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  #11  
Old 05-10-2013, 11:55 AM
Oly1 Oly1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Whereas I was fine a few days ago to listen to her talk about him, I now feel like he has almost broken me down to the point where I don't even want to acknowledge him, just like he is choosing not to acknowledge me.
I think this is the crucial point. He might not want to meet you because his fearful that you might be hard on him. OR, he might not want to meet you because somewhere in his mind he is not dating a married woman. I personally think he, as you've said, doesn't want to acknowledge you at all. And I think that's a problem. A good way to figure our if that's the case might be to ask your wife how YOU figure into their relationship. Do they talk about her life with you? or does he shudder at the mention of your name? If he is pretending the situation is something it isn't (AKA she's single/cheating) neither of the people involved will be happy in the long run.

It's worthwhile sharing some of these concerns with your wife. If she does chose to end it, it should be her choice. It's tricky, cause she might be really into him and in NRE, but I hope for your sake she's on top of the situation enough to see the merit of your concerns and address them.

Do you guys read up on others experiences in open relationships? New partners who will not meet an existing partner are mentioned as a "red flag" in most poly-advice type things I've read. And rightly so, in my opinion.

Also, I identify with the "I always wanted this and now it's here and it's not tasty at all" notion. Me and my wife are also new to poly. I was the one pushing for it. She is the one seeing someone else. I found I am uncomfortable and even miserable. I was disappointed with myself. I felt like a hypocrite. How can I be against this if I helped create this situation? I thought, like you do now, I have to take responsibility. I can't back out now, my wife will resent me, and worse- I will resent MYSELF.

After much deliberation, and writing and reading here, something clicked. I realized I did not have a problem with my wife seeing someone else, but I did have a problem with who she was seeing and the situation it was putting us in (she is sleeping with someone who is cheating).

Once I was clear WHY I felt so uncomfortable, I told my wife I can't live with this relationship, despite still wanting to have ours as an open one. For me "open" means no lies, on either side. She is still figuring out what it means to her, and deliberating what to do with her other relationship. I give her time. I know it's not easy to give up on a new partner, and she needs to figure out who she is and what kind of "open" relationship she envisions herself in. I hope we reach a point where we can agree on a relationship format that works for both of us. But if we don't, it breaks my heart, but I will let her go.

The thing is, I am at peace. I've learned so much about myself and my boundaries in the last month, about what kind of relationships I can and can't do, that I am truly grateful for the experience (read some of my original threads to see how different this is from the suffering of the uncertainty and self doubt stage).

What I'm trying to say is- we are new at this. It is OK to test the waters, and figure out what's OK with you and what isn't. It does not mean you ordered the wrong dish. Think of an "open relationship" as more of a tasting platter. You sample each dish, until you find the one you like. And you hope your partner likes the same dish.

That's how I see it anyway. Good Luck!
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  #12  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:05 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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I live in a world where being involved with a married man is not normal, and in fact, is wrong. I GET intellectually that my BF's wife's knowledge and consent change a great deal. But it doesn't change my emotional response. Just a suggestion for how he's feeling. He may have no thoughts of pretending he's with a single or cheating woman.

To be asked to sit face to face with someone when I've been physically active with her husband would be the emotional equivalent of being pressured into doing sexual things with which I'm uncomfortable. If he were to tell me it's either dinner with her and him, or break up, I'd say, "I've treasured every moment. Bye."

I might also strongly suggest that if this is a hard boundary for them, they stick to dating people within their poly world who feel the same.

I can also see how, for someone not used to this, the demand that, "My husband insists he must meet you," might come across as a bit of a possessive thing, as the husband making sure the newcomer knows his place and that he better not step out of it, knows who's really in charge here. It would certainly feel like the husband calling the shots in this guy's relationship.

I don't get the feeling at all that this is what you intend, but you have to remember, you've invited this man into a world with which he is totally unfamiliar, a world that turns convention on its head and throws everything he knows about marriage out the window. In many ways, he's walking in the dark, not knowing what to expect.
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  #13  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:29 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is online now
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I live in a world where being involved with a married man is not normal, and in fact, is wrong. I GET intellectually that my BF's wife's knowledge and consent change a great deal. But it doesn't change my emotional response. Just a suggestion for how he's feeling. He may have no thoughts of pretending he's with a single or cheating woman.

To be asked to sit face to face with someone when I've been physically active with her husband would be the emotional equivalent of being pressured into doing sexual things with which I'm uncomfortable. If he were to tell me it's either dinner with her and him, or break up, I'd say, "I've treasured every moment. Bye."
What? Are you saying you are currently absolutely refusing to meet the wife of your bf? Because you've been fucking him, it feels "sexual", or somehow extremely violating, to meet his wife? Gosh. You're so afraid of meeting his wife, you'd break up with the man you love, rather than spend an hour or 2 having a coffee with his primary? This is such an extreme reaction.


Quote:
I can also see how, for someone not used to this, the demand that, "My husband insists he must meet you," might come across as a bit of a possessive thing...
No, not "my husband insists," that is shifting blame. If, in the OP's case, his wife cares that he is comfortable, she should tell her bf, *I* need you 2 guys to meet. How can she keep dating the new guy if her darling husband is miserable and just needs a quick meetup to feel much better?

Quote:
... as the husband making sure the newcomer knows his place and that he better not step out of it, knows who's really in charge here. It would certainly feel like the husband calling the shots in this guy's relationship.
This *could* be how *you* feel about meeting your metamour, but again, WHAT? such an extreme reaction, this assumed underground power struggle, just because someone wants to see who the hell their beloved spouse is spending so much intimate time with?

Quote:
I don't get the feeling at all that this is what you intend, but you have to remember, you've invited this man into a world with which he is totally unfamiliar, a world that turns convention on its head and throws everything he knows about marriage out the window. In many ways, he's walking in the dark, not knowing what to expect.
Well, anyone dating a partnered poly woman better face up to the fact she is NOT 1) cheating (which is "bad" but acceptable in mainstream society), nor is she 2) single! She is poly, and in poly, certain new things come with the territory.
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  #14  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
What? Are you saying you are currently absolutely refusing to meet the wife of your bf? Because you've been fucking him, it feels "sexual", or somehow extremely violating, to meet his wife? Gosh. You're so afraid of meeting his wife, you'd break up with the man you love, rather than spend an hour or 2 having a coffee with his primary? This is such an extreme reaction.
I'm not 'fucking' him. I'm not sleeping with him. I have not had sex with him.

I see a difference between fear and discomfort.

It wouldn't be about breaking up over having coffee. It would be more about breaking up over being pressured into something. As things stand now, the door is open because neither of them has pressured me.

Extreme...you're welcome to your opinion. I'm glad that he is a little more charitable in his judgments and in his willingness not to call me names for feeling as I do.


Quote:
This *could* be how *you* feel about meeting your metamour, but again, WHAT? such an extreme reaction, this assumed underground power struggle, just because someone wants to see who the hell their beloved spouse is spending so much intimate time with?
When people surround themselves with others of the same world--be that fishing, poly, a religion--they can forget how things look to those outside that world. In the poly world, this getting together is very normal. I offer how it DOES feels to me (no 'could' about it) as a possibility for how this guy might feel, a possibility that has not yet been put forward. You may consider it extreme. Perhaps OP or his wife considers it extreme. But just as some of the negatives put forth in the other threads about this guy will not help build a good realtionship with him, neither will calling him extreme.

Having some understanding and charity for how others may feel is a better way, in my view, to build good relationships.

Quote:
Well, anyone dating a partnered poly woman better face up to the fact she is NOT 1) cheating (which is "bad" but acceptable in mainstream society), nor is she 2) single! She is poly, and in poly, certain new things come with the territory.
Yes, anyone dating a poly person should be aware of all of that. However, there is a lot of talk about boundaries and limits here, and that sometimes, those needs/wants/boundaries just don't line up, and therefore two people aren't a match. I think Marcus is right on in saying the OP has a perfect right to request a meeting. He and his wife have a perfect right to have that as a hard limit. The BF has an equal right to have a hard limit that he's not comfortable. He's not required to keep dating OP's wife, and he's not required to meet any condition they lay down. If their limits conflict, it's not a match, and no need to call someone extreme for having different things with which they're comfortable.
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  #15  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:49 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Yeah, if I were so scary/upsetting to someone that they couldn't stand to meet me, I'd feel like something was really wrong about the situation. OP, I think your request is entirely reasonable, as long as you really do plan to keep the meeting cordial and appropriate (if you originally wanted an open marriage because the idea of your wife with another man got you off, and you felt the need to inform the other man of that when he might really not wanna know, that would not be cool).

I agree with Mags that, ideally, your wife should care enough about your happiness to be willing to put her foot down on this matter. If she won't, it doesn't bode well for when bigger things may come up. She can find another guy to crush on and make out with if this guy isn't willing to be even slightly accommodating for your comfort.
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  #16  
Old 05-10-2013, 01:56 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Whathappened, mags didn't call you "names". Saying your reaction was "extreme" is not "name calling". It's like "acting cowardly" versus "being a coward". It's a description of something, an adjective. Mags didn't say "you are an extreme person" (which is still not calling names, but closer to it than saying that is an "extreme reaction" or "your words are extreme").

Last edited by BoringGuy; 05-10-2013 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Damn ipod
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I agree with Mags that, ideally, your wife should care enough about your happiness to be willing to put her foot down on this matter. If she won't, it doesn't bode well for when bigger things may come up. She can find another guy to crush on and make out with if this guy isn't willing to be even slightly accommodating for your comfort.
Which is really at the center of the issue. The guy has the right to do exactly what he wants to do. If he doesn't want to meet the OP that's his business and any harsh judgments about him are petty. He thinks its weird to meet the husband of the girl he's dating *shrug*

Annabel made the statement here that I think is really important to consider. There is a conflict between how the OP and Wife feel about the deal-breaker-ness of BF meeting the OP. Which... wait for it... is entirely her prerogative. Maybe they started out agreeing "Yes, it's important that everyone meet at soon as possible" but it sounds like there was some unexpected flexibility in what they agreed on. I'm not aware of what was actually said, just throwing a guess out there.

In my world, when I have an insecurity issue about IV, I need to deal with it. If I can have a conversation with her that will *not* be interpreted as prompting her to alter her behavior then I might do so. If she, in turn, chooses to adjust her behavior in a way that is beneficial to me then that is her prerogative but I am not entitled to her concession. She's not my employee or my cat, she's a fully functional entity who is distinct from me in every way possible. I do not expect that when I'm having an issue she should instantly fall all over herself in service to my insecurity.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:39 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Another thing worth considering is that maybe he doesn't want to meet you NOW, but that doesn't mean he won't feel differently at some point in the future. Some people need more time than others for whatever new things they have to get used to. It's like grieving over the death of someone important to you. You don't say, "ok the funeral's over, time to stop feeling sad."

Yet another thing to consider is, you might offer to be "arm's-length" acquaintances. Meaning, become friends on facebook so you can check each other out (if you are on facebook) - and i would say it just like that "how about we friend each other on fb so we can check each other out, lol". That way, not only do you get an idea of what the person is like (i said "like", get it? Tee hee), but you have a way of contacting them if something important comes up. My Spouse's other partner and i still haven't met in person, but we communicate on fb, and they have been together for over a year.

Of course, none of this is useful to you if the other guy continues to insist on what is essentially don't-ask-don't-tell.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2013, 04:47 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post

My demands or requests to have open communication with the man my wife is now seeing have been flat out denied by him. While I wanted this to be open and honest, she says that he finds the prospect just far to weird and uncomfortable. My wife explained to him that for me, this could be a deal breaker. He called that bluff. When my wife got home from a seeing him (they had made out), she was sad to think that this was the end of it all.

I couldn't stand to see her so sad, but I couldn't be dishonest with my feelings. I explained to her that if things stayed at just kissing and a few dates here and there, I could handle it. After all, she is completely right in that I had helped plant this seed in her head for months.
But, how does your wife feel about all this? Is it important to HER that you guys meet (not because she senses it's important to YOU - big difference here). Do you guys have agreed on veto power? Because that's what the 'dealbreaker' thing sounds like.

If she is ok with you two not meeting for now, why does the fact that you find this hard to handle, mean that she has to break it off?

I've been with one of my BF's for 18 months. I did not meet my BF's primary partner until last week. I had said from the very beginning I would like to meet her. She was uncomfortable. He was ok with that and did not push or pressure anything. When she was ready, we met and it was great. I always knew that he talked about me with her (although I did not realize the extent of that until I met her), just like he talks about her with me and done that all the time we've been together.

If my husband started dating someone who was uncomfortable about meeting me, I would just say that's fine for now and be patient, very patient. I personally do not consider this a red flag at all. But then again, I don't see red flags where a lot of people do see them (and I'm sure I miss some occasionally...)

I also don't think that the fact he doesn't want to meet means it cannot be open and honest. FWIW, I've met my husbands GF on numerous occasions, en she has cheated on my husband since then, and cheats on others. No guarantees, you know
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Last edited by Cleo; 05-10-2013 at 04:50 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2013, 06:01 PM
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If my husband started dating someone who was uncomfortable about meeting me, I would just say that's fine for now and be patient, very patient. I personally do not consider this a red flag at all. But then again, I don't see red flags where a lot of people do see them (and I'm sure I miss some occasionally...)
Someone insisting on a don't ask don't tell arrangement in which they insisted on not hearing anything about IV would define, to a degree, the nature of our relationship. IV is a big part of my life, a lover not wanting any association of any kind with a big part of my life is necessarily limiting our level of intimacy. It's really a self-adjusting situation. CV, for example, is dating a girl and has been for some time who does not want to meet IV. Apparently this gal stated this from the beginning and has never wavered from that course. She's just not interested in that aspect of CVs life. No doubt this has had an impact on the intimacy between she and CV, but it hasn't prevented him from enjoying her company nor has it had any impact on IVs life.

It is entirely possible that someone not wanting to meet IV is not ready to be in a relationship with someone like me. That isn't necessarily what it means, but that could be considered a "red flag" if someone wanted to be alarmist about it.
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