to clear more and more and I realised in horror what I had done. I was a total dick to Nisha and she didn't deserve it. I hurt her really badly, broke her trust, broke my confidence in myself, wrecked our relationship.

I feel like Greta didn't respect our boundaries either. Even after we left her place and I had told her that I wanted to spend the rest of the days alone with Nisha, she called and texted me asking to meet her. At first I thought she might not realise that she's not giving us the space I needed and asked for. But turns out she knew what she was doing, but she didn't care. She said she just had to do it anyway. That really hurt me. I didn't think she'd disrespect my relationship with Nisha so much and do it without feeling sorry.

Nisha and I got to spend the last couple of days by ourselves and we tried to enjoy what was left of our holiday but there was just too much shit already. There was too much guilt hanging over my head and Nisha felt hurt and unloved. It just made me so sad that we wasted what could have potentially been an awesome trip.

------------

What had I done? I risked a perfectly happy and wonderful relationship with Nisha, and for what? For someone who doesn't care about us?

I liked Greta when I first met her but after this trip, I realised that I didn't know much about her. The more I found out, the more I realised that she isn't (or isn't ready to be) poly. She doesn't like the idea of her boyfriend with another girl for one, and she was jealous when I told her that Minu was good for me. She tried to push Minu away and keep me to herself sometimes. I didn't want to be with somebody like that, or let somebody like that into something I held close to me. I was too naive and wanted to believe in a perfect world, but instead I did so much damage to what was actually real.

I broke Nisha's trust, I broke my confidence in myself, I wrecked it. Nisha asked me to show her extra affection when we were in Berlin, that she would need it, and I didn't give her this basic thing she asked for. It hurts and it hurts more to see Nisha hurt so much. I don't trust myself and so I'm scared that I'll do this again.
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:00 PM
Zed Zed is offline
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Default Rebuilding

Nisha and I have been having some amazing conversations lately, pouring our hearts out. And I've listened, calmly this time, accepting all the pain I had caused her. We've started rebuilding what was broken and also re-evaluating ourselves. Why we are in this relationship. What do we want from it. What do we want from being poly. How we could improve our communication skills so they don't break down so easily the next time.

Things have gradually been getting better, but I'm so scared that she'll forgive me and I'll do it again. I didn't mean to do this to her. If I had realised what I was doing, I wouldn't have done it. How am I going to recognise recognise what I'm doing the next time? I don't trust my self and I'm scared of that.

Sometimes I feel like I should walk away and so that I CAN'T hurt her again, but that seems like an easy way out. I want to do the work it takes to rebuild her trust. I want to be the way we were again.

Thing is, I've fucked up pretty bad in the past too, but that was a long time ago during my cheating days. And I'd changed since. I'd become a much better person, thanks to Nisha. And this whole incident made me go back to my old ways. Being reckless, editing the truth, neglecting feelings, being a real asshole. So I wonder if I had really changed or just… I don't know… maybe the real me who's an asshole was just dormant? I know that old habits die hard, but I thought I had killed them hard ages ago…

I've ended it with Greta. I emailed her asking for her side of the story first. She replied nicely but her reply didn't reflect the way she acted. I replied apologising if I had given her any wrong impressions. I also tried to tell her what I thought she did wrong and how her actions hurt us. If she wants to be poly, she will have to change some of her ways too. But I won't be there to do this with her.

I don't want to lose Nisha and I'm not willing to take any risks.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:11 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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As someone who has made many mistakes recently and over the past decade and some change, give yourself some credit and have some faith in your abilities to change and be a better person. I am working on earning my husband's trust back, and there are times when I want to give up. I have felt like I was sabotaging my chances at fully earning it back out of fear of losing it again.

If you walk away from Nisha, that will probably hurt her more than than anything else. My husband left for one day shy of two weeks, and I am one who never cries over living people. I actually shed tears and broke down. It was only 13 days, and it was the saddest 13 days of my life. When he walked in, I held on to him and vowed to right anything I had done to make him feel like leaving was the only option.

Keep working on your relationship with Nisha. Keep working towards earning her trust back. Someone on here said transparency is important. Tell her everything. Even those little things that seem irrelevant to you. I am learning this the hard way.

Sending you good vibes your way, and I am following your journey. I rarely comment on blogs, but I am doing better.

Ry
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2013, 11:00 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Default Faith and Trust

Thanks Ry, sending those good vibes your way too. We have to take responsibility for our actions and realise we can make the right choices if we try.

I was speaking with Nisha last night, and I told her how I didn't trust myself. The thing I'm most scared of is that she'l forgive me and I'll do it again. I told her that perhaps not trusting myself was a good thing, that because I didn't I'd keep a closer eye on myself and what I do, perhaps preventing doing shitty things in the future...

But Nisha said that was absolute bullshit.

She said that it was BECAUSE I didn't trust myself that I fucked up and did those things in the first place.

And I thought about it and I actually agree... I need to trust and prove to myself that I can make the right choices and that I'm not a helpless passenger riding these situations.

I have to trust myself because if I don't, then how can anybody else?

Things are much better with us two again, but it's not back to the way things were. She hasn't forgiven me yet but we talk a lot, really deep meaningful talks. Put away our egos and insecurities and just express ourselves and listen to each other. We've started writing down some "rules" which we think can help prevent communication breakdowns in the future. We kiss and we've been having some insane soul connecting sex!

The thing is, she's my best friend and I am hers, and no matter where we go or what we decide to do after all our talking, we'll always be there for each other.

I know I have to trust myself again but I find it so hard, I can't imagine how hard Nisha must be finding it. But I need to build that trust because until I do, I don't know what I want from all this... I want things to go back to the way they were but it might never happen. And if that's the case, that there's just too much damage to be repaired, then going our own ways seems to make sense. But I know that leaving her would make me miserable and her too... so my thoughts just go round and round... just so tired with all the thinking...

My heart says "love her, do the work and build that trust and never hurt her again". My head questions if I have what it takes to do that...
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2013, 12:17 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Hey, I think you're being a little hard on yourself. I see you made mistakes negotiating your V in Berlin, but your mistakes seem more out of ignorance and NRE (new relationship energy), than out of being a "total shit" or however you are castigating yourself now.

Being out on a V date, as a hinge, especially for the first time, can be a delicate balancing act. All 3 can feel awkward, even if the arms are cordial, even if the hinge is trying like heck to keep things balanced. Your primary may feel like she is due more attention since she's been with you longer. The new partner may feel like she's due more attention because she's new and probably thinks she has more reason to be nervous and jealous than your longtime love does. ( ie: The first time I went on a V date- went out dancing- with my 2 current partners, my new bf felt he didn't get enough attention, even though I really tried to be 50-50 at the venue, and afterwards, shagged him and slept with him in the guest room while my gf spent the night in our bed alone.)

And here you go, not just a one night date, but a whole week, in a strange city, and making your primary live and sleep in your new lover's apartment! Her turf!

Yes, your communication levels sound like they sucked that trip, but you learned from it, and you sound like you're improving! Not trusting yourself now sounds like a rational response to me. It brings self awareness, a kind of psychic self checking, which is good, going forward.
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. --Shaw

me: Mags, female, pansexual, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, 37
We are both open to dating, but no serious other partners at the moment
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2013, 03:44 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Thank you for your support Magdlyn.

Yeah, it was a very complicated and delicate situation and I feel like I didn't handle it well at all. But here's to learning from mistakes and taking it forward!

Last night I was feeling a bit stressed. I called Nisha on my way home from work to ask her what she wanted to do for dinner. Turns out she'd be late at work, so she told me to go ahead and eat something without her. So I took this as an opportunity to spend some time alone at home. I haven't had any time to myself in months and I was looking forward to this.

I ordered dinner, bought some beer and was all ready to turn on the Playstation (yes I still play video games and probably always will, so what?) and have some fun when Nisha called and said she was done with work and would be home soon. That was a slight bummer. As she hung up, I realised it was raining outside so I called her back to ask her if she had an umbrella. She didn't and she usually walks home from work with her laptop, so I offered to carry some from the house and go pick her up. She was happy about that. Score points for me!

But when we got back home, I couldn't help feeling sad/bad/irritated that the night I had imagined wasn't going to happen. Nisha could tell that something was wrong so she asked me. Normally I would have just said "nothing", but this time I thought about it and expressed to her that I was just feeling sad/bad/irritated that the night I had imagined wasn't going to happen and that I really needed to spend some alone time as I hadn't in ages. And Nisha didn't take it badly, she understood and offered to go away during the weekend so I could have the house to myself.

It felt so good! Normally we would have been fighting about something as stupid as this but we were both making an effort not to. I took something from me to express myself calmly and clearly and it took her an effort to listen to me and not feel unwanted or insecure.

I hope that we get better and better at this and its not something we're doing now because wounds are fresh. If everyday was like that, my life would be perfect.
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2013, 05:21 PM
Zed Zed is offline
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We having another fight again, over some stupid misunderstanding during dinner. Sometimes its so depressing when things could be so awesome but instead our stubborn egos make sure they aren't.

Nisha said something I misunderstood because of my selective hearing. So I asked her about what she meant, but she didn't answer my question because she hadn't realised that I had misunderstood her in the first place. Eventually instead of asking each other to explain ourselves, we started accusing each other for saying the wrong thing.

We fought a good two hours, even writing down what we had said trying to find the misunderstanding. We finally did but now Nisha seems more pissed off that we fought in the first place, rather than appreciate that we finally understood where we were coming from. And she seems to be accusing me of giving her a hard time because I hadn't understood which I think is really unfair. There have been countless times when she's taken something I've said in a wrong way and I've had to spend DAYS trying to make her see what I meant. I feel like I'm not allowed to have my own insecurities, that I'm the one who's wrong for misunderstanding something... but when it's the other way around, it's again my fault for not considering her insecurities and expressing myself properly...

Sometimes it feels like she's more concerned about being right than understanding why I've misunderstood her.

Now I'm in a bad mood and just needed to vent. Things ought to be better again by tomorrow morning, after a good night of sleep. We've both been really tired and stressed lately and that's probably why we're just taking out on each other right now.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:21 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Happy sunday!

Woke up still feeling pissed but then Nisha came over to my room (I slept in the guestroom last night) and we talked it out in the morning.

We finally understood each other and where we were coming from. I realised that I hadn't expressed myself clearly last night either, so there was a lot of miscom flying about. We're trying to figure out how we can minimise these miscoms... I guess it's never a 100% unavoidable, but two things I want us to really work on:
1) Prevent miscom as much as possible
2) When we do miscom, step back and understand each other as quickly (and calmly) as possible

We both can flare up pretty quickly at times and when we're angry it's just so much harder to understand each other! I hate when that happens...

Do you guys have lots of miscom too? What steps do you take to prevent miscom in your relationships and how do you fix it when it does happen? Is practice and patience all it takes? I'm curious and would like to know how you'll deal with it. Any advice is much appreciated

Have a great sunday you all! Peace and love!
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I listen to what is being said, and then, I repeat it back to make sure I heard correctly. If I did not, it just gives the other person the chance to correct me and prevent that. We also ask questions if it is something we do not understand. I usually try to phrase what was said in the question. I, too, had selective hearing, and it caused trouble, trouble, trouble. When we talk, I express myself in a clear manner to alleviate confusion. I think about how I want him to talk to me and express his thoughts and feelings. It takes time to get accustomed to it. It does take patience and and understanding. Listen intently, repeat what you heard, and if needed, ask for more information or details. That goes for both of you. Communication is a two way street.
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