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  #11  
Old 05-08-2013, 10:47 AM
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Galagirl, that is a bang-up idea. I will write something up today and post it here tonight.

BoringGuy, I googled that poem/lyric and the interwebs think Justin Bieber wrote it. I rather suspect NOT. But your point is taken... fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and I deserve to be whacked upside of the head with a trout. If he and I meet and all i hear is the "no, nothing's changed, i just miiiissss youuuu", I will concede that I am indeed an idiot.

Leelee
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:00 AM
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Oh, I didn't know the background... that he has been given permission to have casual sex with men, but falling in love with another woman is a big ol threat to his primary.

I went through this same scenario a few years back. The wife was seemingly semi OK with me in her husband's life at first, but kept putting up roadblocks-- wait til spring when his seasonal affective disorder ended, wait til he found a better job, wait til they got certain home improvements done. Finally when we all met and talked, it came out that she only wanted him to have anonymous Craigslist sex with random guys.

I was glad to finally get the clarity! Plenty of other fish in the sea for me! Yes, the guy in question was all romantic and full of major regrets to lose me. Feh. I need a man with balls and respect and the ability to love others, a true poly guy. Thanks anyway, dude, and have fun with your meaningless MM sex.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:36 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Definitely not justin bieber. I have never heard a justin bieber song in my life and wouldnt quote from one. It's by a local artist you probably wouldn't recognize. It's also 20 years old.
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2013, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post

It's either a match across all players or not.

From my experience, this is a cornerstone of success in poly relationships. If this condition cannot be met or reconciled through some means, hope of harmony is dim.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:22 PM
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Hi there. You know how couples will have their set of rules or boundaries that they agree to when they embark on poly? And then any of their respective additional partners have to assess whether or not, and how, the rules of that one couple would would affect them?

I firmly believe that all solos need to develop their own set of personal boundaries as well. When a couple, or one person in a couple, presents any rules or boundaries that they expect any additional partners to respect or comply with, then it is up to the solo to then present his or her boundaries that the person or couple must also respect in order to be in relationship with them. If they balk, what is there to consider? If you accept their terms without them accepting yours, then your boundaries mean nothing and you set yourself up for disaster and being walked all over.

Have you developed your set of boundaries? If so, what are they? If one of your boundaries is not to be treated like a sex toy, and they have a rule that you can only be be with him for sex and no feelings are allowed between you, then you are obviously not compatible. That is time to say, "Thanks but no thanks" and walk away. Without looking back. It seems that is what you did - but now you are looking back. Have you changed your boundaries? If you don't have a set of boundaries, that is not healthy, and I suggest you figure out and develop them NOW.

Some of my boundaries that absolutely must be respected are: no metamour will dictate the terms of my relationships; I am always respected as an autonomous person who makes my own decisions; and I need to communicate directly with any metamours before embarking on a relationship with someone who is in a committed relationship with someone else (just to confirm what I am being told, and that there is consent for him to have additional partners). There are a few more, and they do apply to anyone I get involved with. Yes, of course I will respect matters having to do with time management, especially if a man I get involved with is a parent. I totally understand if a couple has a specific night designated for them, for example, but no one should be managing any relationship except the people in it. Therefore, things like a wife or gf having veto power or forbidding emotional involvement do not fly with me, no matter how hot the guy is or how good he smells. I have walked away from several hot guys basically because their wives had them on leashes and expected to limit who I could be in relationship with those men, or there was a DADT policy between them. Neither of those scenarios respect MY boundaries, so it's a no-go for me, no matter what!

When you meet with him, the best way to be prepared, IMHO, is to review and remind yourself of your own personal boundaries and ask whether or not he and she have the ability and willingness to commit to respecting them (and, therefore, you).
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-08-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:53 AM
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UGH! I just spent nearly an hour typing out those terms i said I'd write into a reply, and then it wouldn't load. Almost don't have the energy to do it all again... here goes:

Leelee's Terms

His Partner:
Full disclosure to your partner
Direct confirmation from her (email, phone, or in person) that these terms are ok with her
Preferably -- let me meet her
Ideally -- socialize with the two of you occasionally


His engagement with my life:
Email, text, or phone contact, at least every 3 days
Be willing to hear about my life events; share yours
Take an interest in my plans, hopes, dreams; share yours
Be willing to meet my kids if the opportunity ever arises

Time together:
Make time for me at least 3X a month (we both have significant time constraints, this is not solely his issue)
Only one of those 3 meetings can be at Oasis (a sex club he likes and I don't like)
Have permission to spend time together without having sex (for e.g. go out for a drink after work)
Have permission to go for dinner or to a cultural event with me occasionally (this was one of his GF's dealbreakers)
Come to my house within 3 weeks of making this agreement (he has never been to my house. However we do live more than an hour's drive apart)

Make me a priority, consistent with the degree to which our time together enriches your life and makes you happy. This may mean "manning up " and defending our time together when other people are trying to book you to do stuff on our time, or reinforcing to your partner that having me in your life is a need that YOU want met
Ideally -- have permission to go away with me on an overnight, e.g. to the cottage. Your GF is welcome to come too.

Emotional connection:
Do not spout, ascribe to, secretly ascribe to, or profess to your girlfriend any bullshit re: avoiding emotional involvement in this relationship. Be emotionally available, be attached, and have the balls to act like you're attached to me.

Ok, that's the rough rewrite ... thoughts?
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:12 AM
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It's nice how you separated your non-negotiables from your ideals; showing some good self-awareness and obvious introspection.

To add: If you're anything like me, I like to feel like my relationships are "progressing" - so assuming your absolutely-must-be-respected boundaries aren't crossed, maybe I'd think about adding a timeline/deadline for the other things I'd preferably want. Can be explicitly stated if you desire. Depends on where or how long you want this to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leelee22
If he and I meet and all i hear is the "no, nothing's changed, i just miiiissss youuuu", I will concede that I am indeed an idiot.
Beating yourself up for having hope when you've made measures to protect yourself if those hopes are dashed doesn't make you an idiot. It just makes you hopeful. After all, "it's just a conversation, for heaven's sake."
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2013, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leelee22 View Post
UGH! I just spent nearly an hour typing out those terms i said I'd write into a reply, and then it wouldn't load.
Make sure whenever you login here that you check the little box that says "Keep me logged in" or however it is worded. Then your posts won't time out while you are writing long ones.


It's a good start! I think you should take out all the instances where you've written "have permission." That sounds like you are requesting those things from his GF and not him, and that you are saying she is in control of him. Just state what you want from him. It's up to him to manage how he is going to meet your terms, if he is willing. If she has his balls in her purse, that's his problem. He will have to do his renegotiating with her if he is going to meet your terms, but you can't really tell him to "get permission." That just sounds like he's 12 years old and needs a note from mommy. And when you say "I want you to get permission to do such-and-such" you are not acknowledging that it is his own choice in the matter.

Here is how I would re-word what you wrote (my changes will be in bold):

Quote:
Originally Posted by leelee22 View Post
Leelee's Terms

Full disclosure to your partner
Direct confirmation from her (email, phone, or in person) that these terms are ok with her
Face to face meeting with her, either with or without you
[I took out the "occasional socializing" bit because IMHO you can't really expect or force that. Healthy, respectful metamour relationships can still work very well without socializing together. It's great if it happens, but I wouldn't make it a necessity. That's just my take on it, so I thought I'd throw it out there to you, but if it's very important to you, then by all means leave it in.]

His engagement with my life:
Email, text, or phone contact, at least every 3 days
Be willing to hear about my life events; share yours
Take an interest in my plans, hopes, dreams; share yours
Be willing to meet my kids once trust and a commitment is established [you should be in control of when that happens]

Time together:
Make time for me at least 3X a month (we both have significant time constraints, this is not solely his issue)
Only one of those 3 meetings can be at Oasis, but is not required (a sex club he likes and I don't like) [IMO,why agree to go at all if you don't like it?]
Spend quality time together without having sex (e.g. go out for a drink after work) [you do not say how often you want to do this! If he only can see you 3x/mo., how about at least once a month, you agree to non-sexual activities?]
Go for dinner or to a cultural event with me occasionally (this was one of his GF's dealbreakers)
Come to my house within 3 weeks of making this agreement (he has never been to my house. However we do live more than an hour's drive apart)

When we have plans to be together, stick to them and do not cancel unless there is an emergency. To be in relationship with me, I must be a priority, consistent with our mutual emotional investment and the amount of time we can spend together. Do not expect me to acquiesce and rearrange my schedule if other people want to book time with you that has already been booked for me.

Reinforce to your partner that having me in your life is a need that YOU want met.

Go away with me on an occasional overnight, e.g. to the cottage. Your GF is welcome to come too.


Emotional connection:
Be honest and upfront with your GF regarding any emotional involvement with me. Do not make me a dirty little secret. Be emotionally available, attached, and out about it.
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Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 05-09-2013 at 01:53 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2013, 07:37 AM
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Alternatively, just use word and then copy and paste....I don't trust website with myyyyyyyy precioussssssssssssssssssss....

Nice list, with good boundaries, good luck with the conversation Leelee!

Natja
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  #20  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:20 AM
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leelee22 leelee22 is offline
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Thanks, Natja and NyCindie.

Spot-on about the "permission" comments. This guy is even more shy than me and just as unassertive. I think he tends to fall back on "GF won't let me" when he really means "I'm afraid to ask her"; I shouldn't put up with that.

She is unlikely to accept a face-to-face meeting (she thinks I'm too far beneath her -- this woman thinks I am a whore -- for no good reason, I might add; this is not a relationship that grew out of a concealed affair, they were open when I met him). I think ex-BF would reject the whole proposal if he thought he had to convince her to meet me. So I will have to ponder that one. But all the rest of the changes make very good sense

Will let you know how it goes...
L
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